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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Chapter of the Week: Under Hill
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Riven Delve
Grey Havens


Mar 13 2014, 5:17pm

Post #26 of 36 (78 views)
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See? Cats16 has secretly been taking it all along! :D // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


“It was not Joy itself but its presence in a biological organism comprised largely of water, nitrogen and carbon that constituted the greatest puzzle. That we dream and wish at all is a powerful element of the case for belief that myths communicate some truth that cannot be communicated any other way.” --Alan Jacobs, The Narnian



Kim
Valinor


Mar 13 2014, 8:52pm

Post #27 of 36 (75 views)
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Absolutely! [In reply to] Can't Post

We welcome guest lecturers too. Wink

“As such, you will address His Majesty as His Majesty, the Lord of Silver Fountains, the King of Carven Stone, the King Beneath the Mountain, the Lion of Erebor, the High King of the Dwarves, the True Treasure of Erebor, the Face that Launched 10,000 Sighs, or Thorin the Majestic..."

http://newboards.theonering.net/forum/gforum/perl/gforum.cgi?post=719226;sb=post_time;so=DESC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed


cats16
Tol Eressea


Mar 13 2014, 10:56pm

Post #28 of 36 (69 views)
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Gah! I didn't even reply to my own thread... [In reply to] Can't Post

Knew I was forgetting something. CrazyAngelic

My responses shall be forthcoming in the near future.


Kim
Valinor


Mar 13 2014, 11:28pm

Post #29 of 36 (64 views)
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I thought something was missing [In reply to] Can't Post

we must have distracted you with our Thorin hijacking. Laugh

“As such, you will address His Majesty as His Majesty, the Lord of Silver Fountains, the King of Carven Stone, the King Beneath the Mountain, the Lion of Erebor, the High King of the Dwarves, the True Treasure of Erebor, the Face that Launched 10,000 Sighs, or Thorin the Majestic..."

http://newboards.theonering.net/forum/gforum/perl/gforum.cgi?post=719226;sb=post_time;so=DESC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed


cats16
Tol Eressea


Mar 14 2014, 12:31am

Post #30 of 36 (58 views)
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*That's* what it was, for sure. // [In reply to] Can't Post

Laugh


cats16
Tol Eressea


Mar 14 2014, 12:51am

Post #31 of 36 (69 views)
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Ok, some thoughts back at...myself. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

Chapter of the Week: Under Hill


We begin this segment by witnessing Bilbo’s choice to turn back, and his conversation with Bofur about being a part of the ‘team’.

1. What do you think of this scene, on an emotional level as well as narrative?
We finally see Bilbo say 'enough'. He doesn't feel like he's one of them. I don't think he fully thought out how he would get back to Rivendell. His main thought was that he could *not* go forward with the dwarves. The Baggins in him took over.

2.How ‘bout that Jimmy Nesbit? Are you a Bofur fan? How do you see his relationship with Bilbo, both after AUJ/DOS, and going into TABA? Any predictions/theories about the final film?
Bofur is great. I love the great diversity in personalities that we see in the dwarves. Bofur reminds me of the funny, cool and approachable uncle of a family. He can relate to about anyone, and is very understanding. I also think that Bofur will be the dwarf that Bilbo sends to sleep in order to allow him the opportunity to sneak off with the Arkenstone.

3. Taking a step back: what are your thoughts on Thorin’s choice to push onward—without Gandalf? Does DOS give us anymore to consider here?
It seems to be a habit of his: doing what he wants, when he wants, regardless of the opinion of another person. It's strange that he seems to disregard the benefits of Gandalf's presence. But, I suppose a lot of this comes down to pride and disillusionment.

4. How about the ‘technicals’? Any thoughts on the cinematography/production design/score/costuming/sound design/anything else?
I think the lighting within the cave is interesting. It's surprisingly bright. I would have guessed that it would have been much scarier (yet also good enough to use as shelter). Although, it also lulls them into a false sense of security. So maybe I should rethink the above sentences. Cool

The scene loses its cool soon. Bilbo, about to leave the dwarves, is horrified when Bofur points out to him that Sting is glowing blue. Then...those darned trap doors open. And we go down, DOWN to Goblintown (couldn’t resist! Cool)

5. What are your thoughts on this book-to-film change?
I think it is a little over the top. Perhaps a trap door, opened by the Goblins themselves by hand, could have come across as more plausible. That would have been more akin to the 'crack' that appears in the book (which I would have loved to see, also).

