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TABA leading into... a Middle Earth TV Series?

DemoElite
Rivendell


Feb 24 2014, 4:09pm

Post #1 of 25 (846 views)
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TABA leading into... a Middle Earth TV Series? Can't Post

Instead of a bridge movie, why not? It can tell tales from all the ages, jump around a little. Looks at Game of Thrones success. TV is the perfect outlet for The Silmarillion, Children of Hurin, Lost Tales, etc. PJ can produce, others can direct. Use WETA and New Zealand to tell new tales through other directors eyes. Same locations and new locations.Come on Tolkien Estates!!! Please?


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I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve!



LordotRings93
Rohan


Feb 24 2014, 4:13pm

Post #2 of 25 (464 views)
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I'd love this [In reply to] Can't Post

HBO has done an amazing job bringing GRRM's books to the screen. Now HBO wouldn't be making the M-e series, of course, since they like to have sex, violence/gore, and profanity in their content (which I like how Game Of Thrones handles it), but M-e has none of this, maybe the violence, but if anything I'd want a serious network to make it, like maybe FX or TNT, maybe even AMC, who can get away with more.

But yeah, that way we'd get a nice 10+ hour story/season, with more content, as opposed to a 2-3 hour movie.

Lover of Medieval Fantasy
"I know what I must do. It's just... I'm afraid to do it."


DemoElite
Rivendell


Feb 24 2014, 4:14pm

Post #3 of 25 (449 views)
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to add more [In reply to] Can't Post

It can be told through Bilbo's book. In between Hobbit and LOTR, reflecting on the history of middle earth. AS Bilbo sits in Bag end writing. And TABA can end with a hint that the series could happen. Picture it... "And that wasn't the only story in Middle Earth that hasn't been told, Frodo.."


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I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve!



DemoElite
Rivendell


Feb 24 2014, 4:19pm

Post #4 of 25 (434 views)
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some titles [In reply to] Can't Post

History of Middle-Earth
or
The Red Book of Westmarch

and you can title them according to Ages if you wish....each season a different age?


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I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve!



demnation
Rohan

Feb 24 2014, 4:21pm

Post #5 of 25 (465 views)
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The drop in quality would be quite noticeable [In reply to] Can't Post

Especially in such a special-effects heavy series. I follow quite a few Game of Thrones production blogs, and the budget is a constant concern for them. So much, in fact, that they are limited every step of the way in what they can do. Sets, costumes, the actors they hire- the production team on that show (or at least, HBO) first ask what the price is. We'd probably be looking at a similar situation with a Middle-earth tv series. Going from the blank checks of PJ's films to budget minding television wouldn't be the best leap, IMO. It would basically be like using the new Star Trek films as a springboard for a new tv series- people would complain that (at least effects wise) it wasn't up to par with the films.

"It is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till. What weather they shall have is not ours to rule." Gandalf, "The Last Debate."


Arannir
Valinor


Feb 24 2014, 4:23pm

Post #6 of 25 (437 views)
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This. [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, the drop in quality would not go down with the fanchise imho and the believable creation of Middle-earth.

With a Game of Thrnes budget you will never come even close to what we get in both TH and LotR.

If I live to see more Middle-earth adaptations in my lifetime, I hope it to be a trilogy based on the three Silmarillion tales "Beren and Luthien", "The Children of Hurin" and "The Fall of Gondolin".

Big budget movies. No TV series (unless bundgets there reach blockbuster level, one never knows what happens in 50 years ;) ).


Visually GoT works because people know it looks good for a TV format. Not convinced yet how it will live up in the future (though I am not that interested anymore, since I realized the books' quality starts to drop rapdily, but that is another off-topic matter).


“All good stories deserve embellishment."

Praise is subjective. And so is criticism.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at."

(This post was edited by Arannir on Feb 24 2014, 4:32pm)


DemoElite
Rivendell


Feb 24 2014, 4:24pm

Post #7 of 25 (424 views)
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i understand the concern [In reply to] Can't Post

The writing would have to be more character driven then CGI. Plenty of New Zealand exists in LOTR and TH without CGI.


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I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve!



demnation
Rohan

Feb 24 2014, 4:34pm

Post #8 of 25 (415 views)
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It's not just landscapes [In reply to] Can't Post

Pick any sequence out of The Silmarillion, and odds are that a good dozen monsters make an appearance. Even a Character Driven story like Beren and Luthien would require the kind of money that just generally isn't available in the world of television. I don't mean to burst your bubble: I thought this was a good idea just a few days ago. But I've seen quite a bit lately just how much producers of great television go through to get their vision on screen. I read that the producers of Game of Thrones had to beg HBO for a (relatively) measly $2 million to finish the Battle of Blackwater. WETA probably spent that much just on Smaug's toenail.

