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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
I seriously hope they leave the auction scene for the EE

boldog
Rohan


Feb 25 2014, 7:31am

Post #1 of 20 (945 views)
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I seriously hope they leave the auction scene for the EE Can't Post

To me this just seems like a waste of time. After all the epic battles against legions of orcs, battles against dark lords, deaths of major characters, the emotions are going to be high. I want the ending of taba to be similar to rotk, basically keeping the same emotion through the whole time, and also several endings like rotk, could work well too! But really the auction? I got nothing against it, I think its great to add, but for the EE. I can just imagine PJ making it as comedic as possible, and really, after all we have been through in the film, I dont want to laugh at some Hobbits making Bids, at the end of the film! I want to walk out of that cinema still feeling the Pain of Thorins death, and feeling the change in Bilbo, not the Lols from a comedic auction

I say leave it for the EE, and let the TE have a nice emotinal ending, with some build up to lotr.

Thoughts?

"And do you really think, Thorin Oakenshield, that Bolg will have the slightest symphony for you? After he watched you hack his fathers hand off, so ruthlessly in Moria. Azogs defeat has brought nothing to you, only refuelled hate of his kin, upon yours"

(This post was edited by boldog on Feb 25 2014, 7:34am)


Annatar598
Rohan


Feb 25 2014, 7:48am

Post #2 of 20 (528 views)
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Well [In reply to] Can't Post

I've tried to imagine the auction scene fitting in TABA as an ending but I really can't visualise it in a way that seems good.

I have faith in PJ though. He pulled off a great ending to ROTK and I'm sure we'll have a great ending to TABA. ROTK's ending, I felt, would have been unfilmable! So just imagine how happy I was with how that worked out.

"[Annatar598] is an overzealous apologist [for PJ]" - Certain TORn member.

Really? Alright...

Well, proud to be one I guess.


dormouse
Half-elven


Feb 25 2014, 8:00am

Post #3 of 20 (523 views)
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No way.... [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't think there's any conflict (necessarily) between the high emotion that follows the battle and Bilbo's return home. The auction doesn't have to be played as a comedy - after all, imagine what it would be like to come home and find your home being sold off!

You want to feel the change in Bilbo - well, I reckon that by showing his return as it is in the book, and his reaction to the Shire, that's how we do see the change in him, and what he has learnt from the experience. Bilbo's return isn't a waste of time - essentially, it's what the whole story is about.


CathrineB
Rohan


Feb 25 2014, 10:01am

Post #4 of 20 (441 views)
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Is it necessary though? [In reply to] Can't Post

Is the auction even necessary in the movie? He leaves without any mention of loosing his stuff so why bring it in now.

If it was to be kept in though I think it could work if they don't force the comedy. It can be rather bittersweet really. Like, not trying to ruin the mood and tragedy that has happened, but maybe offer a little uplifting scene when he returns home.


macfalk
Valinor


Feb 25 2014, 10:14am

Post #5 of 20 (432 views)
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Old Bilbo talks about it [In reply to] Can't Post

How Lobelia Sackville-Baggins stole his silverware, in the beginning of AUJ.



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Grey Havens


Feb 25 2014, 10:14am

Post #6 of 20 (420 views)
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After so much drama(morethan in ROTK) a relief is needed [In reply to] Can't Post

And the auction is just fine to create that feeling not that the shire is that many times comical place,but to create the sense that there in the shire,all the quest for Erebor would look like a dream...history became legend,legend became myth...

The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true!


DanielLB
Immortal


Feb 25 2014, 10:44am

Post #7 of 20 (455 views)
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But the auction is the whole "point" of the story ... [In reply to] Can't Post

Bilbo returns to Bag End having seen the world, and yet throughout his adventure, he continually reflected on his home life. Once he does get back his community doesn't seem to welcome him. They were willing to assume that Bilbo was dead and to auction off his belongings. In fact, the book states, “Indeed Bilbo found he had lost more than spoons–he had lost his reputation.” The hobbits – just like Bilbo demonstrated in the beginning of the book – don’t feel comfortable with what is outside of their daily routine “They never had any adventures or did anything unexpected.” Now, Bilbo’s presence back in the hobbit town reminds them that there are scary, unfamiliar things just lurking outside the borders of the Shire.

But Bilbo returns to Bag End and remains content. He didn't become conceited or vain as a result of fighting Goblins and dragons, and riding high in the sky with eagles; rather, he shows that you can confront evil and still remain a humble hobbit. The whole point of the auction is to show Bilbo’s return back to his “simple life” - Tolkien emphasises that humility and an unpretentious lifestyle are the real route to eradicating evil from the world.

I think it is important to show the auction, and Bilbo's struggle at settling back in once more. He’s just an average Hobbit who does some extraordinary things, like meeting a dragon, solving some riddles, and winning a ring; and yet, is a completely different Hobbit to the one that left Bag End. The auction is an important way to show how Bilbo has (and hasn't) changed during his adventure,



CathrineB
Rohan


Feb 25 2014, 10:57am

Post #8 of 20 (401 views)
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ooooh! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
How Lobelia Sackville-Baggins stole his silverware, in the beginning of AUJ.