6. Putting your answer for #5 aside, how do you feel that this moment works on its own cinematically (let’s not start the physics debate again)? Is it too OTT? Anything else worthy of consideration?
Again, a little OTT. I think if the fall had been shorter, it would have not seemed so cartoon-like.

7. What are your thoughts on the execution of the trap door sequence, technically speaking? CGI? Camera work? Sound??
Lots of echoes heard in this sequence. I think the camera work also gives us an idea of how far down Goblintown is into the mountain. I did think that the CGI looked somewhat artificial, in terms of lighting. The orange-green glow looks a little plastic. Nothing huge, though.

And here come the nasty Goblinses. The Company is violently captured and marched across a rickety wooden bridge. Bilbo somehow slips by unnoticed (besides Nori), and watches them from behind.

8. What were/are your initial/current thoughts on the overall design of the goblins and/or Goblintown? Any comments on the production design or CG environments? How about the CG creature work on the goblins?
The more I see the film, the more impressed I become with the CG work on the goblins. I think they blend wonderfully with their environment. The design of Goblintown itself, while not like anything I anticipated, did work for the most part. I think some of the camera work was a little to 'swoopy', though. The CG dwarves did seem a little too fluid in their movements across the catwalks. But, I think it's an incredible achievement nonetheless.

11. Give a brief description of your vision of Goblintown, before seeing the film (if you read the book beforehand).
Said this a few posts upthread. Very claustrophobic and tunnel-filled. I'm sure this was a very difficult section of the book to adapt. But, there's always that part of me that wonders how the book version would have translated. But I disgress. It works.

Just as Bilbo thinks he’s in the clear...thud. Mister ugly Goblin comes from above and causes quite a ruckus. The two duel, and both fall over the precipice.
12. Who didn’t jump in the theater when the Goblin appeared?!?! Laugh
I jumped...pretty high the first time. CrazyBlush

13. In one word, describe Bilbo’s fighting tactics: _____________.
Panicked.

18. How about cinematography? Do you have a favorite shot, based on its technical merits?
I really like the shot near the end of the scene, when Bilbo, hiding, watches the goblins march the dwarves to the Goblin King. It's a quick dolly move that really gives us a great perspective of what both Bilbo is seeing and the dwarves are experiencing. It's one of my favorite shots. A great look at the cavernous Goblintown, too.




Starglass
Rivendell


Mar 14 2014, 1:42am

Post #32 of 36 (68 views)
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Okay, now I'm ready [In reply to] Can't Post

Now that my 13 page lesson plan with explanations, narrative reflection paper, and class presentation are out of the way I'm ready to answer these questions. Sorry for being a little late!

1. What do you think of this scene, on an emotional level as well as narrative?

Poor Bofur. All of a sudden we understand how much this journey means to the dwarves; they really feel as if they 'don't belong anywhere' and you can see that it's very personal to them, even dwarves like Bofur who may not(?) have been there when the dragon came. It's also interesting to see Bilbo hurting feelings here. Usually he's on the receiving end so it's interesting to see the tables turned.

2.How ‘bout that Jimmy Nesbit? Are you a Bofur fan? How do you see his relationship with Bilbo, both after AUJ/DOS, and going into TABA? Any predictions/theories about the final film?

I love Bofur/Jimmy Nesbit. He combines silly and sweet and I love to see him with Bilbo. I missed him in DoS but i hope that he'll do more with Bilbo in TABA as others were mentioning.

3. Taking a step back: what are your thoughts on Thorin’s choice to push onward—without Gandalf? Does DOS give us anymore to consider here?

In DoS I think it's more time urgency than anything else. However, I think it does show that Thorin is independent and considers himself the leader to enough of a degree to go on without Gandalf. I wonder if part of it stems from his past. He's obviously resentful of the elves not offering to help. It was a time when he and the other dwarves had to depend on themselves and maybe falls back into that pattern now, trying to depend on others as little as possible.

4. How about the ‘technicals’? Any thoughts on the cinematography/production design/score/costuming/sound design/anything else?

Nothing really come to mind at the moment.

5. What are your thoughts on this book-to-film change?

Oddly, that's the only book-to-film change that I noticed my first viewing. I hadn't read the book in about ten years and was just a kid then so I didn't remember too much. But I had a vivid memory of this scene and just knew it was different in the movie. It didn't really bother me, though. I was just curious to see where it went.

6. Putting your answer for #5 aside, how do you feel that this moment works on its own cinematically (let’s not start the physics debate again)? Is it too OTT? Anything else worthy of consideration?