"It is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till. What weather they shall have is not ours to rule." Gandalf, "The Last Debate."


dormouse
Half-elven


Feb 24 2014, 5:16pm

Post #9 of 25 (379 views)
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Yes. The cry of 'too much CGI' would vanish pretty quickly.... [In reply to] Can't Post

.. if people saw how these stories would have to be presented without CGI, or with the level of CGI that TV production companies can afford.


Glorfindela
Valinor


Feb 24 2014, 5:19pm

Post #10 of 25 (401 views)
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You forgot one other obstacle… [In reply to] Can't Post

The Tolkien estate.


(This post was edited by Glorfindela on Feb 24 2014, 5:21pm)


LordotRings93
Rohan


Feb 24 2014, 7:34pm

Post #11 of 25 (322 views)
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Well.... [In reply to] Can't Post

I find the dragons in GoT to be much more lifelike than Smaug, and more menacing. If you watch the new season 4 trailer, that final shot of Drogon looks way too realistic, and I literally had my jaw hit the floor. GoT practically has a budget suit for a small-medium film. The budget is increased by HBO almost every season due to its success.

Lover of Medieval Fantasy
"I know what I must do. It's just... I'm afraid to do it."


Elizabeth
Valinor


Feb 24 2014, 8:30pm

Post #12 of 25 (316 views)
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He didn't forget... [In reply to] Can't Post

...the post ended, "Come on Tolkien Estates!!! Please? "

But, yes, that's the obstacle for the foreseeable future, unless someone wants to go for a series based on the Appendices, etc., which would have to be mostly made up, since there are few details in those stories.








geordie
Tol Eressea

Feb 24 2014, 9:32pm

Post #13 of 25 (304 views)
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I don't think of the Tolkien Estate as an obstacle [In reply to] Can't Post

- if it were not for Christopher, we wouldn't have The Silmarillion. Nor anything else of Tolkien's works after 'The Road Goes Ever On', published in 1967.
.


Patty
Immortal


Feb 24 2014, 9:51pm

Post #14 of 25 (295 views)
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Excellent point. As I've often said here, I enjoy The Sill almost as much as Lord of the rings... [In reply to] Can't Post

But they are an obstacle to bringing any kind of dramatization of these works to the screen. You can view the word obstacle as good or bad here, but I'm very happy that Christopher Tolkien finished his father's work on the Silmarillion

Permanent address: Into the West






LordotRings93
Rohan


Feb 24 2014, 10:04pm

Post #15 of 25 (268 views)
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And that's a good thing [In reply to] Can't Post

With a limited budget, maybe it'd feel more realistic and grounded, like how real and dirty Game Of Thrones feels due to their filming on-location and how stunts and fights are done without CGI doubles.

Lover of Medieval Fantasy
"I know what I must do. It's just... I'm afraid to do it."


Arannir
Valinor


Feb 24 2014, 10:12pm

Post #16 of 25 (270 views)
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Can't agree here. [In reply to] Can't Post

The dragons are imho okay/good for GoT... but wouldn't work at all for a potential series including anything from the old days of Middle-earth - which is more grounded or "dirty" when it comes to the human characters (humanoid that is, not just men) but also more extreme when it comes to fantasy elements.

Imho there is no way to stretch the emotional and political stuff in there enough to create a plot that carries a show as the story of "A Song of Ice and Fire" carries GoT. The fantastical aspect would have to be a major engaging factor... Balrogs riding dragons and all that stuff. And it would simply have to look ground-breaking imho.


But we can agree to disagree here... I get emotional anyways when it comes to comparisons with GoT because I loved the first three books so much and was extremely dissapointed in what GRR Martin came up after. ;)


“All good stories deserve embellishment."

Praise is subjective. And so is criticism.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at."


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Feb 25 2014, 2:25am

Post #17 of 25 (256 views)
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HBO wouldn't produce it [In reply to] Can't Post

its not adult enough for their demographic.

 photo 1bf768b4-0b33-420d-9c59-41ea3cf03def_zps1d44c4cf.jpg


demnation
Rohan

Feb 25 2014, 2:59am

Post #18 of 25 (222 views)
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I never said they should :) [In reply to] Can't Post

I was saying that television in general isn't the best place for an adaptation of the The Sil because of money issues.