I completely forgot about that! Laugh


Noria
Rohan

Feb 25 2014, 12:36pm

Post #9 of 20 (378 views)
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Dormouse and Daniel [In reply to] Can't Post

I don’t disagree with what each of you has said here and I do think that the auction is important in several ways to The Hobbit. I’d be happy to see it. But essential to the movie? I’m not so sure.

Back in 2003 people were adamant that the Scouring of the Shire was essential to RotK, and they were not wrong. But PJ managed to put together an ending that omitted the Scouring yet satisfied most people none-the-less. It worked for me that the four hobbits, especially Frodo, had been changed by the War of the Ring and that the rest of the Shirefolk continued unchanged made that contrast even greater.

Who knows what PJ will give us at the end of TaBA? It may include the auction or it may not. As long as it works, I’ll be OK with it.

I don’t count on seeing any of my favourite passages from the book on screen. That way I’m not disappointed.


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Feb 25 2014, 12:37pm

Post #10 of 20 (387 views)
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The auction scene is necessary and very important! [In reply to] Can't Post

The Hobbit starts with Bilbo being confronted by 13 dwarves turning up at his house and him being too polite to kick them all out.

It ends with Bilbo, after discovering the world and himself, with him in the same position, but now he's able to pluck up the courage to tell them all to go away and get out.

The whole point of the scene is to show how Bilbo has changed and how differently he handles tough situations after everything he's been through.


Reuel
The Shire

Feb 25 2014, 1:28pm

Post #11 of 20 (365 views)
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The auction is the point of the story [In reply to] Can't Post

but I'm not sure I'd agree with your reasons, Daniel.

Isn't The Hobbit a story about greed versus gift-giving? Tolkien was absolutely steeped in this culture - it's the main theme of Beowulf - and his little masterpiece tells the story of a line of dwarves ruined when their covetousness conjures up the very personificaton of greed: Smaug. They then make the same mistake again, a cycle broken when Bilbo gives away the Arkenstone, saving much bloodshed. Then he connects the dwarves and elves by giving the necklace Dain has given him to Thranduil. When he gets home, we see the Hobbits at their most venal, and presented in Dickensian terms ("Messrs Grubb, Grubb and Burr-owes" run the auction) - buying up Bilbo for knock-down, even non-existent prices. They refuse to accept it's even him; they claim he's still dead - they're grave-robbers. All Bilbo's gold goes to either buying back his own possessions (ie making a gift of their value to his enemies) or giving presents to his friends - he gives it all away again. Apart from The Ring - a greater power even than his own anti-materialism. That's how the 'dead' Bilbo comes to life again - and avoids the fate of the Master, who dies of starvation with all his gold. The auction is exactly like The Scouring of The Shire - a return home, to find the same problem you have faced abroad recreated in miniature in your own back yard.

Well, I happen to think Jackson is a brilliant producer and mogul and not much cop as a film-maker. But I will admit that, being what he is, perhaps he was wise not to attempt The Scouring of the Shire. Even if it's possibly the best and most moving part of LOTR, I think he made a shrewd assessment of his own limitations, and saw it was too subtle for him (forgetting for a moment the issue of length) and you have to respect that.

But the auction? Even Jackson can't miss this. He's got the time, he doesn't really have another way of ending things (no Grey Havens here), it's the perfect closing of the story's central theme, and he needs the connective tissue between the two trilogies. A lovely diminuendo ending lasting ten years, with Bilbo finding his reputation has gone, and minding as little as he does that his gold is too, getting older, writing more, connecting with young Frodo...and still coveting the Ring...would lead you very nicely to FOTR.

It has to be in, and it really should aspire to be one of the best parts of the whole trilogy.


Bumblingidiot
Rohan

Feb 25 2014, 1:46pm

Post #12 of 20 (357 views)
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The film is called There and Back Again. [In reply to] Can't Post

It is obvious from reading both the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings, that in these stories, the grand, dramatic stuff is in many respects less important than the small everyday events that the characters are involved in. The reason Tolkien invented hobbits - and the reason they are small and ordinary - is that Tolkien wanted to deal with the way that ordinary people get involved in great events.

One of the reasons that I have no interest in the 'fantasy' genre, and don't consider Tolkien to belong in it, is that his stories are rooted in the everyday, and in the history and culture of my country, whereas much other fiction is bereft of anything resembling a normal human interaction. For most people it is little things - sitting in the pub with your friends, or putting the kettle on, enjoying your garden, discussing nonsense etc or just mucking about - these are the bulk of our culture, yet they are excluded from most fiction. In Tolkien, as with some of the other classics - these things are central to the stories. Bilbo's return home and the auction are central parts of the plot.

