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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
(BOOK SPOILERS) Gandalfs reaction of Thorins Dragon sickness and dea......

boldog
Rohan


Mar 13 2014, 9:16am

Post #1 of 4 (2205 views)
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(BOOK SPOILERS) Gandalfs reaction of Thorins Dragon sickness and dea...... Can't Post

Seeing How much Gandalf is behind Thorins quest, wouldnt Thorins fate, seem as if it was somewhat in Gandalfs hands?
He is the one that Urged Thorin to march on erebor, and he is the one that gave him the map and key. Basically if it wasn't for Gandalf, Thorin would have died in the prancing pony Laugh. But anyway, seeing how responsible he is to Thorin, wouldnt he be very upset, to see him turn so bad? Elronds words, which Gandalf strongly disagreed against, actually came true. How do you reckon Gandalf will react to this? Will he be present during the political debates? Will he try and persuade Thorin to stop? Or will he show his frustration, like when he walked away at the trollshaws?

And also, his reaction to Thorins death? He will undoubtedly be upset, as it could have easily been avoided if he had been there the whole time. Will He share any last emotional words with Thorin?

I can also see Gandalf in this particular scene, after Thorins confession to Bilbo, Hugging Bilbo in comfort, letting out a few tears himself.

Such depressing stuff to come Frown thoughts on this?

"And do you really think, Thorin Oakenshield, that Bolg will have the slightest symphony for you? After he watched you hack his fathers hand off, so ruthlessly in Moria. Azogs defeat has brought nothing to you, only refuelled hate of his kin, upon yours"


AshNazg
Gondor


Mar 13 2014, 1:42pm

Post #2 of 4 (1837 views)
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Gandalf will need to be kept busy... [In reply to] Can't Post

First I want to say, your title needs to be changed, this is not just "book" spoilers and also you practically spelled out "death". The point is to hide spoilers not hint at them.

What interests me is what Gandalf gets up to during the battle. In Azog's attack in AUJ Gandalf is kept busy by having him dangle off a cliff from a burning tree while holding 2 dwarves on his staff. So that Thorin can fight Azog without Gandalf interfering.

What's he going to be up to in the Bo5A? Is the Necromancer going to be there? If so, why? And where does he get his power after losing the battle at Dol Guldur?

Whatever happens, Gandalf will need to be taken out of the picture, fighting Ringwraiths or something, while Thorin, Fili and Kili fight Azog and Bolg. I don't really think Gandalf will blame himself for that, no-one suspected Sauron until long after Gandalf sent Thorin on his quest. Maybe he'll say some words like "If I had known the enemy was behind this I would never have encouraged your quest" or something.

As for Thorin's dragon sickness. I don't even know what that is or if it exists. In my mind Thror and Thrain went mad with greed because of the dwarven ring, not because of any sickness and I'm still hoping that that turns out to be the case in the films too. "Dragon sickness" in my opinion is just what the characters are calling the unexplainable greed, because they don't yet know about the ring and its effects. Thorin's greed stems from somewhere else, a self-fulfilling prophecy, perhaps.


Starglass
Rivendell


Mar 13 2014, 3:23pm

Post #3 of 4 (1789 views)
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I'll try to reply to both of you [In reply to] Can't Post

In response to boldog, I think Gandalf will definitely be sad at the turn of events. If he returns during Thorin's dragon sickness (as he does in the book) he will almost certainly show his displeasure, though I don't think it will last for long since the orcs attack soon after.

Gandalf will certainly be saddened by Thorin's death, but I don't think he will feel guilty and I don't really think he should. At the end of it the orc attack that caused the battle (and Thorin's death) was more or less out of their control. I don't think Gandalf could have prevented it even if he had been there the whole time. However, if Gandalf and Bilbo cry together i will lose it (and I'll be crying regardless Frown).


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I don't really think Gandalf will blame himself for that, no-one suspected Sauron until long after Gandalf sent Thorin on his quest. Maybe he'll say some words like "If I had known the enemy was behind this I would never have encouraged your quest" or something.


But I think Gandalf was beginning to suspect Sauron. I think part of the reason that he encouraged Thorin to go was because he didn't like the thought of a dragon around if Sauron returned. Remember what Galadriel said in AUJ "The dragon has long been on your mind" to which Gandalf responds "If he should side with the enemy...'? He's trying to prevent that.


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What's he going to be up to in the Bo5A? Is the Necromancer going to be there? If so, why?



I agree that Gandalf will most likely be busy in Bo5A and will be apart form Thorin, but I really hope the Necromancer is not there! I don't think he will be. Gandalf said in DoS that he wasn't ready to show himself yet and coming to the battle would be too obvious if he wants to stay undercover.

Well, my post is all over the place, but I hope some of it makes sense and answers your questions!


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Mar 13 2014, 3:49pm

Post #4 of 4 (1834 views)
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Dragon Sickness [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
As for Thorin's dragon sickness. I don't even know what that is or if it exists. In my mind Thror and Thrain went mad with greed because of the dwarven ring, not because of any sickness and I'm still hoping that that turns out to be the case in the films too. "Dragon sickness" in my opinion is just what the characters are calling the unexplainable greed, because they don't yet know about the ring and its effects. Thorin's greed stems from somewhere else, a self-fulfilling prophecy, perhaps.



Legends of dragon sickness would have been around since the First Age and the cursed hoard of Glaurung. Technically, neither Thror nor Thrain were victims of dragon sickness, but (as you say) were driven by the greed enhanced by their Ring of Power. Gandalf probably hoped that Thorin, deprived of the Dwarven Ring, would not fall victim to the same greed. Unfortunately, Smaug's hoard seems to make up for the Ring's lack. The Master of Lake-town, already prone to greed, also fell victim to the dragon sickness.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring

 
 

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