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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Someone needs to die in lake town
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Avandel
Half-elven

Feb 18 2014, 3:34pm

Post #26 of 45 (483 views)
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IMO deaths don't make films "better" necessarily [In reply to] Can't Post

Or books. Depends on the story, what the author is trying to convey, and whoever the viewer/reader is. For me - and don't want to hijack this thread as there are others on the subject - what goes on on the Hobbit book at the end and the treatment is more frustrating than satisfying for me.

As for main characters dying in Laketown, can see what you are saying, but (aside from footage that's already out) to me it's the main characters that have the best chance of surviving in a situation like that, unless someone willingly sacrifices themselves. Tauriel, Bard, Kili, Fili, and Oin are all fighters e.g. used to making quick reactions (how fast Oin reacted to the orcs for instance). In the middle of chaos they are not going to freeze in shock, but start moving, assessing a situation, figuring the best way out.

And they of course will protect the children. Besides, what's the classic movie survival tactic re fire?
Jumping into a pool of some sort and swimming deep. Laketown sits on top of a lake. True, Smaug can probably practically boil the water, but that's kind of offset by all the ice in the water. For all we know Fili will take charge and send everyone down the toilet again to hide. Tauriel may have some elf magic we don't know about yet.....perhaps Legolas turns back and helps - no way to know.

Tho I think plenty will fry in Laketown, or try to swim and have burning debris fall on them, of die from exposure, and it will look as awful as PJ can get away with.


jkm7
Bree


Feb 18 2014, 4:12pm

Post #27 of 45 (491 views)
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Yes there was a report of [In reply to] Can't Post

Tauriel healing a human girI, but I think that scene was cut in favour of Tauriel healing Kili. At least I hope so, the last thing TABA needs is another Dr. Tauriel scene Unsure And no, there will not be any major deaths in Laketown. We've seen footage of Bard and his family watching a burning Laketown from afar. Kili and Fili & Tauriel are confirmed at Bo5A, that leaves Oin or Bofur but it's unlikely that more than the 3 dwarves we already know will die. I agree that there should be at least one main character who dies but I can't see who as the mayor is still needed as an antagonist after the attack so maybe it is Alfrid but I can't see him as being a main character or one a lot of ppl would care about.


Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Feb 18 2014, 4:20pm

Post #28 of 45 (475 views)
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HER name is... [In reply to] Can't Post

...Pikelet. At least that's what it says in the 2-page section on her entitled "Miss Pikelet: Diva of the Pigpen" in the DOS Official Movie Guide by Brian Sibley. Apparently, PJ fell in love with her and the next thing everyone knew, a scene had been written for her and Bofur. She's near-sighted and very picky about her food. The only way they could get her to put the "athelas" in her mouth was to smear it with homemade pesto. It says "...Because working on a film where multiple takes are often the order of the day...'After a while,' says Steve Old [the animal wrangler], 'Pikelet got tired of pesto and we had to try something else. Knowing that she loves yoghurt, we dipped the herbs in a mixture of yoghurt and green food coloring, which worked fine, except that the camera was really close and Pikelet was chewing away so enthusiastically that the camera lens kept getting splattered with fluorescent green yoghurt.'"

I'm not sure what this means for Pikelet's fate in TABA but the stunt coordinator Glen Boswell also says, "There was a scene [movie not specified] where I was expecting to have to get a stunt double to stand in for Pikelet on account of her unusual size, shape and weight. But, as it turned out, she had a real talent for stunts and, whilst I think she prefers acting, I'm writing a reference for her to the union to get her on the books for stunt work." Ah, Pikelet...I guess we can only hope that stunt involved climbing into a boat to escape Lake-town before she becomes bacon!ShockedWink

"And we find what we're made of
Through the open door
Is it fear you're afraid of?
What are you waiting for?
Love alone is worth the fight."
-Switchfoot


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Feb 18 2014, 4:21pm

Post #29 of 45 (456 views)
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Yes, there will be plenty of ordinary citizens and guardsmen who die [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
However, if anyone dies, I'd say it'd be Oin, and Bofur will see it happen. People can sympathy with an old man, especially one who stayed in Lake-town for the sole purpose of healing another dwarf. I can seem him getting weighed down by some collapsing pieces of wood as they run away, and Bofur turns around to exchange one last look before he is covered in flames.

