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Let's get trivial... HOW LONG IS AN ENT-STRIDE?

Bracegirdle
Tol Eressea


Mar 10 2014, 12:43am

Post #1 of 12 (301 views)
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Let's get trivial... HOW LONG IS AN ENT-STRIDE? Can't Post

Specifically Treebeard's stride....

From World's End then he turned away,
and yearned again to find afar .
his home through shadows journeying,
and burning as an island star . . .

-Bilbo Baggins


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Mar 10 2014, 1:23am

Post #2 of 12 (197 views)
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15 twig-units, for the larger Ents. [In reply to] Can't Post

Smaller ones or those with knobby knees are lucky to stride beyond 10 TUs.

Angelic

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Darkstone
Immortal


Mar 10 2014, 2:46am

Post #3 of 12 (184 views)
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36 entches, of course! / [In reply to] Can't Post

 

******************************************
Brothers, sisters,
I was Elf once.
We danced together
Under the Two Trees.
We sang as the soft gold of Laurelin
And the bright silver of Telperion,
Brought forth the dawn of the world.
Then I was taken.

Brothers, sisters,
In my torment I kept faith,
And I waited.
But you never came.
And when I returned you drew sword,
And when I called your names you drew bow.
Was my Eldar beauty all,
And my soul nothing?

So be it.
I will return your hatred,
And I am hungry.




Bracegirdle
Tol Eressea


Mar 10 2014, 3:36am

Post #4 of 12 (179 views)
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Nice try [In reply to] Can't Post

Very Clever Dark,

But it's actually five Proudfoots Sly


geordie
Tol Eressea

Mar 10 2014, 7:25am

Post #5 of 12 (193 views)
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would you really like to know? :-) [In reply to] Can't Post

- as is often the case, JRR did actually provide an answer: Hammond & Scull quote from Tolkien's notes in Marquette. Lotr: a Reader's Companion p.385.

I shan't spoil it for you guys.

Smile


squire
Valinor


Mar 10 2014, 12:14pm

Post #6 of 12 (185 views)
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That is remarkable [In reply to] Can't Post

I am surprised that Tolkien chose the half-step (left-to-right) for an Ent 'stride', which I think is the only way to interpret his very short figure of four feet. Traditionally a stride is the full-step (left-to-right-to-left) for ease of counting: just count each time the same foot hits the ground. Thus a Roman stride (passus) is about 5 feet, and 5000 feet is a mille passus, or in English, one mile. And with men, one full stride is not far from the height of a man (c. five feet and change). Ents, one would think, have an even longer ratio of leg length to overall body height - but even following human proportions, with Ents averaging fourteen feet in height, Tolkien's eight-foot double stride (left to left) is like a man walking four feet left to left - try it, it's not a very efficient way to walk no matter what the rate of stride.

In past times when obsessing about this chapter (usually during TORn discussions) I always calculated the ent-stride as being in the range of 12-15 feet, rather than Tolkien's hobbled 8-foot double-stride; then I figured the rate of stride afterwards in order to make Treebeard's estimate of 70,000 ent-strides come out to the apparent distance on the map between the forest edge and Wellinghall. Obviously the pace becomes somewhat slower than what Tolkien wanted; I'm betting he was stuck on his later remark (when the Ents are observed by the Rohirrim) that the strides ("long paces" = greater than four feet, surely?) were as fast as a heron's wing-beats. The way to fudge that is, of course, to state that the Ents herding the Huorns in "The Road to Isengard" were going faster due to the needs of war than Treebeard chose to walk home before the war had begun in "Treebeard".

