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Indeed

Plurmo
Rohan

Mar 8, 6:21am


Views: 162
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Indeed [In reply to] Can't Post

Immortal is not right word. It's just a way to express the idea of permanence as opposed to human impermanence. Gandalf was very old when Bilbo was a child, and he was still very old when Bilbo was fifty. Bilbo was surprised that Gandalf was still in business. Bilbo didn't ask if Gandalf he was "immortal," but Bilbo is more knowledgeable about the world around him than the common hobbit. He would understand that Gandalf is... queer. And of course Gandalf can "die" like an elf can "die" although Gandalf is a Maia and his "dying," even while Istari has an altogether different meaning.

Reincarnation is also not the right word. I rather think about a thread connecting people who live at different times who seem to be part of a shared experience. That's why I use the "music of Faramir" figure of speech. When Faramir says 'It reminds me of Númenor' he is not talking about what he read or heard, but what he saw with eyes of past people. This is personal interpretation. There are other ways to understand those things. I used this idea when discussing how Meriadoc continues the protection of Primula over Frodo. I tend to interpret things according to the way I see the world. As you're probably suspecting, I'm an Arkham Asylum regular.

I'm speculating on the idea that while the five Istari were of Maiar origin with Valar mandate, Wizards, as "awakened" beings under Valar minding, could be mortals. Saruman catching Merry and Pippin (through the Uruk-hai) accelerated his ruin. In the meantime Faramir caught Frodo and Sam and his choice (remember that Faramir is in the real East, not under a Palantir working as a window on the East) put him on a higher spiritual standing. Both events, the casting of Saruman out of the order and the choice of Faramir happen within a few hours. Those events are very meaningful to me. The falling Ainu tower and the rising númenorean tower. Those are my Two Towers.

As for Sam, Frodo had told him that one day he would be allowed to take the ship, but he didn't need to receive the call of the Sea for that. Let alone in person and while a guest of Círdan. That call he received is a gift so he could finally understand the heart of an elf. It is also the last part of his long process of awakening that begun with Bilbo, then with Gildor Inglorion and then over the whole Quest. Frodo said that Sam would become a wizard or a warrior. Sam became a wizard (that's just my interpretation) at the very moment that he received the Call. Since that moment coincides with the parting of Gandalf and since in contrast with an elven call (think about Galadriel's message to Legolas Greenleaf,) Sam's call is not compelling (it doesn't drive his mind towards the West, but maybe to his mission in Middle-earth,) then I assume that his is a wizard's call and that he takes the place of Gandalf at the order (so to speak.)

While Sauron is gone, it is against Morgoth and his enduring will that the wizards of later Ages will guard. The Shire was an important place for Gandalf. It would be fitting for any wizard taking his place to understand and protect it.

Subject User Time
Were there more than five Istari? Otaku-sempai Send a private message to Otaku-sempai Mar 6, 4:49pm
    Nope. Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone Mar 6, 5:13pm
        Maybe. Otaku-sempai Send a private message to Otaku-sempai Mar 6, 5:45pm
            So... Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone Mar 6, 9:54pm
                Or... Otaku-sempai Send a private message to Otaku-sempai Mar 6, 10:24pm
                    Hmmmm.... Bracegirdle Send a private message to Bracegirdle Mar 7, 3:21am
                        You'll have to ask Darkstone what he meant by that. Otaku-sempai Send a private message to Otaku-sempai Mar 7, 1:21pm
                        Treebeard is the oldest living being in Middle-earth. Plurmo Send a private message to Plurmo Mar 8, 12:52am
                            We got us a dead Bombadil - RIP Bracegirdle Send a private message to Bracegirdle Mar 8, 2:08am
                                My take on Bombadil is literal. Plurmo Send a private message to Plurmo Mar 8, 6:00am
                                    Bombadil query Bracegirdle Send a private message to Bracegirdle Mar 8, 5:45pm
            Young Bilbo knew that Gandalf was a wizard, Plurmo Send a private message to Plurmo Mar 8, 1:01am
                Young Bilbo Bracegirdle Send a private message to Bracegirdle Mar 8, 2:31am
                    Indeed Plurmo Send a private message to Plurmo Mar 8, 6:21am
                        Color me confused Bracegirdle Send a private message to Bracegirdle Mar 8, 7:02pm
                            I'm too much slow to argue. Thank you.// Plurmo Send a private message to Plurmo Mar 8, 8:57pm
                                Didn't want to argue ... Bracegirdle Send a private message to Bracegirdle Mar 8, 9:26pm
                Samwise and Faramir as Wizards? I don't think so. Otaku-sempai Send a private message to Otaku-sempai Mar 8, 1:18pm
                    You're working under a specific definition of wizard. Plurmo Send a private message to Plurmo Mar 8, 9:03pm
                        Okay. I see what you're saying. Otaku-sempai Send a private message to Otaku-sempai Mar 8, 9:38pm
    I do not believe there is a definitive answer to this Smeagol Bagginsess Send a private message to Smeagol Bagginsess Mar 6, 7:14pm
        My belief.... Bladerunner Send a private message to Bladerunner Mar 6, 10:33pm
    Ithryn Luin Bracegirdle Send a private message to Bracegirdle Mar 6, 9:11pm
        Alatar and Pallando Otaku-sempai Send a private message to Otaku-sempai Mar 6, 9:35pm
    my opinion... Elthir Send a private message to Elthir Mar 7, 5:46pm
    What are the Istari? Faenoriel Send a private message to Faenoriel Mar 10, 12:33pm
        Defining the Istari Otaku-sempai Send a private message to Otaku-sempai Mar 10, 2:18pm
    I think it is highly possible. DaughterofLaketown Send a private message to DaughterofLaketown Mar 23, 5:21pm
        Tolkien did name them (twice). Otaku-sempai Send a private message to Otaku-sempai Mar 23, 5:42pm

 
 
 

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