Well, it is quite a bit over the top. I did like the effect of the crack snaking along the floor, though.


7. What are your thoughts on the execution of the trap door sequence, technically speaking? CGI? Camera work? Sound??

As I think some others have said, the camera was dizzying! Other than that every time I see this part i can't help but think of Harry Potter 2 (for those who've seen it) when Ron and Harry go sliding down into the chamber of secrets.

8. What were/are your initial/current thoughts on the overall design of the goblins and/or Goblintown? Any comments on the production design or CG environments? How about the CG creature work on the goblins?

My first thoughts on Goblintown (as mentioned above, this was the only part of the book that I remembered well) was "it's too populated!' "And too bright!" I still sort of feel that way, but I've come to enjoy Goblintown for what it is. The goblins are very creepy and well done, different from how I expected, but I wasn't really disappointed.

9. Anything in particular that always catches your eye in this sequence? Anything new that you’ve noticed this time around? Something you would like to forget/not see next time?

Well, it took me a few viewings to notice that Nori saw Bilbo sneak away and kept looking back.

10. Anything to say about the score here—any connections to DOS that you now see (motifs, themes, etc.)?

Unfortunately, I don't have a copy of the score or the DVD at the moment. (Shocking, I know. I'm fixing that!)

11. Give a brief description of your vision of Goblintown, before seeing the film (if you read the book beforehand).

Well, I pictured very dark, narrow, cave-like tunnels. No other goblins other than the ones that had captured the party until they reached the King. Then I pictured the tunnels opening up more into a cavernous space, but still very dark.

12. Who didn’t jump in the theater when the Goblin appeared?!?!

I honestly don't remember, but I probably did.

13. In one word, describe Bilbo’s fighting tactics

Desperate

14. Jumping a bit ahead: How do you feel about this fight leading Bilbo to Gollum? Does it work for you? Did the writers have other options, assuming the Goblin didn’t attack him?

Well, Bilbo's long fall seemed a little OTT, but it did nicely set up the introduction to Gollum with him waking up and wondering where he was and what that creature was hanging around nearby!

15. The music really seems to ramp up here. Any thoughts on the music’s role in creating tension? What is Howard up to here?

Again, I can only make general comments, but I love the music overall and think it is very good at creating tension or setting the atmosphere in any setting.

Oh, and here's a shot of Thorin--for those of you who were only really interested in this because of him

Hehe. Thanks! I wasn't only interested because of him, but it certainly helps! (And it greatly extended your thread! Tongue)

16. What are your thoughts on Bilbo’s character growth throughout this scene? Something you wish had been done differently/expanded upon?

Something I've always wondered is what Bilbo would've done if he hadn't fallen down with the goblin. He was just getting ready to abandon the dwarves before they all fell through the crack. Would he have stuck to that plan and tried to find a way out for himself, leaving the dwarves to their fate? Or would he have tried to find them to see what was going on and help in whatever we he could?

17. Any favorite lines of dialogue?

I love the whole conversation between Bofur and Bilbo.

I think I'll leave my answers there. Thanks for a great round of questions!


BlackFox
Valinor


Mar 14 2014, 3:25pm

Post #33 of 36 (57 views)
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What would have Bilbo done? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Something I've always wondered is what Bilbo would've done if he hadn't fallen down with the goblin. He was just getting ready to abandon the dwarves before they all fell through the crack. Would he have stuck to that plan and tried to find a way out for himself, leaving the dwarves to their fate? Or would he have tried to find them to see what was going on and help in whatever we he could?

I think he would have gone for the latter. We can see him take out his sword and prepare to follow the dwarves and their captors before the goblin shows up, so, yeah, I have faith in Bilbo. Smile

"Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere." - Albert Einstein


Starglass
Rivendell


Mar 14 2014, 5:53pm

Post #34 of 36 (45 views)
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That's my opinion too. :) [In reply to] Can't Post

 


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Mar 18 2014, 4:53pm

Post #35 of 36 (31 views)
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I found some tidbits for our Geekky Observations List here! THANKS! :D // [In reply to] Can't Post

 



6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observation List - November 28, 2013
3rd draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observation List - January 2, 2014



sample

"There is more in you of good than you know, child of the kindly West."

I'm SO HAPPY these new films take me back to that magical world!!



TIME Google Calendar
TORn's Geeky Observations Lists (updated soon)


cats16
Tol Eressea


Mar 18 2014, 7:15pm

Post #36 of 36 (29 views)
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Glad to hear it! :) // [In reply to] Can't Post

Smile

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