We shall see...



I would think that the deaths of the Lake-folk should be enough. The Master should survive the attack to continue his political maneuvering, but this is the director who killed Saruman at Isengard--so who knows? Bard might receive a false death, as he did in the book, only to reveal himself to have survived Smaug's destruction. Perhaps the Master uses Alfrid as a human shield.

As others have pointed out, Oin must survive so he can accompany Balin to Moria. Fili and Kili's destiny is at Erebor. If any Dwarf has to watch his back, it is probably Bofur; although, I would really like Bofur to survive.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Feb 18 2014, 4:44pm

Post #30 of 45 (443 views)
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Agreed. [In reply to] Can't Post

I figure everyone important will survive, but Thorin, Bilbo and the rest of the company might be allowed to *think* the others are dead for awhile. Maybe the grief will snap Thorin out of his early-onset dragon-sickness enough that he'll be willing to give Bilbo the mithril instead of being all paranoid with him about the Arkenstone for awhile. Then, when they find out the others aren't dead and they're all together in the mountain again (I'm not sure how they'll get together again, but apparently they do because William Kircher said in his interview on TORN Tuesday that he kept hiding Aidan's weapons from him during the scene where they all charge out of the mountain to join Bo5a) THEN Thorin can descend into madness again until...well, you know...Unsure

"And we find what we're made of
Through the open door
Is it fear you're afraid of?
What are you waiting for?
Love alone is worth the fight."
-Switchfoot


dormouse
Half-elven


Feb 18 2014, 4:51pm

Post #31 of 45 (481 views)
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Why the hunger to see death on screen? [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't get it.

Smaug will attack Laketown and people there will die. It's likely to be very dramatic - lots of fire, lots of screaming, running around, panic. And death for lots of residents of Laketown. Tragic and terrifying. Were the long-dead dwarves in Erebor any less tragic because we didn't know their names?

One very big, very important named character will die in that encounter. Otherwise? I think it's extremely unlikely that either of Bard's daughters will die - it would set the wrong note, I think, at the head of the film. And any tragedies they introduce early on would rob the real climax of some of its impact. So I don't think the children, or Tauriel, or any of the dwarves would die - though I'm betting we will have a few close calls and plenty of 'Oh no, is he....' moments. With Bard, for instance, we should believe for a short while that he can't possibly have survived - that's what happens in the book.

But survival is more in keeping with Tolkien than slaughter and I'd rather they keep it that way. It gives so much more impact to the deaths he did include in the story.


Imladris18
Lorien


Feb 18 2014, 6:19pm

Post #32 of 45 (439 views)
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It seems we nearly always share the same opinions :) [In reply to] Can't Post

Keep fightin' the good fight.

I'll never understand why some people would prefer to see characters like Bard's daughters killed off...



Lissuin
Valinor


Feb 18 2014, 6:58pm

Post #33 of 45 (431 views)
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Once again, dormouse... [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Smaug will attack Laketown and people there will die. It's likely to be very dramatic - lots of fire, lots of screaming, running around, panic. And death for lots of residents of Laketown. Tragic and terrifying. Were the long-dead dwarves in Erebor any less tragic because we didn't know their names?


Heart


Eowyn of Penns Woods
Valinor


Feb 18 2014, 7:13pm

Post #34 of 45 (412 views)
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Well... [In reply to] Can't Post

I did just see a piece on TV about a pig in Hawaii that can swim and likes to surf, so Pikelet could have some cool skills, too. Doesn't mean her boat won't become a sort of smokehouse on water that will enhance her flavor by the time it reaches the shore, though! ;)

**********************************

NABOUF
Not a TORns*b!
Certified Curmudgeon
Knitting Knerd
NARF: NWtS Chapter Member since June 17,2011


Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Feb 18 2014, 7:54pm

Post #35 of 45 (398 views)
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Mm-mm, smoked pork... [In reply to] Can't Post

Now all they need are a bunch of grass-skirts, a little poi and Bam!...instant Lake-town luau!Tongue

"And we find what we're made of
Through the open door
Is it fear you're afraid of?
What are you waiting for?
Love alone is worth the fight."
-Switchfoot


KingTurgon
Rohan


Feb 18 2014, 10:38pm

Post #36 of 45 (404 views)
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It might be cliche [In reply to] Can't Post

But I would be extremely pleased if they got the axe! Would make Smaug seem even more menacing, and it would eliminate some of the trilogy's most annoying characters.