"It is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till. What weather they shall have is not ours to rule." Gandalf, "The Last Debate."


DemoElite
Rivendell


Feb 25 2014, 3:00am

Post #19 of 25 (219 views)
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Job isn't the only tv station [In reply to] Can't Post

Lots of good things happening on cable channels. Netflix can do it. The strain tv series is coming soon on fxx.


Quote
I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve!



geordie
Tol Eressea

Feb 25 2014, 7:33am

Post #20 of 25 (224 views)
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Thanks. but [In reply to] Can't Post

- I've never heard of the word 'obstacle' used in a good sense. Smile Obstacles impede progress. The only folk who look on the Estate as an obstacle are those who want them to do something with Tolkien's works which they have no interest in. The Estate was set up by Tolkien to look after his affairs after his death; it doesn't exist merely to grant licenses.


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Feb 25 2014, 3:18pm

Post #21 of 25 (180 views)
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Maybe not NefFlix [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Lots of good things happening on cable channels. Netflix can do it. The strain tv series is coming soon on fxx.



I don't know what NetFlix's resources are, but a Simarillion series seems to me that it would be too expensive for such a company.

AMC's success with The Walking Dead is inspiring it to attempt a t.v. series adaptation of the Vertigo comic Preacher (sort-of a post-apocalyptic Western). This suggests that AMC or another basic cable network might be the way to go. However, I still fear that the story of The Silmarillion is just too complex and too unfocused to be easily adapted. None of the suggestions above do much to increase my confidence. And then there is still the whole issue of screenrights.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Feb 25 2014, 3:21pm)


DemoElite
Rivendell


Feb 26 2014, 1:00am

Post #22 of 25 (147 views)
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Something similar to Beuwolf [In reply to] Can't Post

Might work. Animation or computer effects driven concepts.


Quote
I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve!



painjoiker
Grey Havens


Feb 26 2014, 1:25am

Post #23 of 25 (147 views)
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Hm, I have to disagree! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I still fear that the story of The Silmarillion is just too complex and too unfocused to be easily adapted. None of the suggestions above do much to increase my confidence. And then there is still the whole issue of screenrights.


The Silmarillion (down to the basics) are all about the battle between the Valar & Eldar vs. Morgoth w/ crew!
Make this about the breaking of the two lamps and the stealing of the silmarills! Link every story with the help of the silmarills and the on-going wars and BOOM! It's a series Wink

The creation of Arda and the back-story needed to fully understand the conflict could first be told in a very short version in the first episode of the series and then re-told in more and more detail as the intro to each following season!

Much have to be invented/made-up anyway due to the small amount of details and dialogue, so the linking-process should not be that hard if the writers are real fans or the source material Smile

Vocalist in the melodic metal band Betomast
and the progressive doom rock band Mater Thallium

(This post was edited by painjoiker on Feb 26 2014, 1:28am)


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Feb 26 2014, 2:03pm

Post #24 of 25 (122 views)
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There are still serious problems to overcome [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
The Silmarillion (down to the basics) are all about the battle between the Valar & Eldar vs. Morgoth w/ crew!
Make this about the breaking of the two lamps and the stealing of the silmarills! Link every story with the help of the silmarills and the on-going wars and BOOM! It's a series Wink

The creation of Arda and the back-story needed to fully understand the conflict could first be told in a very short version in the first episode of the series and then re-told in more and more detail as the intro to each following season!

Much have to be invented/made-up anyway due to the small amount of details and dialogue, so the linking-process should not be that hard if the writers are real fans or the source material Smile



We both seem to agree that the focus would need to be on the Quenta Silmarillion and the First Age--leaving the intertwined stories of Numenor and the Rings of Power for another day. We still don't have a single protagonist or a relatable set of protagonists, who tie the tales of the QT together and provide a sense of continuity. There is Feanor and his sons, but they are largely a bunch of arses who mostly fail in redeeming themselves (Maglor may be the most sympathetic after Lady Galadriel), making for a depressing story for the most part. Morgoth may be the primary villain, but Feanor and his kin tend to be their own worst enemies. There are few happy endings even among the most heroic characters of the tales (Thingol and Melian; Hurin and his children; Beren and Luthien; Tuor and Idril; Earendil and Elwing). In short, I pity the poor writers who would attempt this project.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Feb 26 2014, 2:12pm)


EomundDaughter
Lorien

Feb 27 2014, 10:01pm

Post #25 of 25 (100 views)
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Really dont think it possible to do it with the quality we would all want [In reply to] Can't Post

 

 
 

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