When Bilbo returns, he finds he has lost his reputation and respectability - but he doesn't mind, and as Tolkien puts it "the sound of the kettle on his hearth was ever more musical than it had been even in the quiet days before the unexpected party". Throughout the books, we are constantly reminded of the ordinary life back home. The exception is when Frodo is so badly damaged, near the end, that he can no longer see it in his mind. The primary sacrifice he makes is to lose his ability to enjoy his home. What happens after they return home is absolutely central to these stories. I'm sure the film will reflect that.

"Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear."


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Feb 25 2014, 4:40pm

Post #13 of 20 (293 views)
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Strictly speaking... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Is the auction even necessary in the movie? He leaves without any mention of loosing his stuff so why bring it in now.

If it was to be kept in though I think it could work if they don't force the comedy. It can be rather bittersweet really. Like, not trying to ruin the mood and tragedy that has happened, but maybe offer a little uplifting scene when he returns home.



The auction could be skipped in the TE. We could go directly from Bilbo reciting "Roads go ever ever on" to Gandalf and Balin's visit to Bag End several years later (with Freeman still as Bilbo), which I think is necessary to retain.

However, the auction should be in the EE. We have seen pictures that seem to indicate that it was shot. This is also the last opportunity to include some Hobbit cameos as easter eggs for the fans: Lobelia, Otho, Drogo Baggins, young Primula Brandybuck, the Mayor of Michel Delving. I will find it hard to forgive Peter Jackson if the auction is left out completely.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Bumblingidiot
Rohan

Feb 25 2014, 6:26pm

Post #14 of 20 (267 views)
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PJ has already said [In reply to] Can't Post

that we'll see Lobelia and Otho in the last film. I took that to mean in the theatrical version. The only scene those two are likely to be in is the auction scene, so we get the spoon stealing etc.

"Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear."


Thranderz
Rohan


Feb 25 2014, 9:53pm

Post #15 of 20 (191 views)
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Yup [In reply to] Can't Post

It is the 'scouring of the shire' of the hobbit. It will probably be left out but I'd love to see it in the EE. I believe in Jackson to be able to pull it off.

I simply walked into Mordor.


FrodoEyes
Rivendell

Feb 25 2014, 10:04pm

Post #16 of 20 (203 views)
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I've seen a photo [In reply to] Can't Post

Over on WetaCollectors I've seen a photo of Bag End with lots of furniture and hobbits outside. Surely that has to be the auction. I'm positive it's been filmed.

'I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.'
'So do all who live to see such times but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us.'


Patty
Immortal


Feb 26 2014, 1:12am

Post #17 of 20 (146 views)
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Hope we get to see it. [In reply to] Can't Post

Unlike some of the scenes in Lord of the rings that we know were filmed and didn't even end up on the EE. I've been awaiting those precious deleted scenes for years.

Permanent address: Into the West






Mooseboy018
Grey Havens


Feb 26 2014, 3:52am

Post #18 of 20 (124 views)
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me too [In reply to] Can't Post

Hopefully it doesn't take as long as it took for the original Star Wars trilogy deleted scenes to be released.

And then there's the scenes from AUJ that didn't even end up in the extended edition. Like Bilbo stepping outside and looking at his neighbors before running out to start his adventure. And the scene in Rivendell when Thorin talks to Bilbo about the stars (or something like that). And then there's that bit with Thorin and Fili during the warg chase.


Smeagol Bagginsess
Rivendell


Feb 26 2014, 10:09am

Post #19 of 20 (103 views)
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The Scouring is thematically one of the most important sections of RotK. [In reply to] Can't Post

Cutting that out is removing one of the core pieces of the book - of dropping a curtain to the character-arcs of the hobbits.
And I believe a good director could have included it efficiently.

In this case, the auction is not as important to the theme of the book. But Bilbo's return is. I do not think it is a necessary scene to add (the auction), but a similar scene showing Bilbo's change of heart, him viewing the life in the Shire as mundane and boring etc. etc, would effectively drop a curtain on Bilbo's character and this series of films.

Anyway, I know this set of films should rightfully be "THE DWARF" and not "THE HOBBIT", so Bilbo's arc does not matter that much to the filmmakers. So no worries there.


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Feb 26 2014, 4:29pm

Post #20 of 20 (70 views)
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Roads go ever ever on [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Cutting that out is removing one of the core pieces of the book - of dropping a curtain to the character-arcs of the hobbits.
And I believe a good director could have included it efficiently.

In this case, the auction is not as important to the theme of the book. But Bilbo's return is. I do not think it is a necessary scene to add (the auction), but a similar scene showing Bilbo's change of heart, him viewing the life in the Shire as mundane and boring etc. etc, would effectively drop a curtain on Bilbo's character and this series of films.

Anyway, I know this set of films should rightfully be "THE DWARF" and not "THE HOBBIT", so Bilbo's arc does not matter that much to the filmmakers. So no worries there.



This is why I would at least include Bilbo's poem in the theatrical edition, skipping right to the later visit by Gandalf and Balin. The auction could conceivably be left for the EE, but I still wouldn't leave it out entirely. I does seem to have been filmed.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring

 
 

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