Moahunter
Rohan


Feb 18 2014, 11:59pm

Post #37 of 45 (365 views)
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I think that is Bard and his family standing on the lake shore..... [In reply to] Can't Post

looking at Lake-Town burning. I'm going by the background of bushes/trees.


MyPrecioussss
Bree

Feb 19 2014, 5:30am

Post #38 of 45 (345 views)
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... [In reply to] Can't Post

...You were annoyed by Bard's daughters, who had all of 30 seconds of screentime and three lines between them?

Yeah. See my previous point about misogyny. Fortunately, you're not in charge. Laugh


In Reply To
But I would be extremely pleased if they got the axe! Would make Smaug seem even more menacing, and it would eliminate some of the trilogy's most annoying characters.



(This post was edited by MyPrecioussss on Feb 19 2014, 5:34am)


Salmacis81
Tol Eressea


Feb 19 2014, 3:01pm

Post #39 of 45 (294 views)
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Do you see misogyny in everything? [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
See my previous point about misogyny.



Just because someone doesn't like a certain character who happens to be a woman doesn't mean that they are a misogynist.


arithmancer
Grey Havens


Feb 19 2014, 3:57pm

Post #40 of 45 (280 views)
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But if they dislike most... [In reply to] Can't Post

...the only three characters who are female, it does seem odd.



Arannir
Valinor


Feb 19 2014, 4:00pm

Post #41 of 45 (286 views)
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I do not dislike Tilda and Sigrid... [In reply to] Can't Post

... and found them great additions.

But I also believe that the death of at least one of them would serve Bard's character, the politics before the Bot5A, the stakes and Smaug's malice.


“All good stories deserve embellishment."

Praise is subjective. And so is criticism.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at."


Noria
Gondor

Feb 19 2014, 4:09pm

Post #42 of 45 (274 views)
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I don't think PJ will go there. [In reply to] Can't Post

Whether it would serve the story dramatically or not, I don't think they'll kill off a known kid, such as one of Bard's daughters, in this movie.

To me it doesn't seem necessary anyway. I expect that there will be plenty of death for unknown or almost unknown Laketowners and narrow escapes for the dwarves, Tauriel, Bard and his family.


Salmacis81
Tol Eressea


Feb 20 2014, 3:17pm

Post #43 of 45 (208 views)
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Could be in some cases... [In reply to] Can't Post

...but in other cases, it could be that people simply dislike added characters that weren't in the original story or lore (which is the case for every female in this story aside from Galadriel).

As for my own personal opinion, I thought Bard's daughters were cute and I liked that they gave Bard more of a background, since in the book he kind of shows up out of nowhere - so Tilda and Sigrid were fine by me. Tauriel, on the other hand, could have been great if they hadn't gone and saddled her with a silly "romance" subplot. Lilly was likable in the role, but I do not like what the writers did with her (or Legolas, for that matter). Again, just my personal opinion.


(This post was edited by Salmacis81 on Feb 20 2014, 3:17pm)


MyWeeLadGimli
Lorien

Feb 20 2014, 4:48pm

Post #44 of 45 (189 views)
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But the film-verse is different... [In reply to] Can't Post

and Oin isn't mentioned as going to Moria in the LOTR films, so if he dies here it wouldn't be a continuity error as far as the movies are concerned. PJ killed off Haldir in TTT, so he's not opposed to killing off characters who survived in the book.

However, I don't want any of the Dwarves to die who didn't die in the book. I would be okay with Kili dying at Laketown, as long as it's handled well.


Nolane
Bree

Feb 20 2014, 6:23pm

Post #45 of 45 (201 views)
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None of the major characters will die in the Laketown attack [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't think PJ will push it that far. The end of the BOFA is set up to be a stunner (especially to casual movie goers who have not read the book). The only thing I think he will add is to have Tauriel try to save Kili during the BOFA and fail. I can see her carrying his dead body crying after the battle already, with Howard Shore's music filling the soundtrack.
That said, I hope PJ wreaks complete havoc on any lessor characters in Laketown he deems expendable. Smaug needs to inflict maximum destruction and suffering before he dies.Evil

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