Anyway, without doing more math than above, I flat out disbelieve Tolkien's calculation of an Ent-stride at four feet: it hardly coheres with the writing that had to be the basis for the entire problem in the first place:
If the stair had been made it was for bigger feet and longer legs than theirs.
At once he set off with long deliberate strides through the trees.
The hobbits now noticed that as he walked his knees hardly bent, but his legs opened in a great stride.
-- all from LotR III.4.




squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Footeramas: The 3rd & 4th TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion and NOW the 1st BotR Discussion too! and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
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Meneldor
Tol Eressea


Mar 10 2014, 1:45pm

Post #7 of 12 (164 views)
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ProudFEET! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Very Clever Dark,

But it's actually five Proudfoots Sly



They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters; These see the works of the Lord, and His wonders in the deep.


noWizardme
Tol Eressea


Mar 10 2014, 9:19pm

Post #8 of 12 (135 views)
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About the same length as a balrog wing...ow! who threw that?!// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

~~~~~~

"… ever let your aim be to come at truth, not to conquer your opponent. So you never shall be at a loss in losing the argument, and gaining a new discovery.”
Arthur Martine

"nowimë I am in the West, Furincurunir to the Dwarves (or at least, to their best friend) and by other names in other lands. Mostly they just say 'Oh no it's him - look busy!' "
Or "Hold off! unhand me, grey-beard loon!"


noWizardme
Tol Eressea


Mar 10 2014, 9:23pm

Post #9 of 12 (136 views)
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Howlong isn't an ent-stride - he's Forlong's brother [In reply to] Can't Post

There were 3 brothers:
Forlong the Fat
Howlong the Strider
Oolong the Teamaker

(This isn't canon, so you can't shoot me with it.)

~~~~~~

"… ever let your aim be to come at truth, not to conquer your opponent. So you never shall be at a loss in losing the argument, and gaining a new discovery.”
Arthur Martine

"nowimë I am in the West, Furincurunir to the Dwarves (or at least, to their best friend) and by other names in other lands. Mostly they just say 'Oh no it's him - look busy!' "
Or "Hold off! unhand me, grey-beard loon!"


Bracegirdle
Tol Eressea


Mar 11 2014, 2:37am

Post #10 of 12 (173 views)
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Stride - Step ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

I wasn’t aware that Tolkien figured an Ent-stride as four feet. But he may not be too far off the mark.

Roman passus aside -Webster defines a ‘stride’: “To take a single, long step…” And a ‘step’ as: “The action of moving the foot once” or “to take (a stride, pace, etc.).” Or the distance traveled forward by a single leg. Thus the ‘stride’ and the ‘step’ are synonymous (although the ‘stride’ could be somewhat longer than the ‘step’). Your “left-to-right-to-left” would be 2 steps or strides.
In the military there are various standard paces. One step occurs on each beat. A pace is the length of one step (assumed to be 75 cm or 30", 2 ˝ feet); do not confuse this use of "pace" with the ancient Roman unit of length (2 steps or 5 roman feet = 148 cm or 58").
I recall marching in the military “Left, Right, Left, Right, Left, Right, ad nauseam. Each “left” or “right” being a single step/stride.

Then assuming, from any information I can find, that stride/step are synonymous my figures for a Treebeard-stride are:
I’m approximating 80 miles from Treebeard’s Hill to Wellinghall (from CRJT’s maps, given the ok by JRRT) and Fonstad’s Atlas (p. 81). 80 miles = 422,400 feet. 70,000 strides (80 miles) works out to about 5 ˝ feet per stride. Assuming my 80 miles to be in the ballpark I have been somewhat mystified at this 5 ˝ foot stride (even though it’s over double the average ‘human military’ stride of 2 ˝ feet). But should we use the “Left to Left” two-step as a stride we would need to double the distance which just won’t work. But then again, we don’t know the length of Treebeard’s legs (or any Ent’s for that matter), so . . .

Thanks for your ‘serious’ thoughts, and thanks to the “Joker-Lurkers” too. A little levity never hurts…
Wink

From World's End then he turned away,
and yearned again to find afar .
his home through shadows journeying,
and burning as an island star . . .

-Bilbo Baggins


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Mar 11 2014, 9:03am

Post #11 of 12 (137 views)
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It depends on whether it's north or south ;) // [In reply to] Can't Post

 



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Bracegirdle
Tol Eressea


Mar 14 2014, 7:15am

Post #12 of 12 (101 views)
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PROUDFEETSES [In reply to] Can't Post

  gollum, gollum

 
 

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