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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The "weight" issue

triptrap
Lorien

Feb 17 2014, 1:06pm

Post #1 of 11 (1057 views)
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The "weight" issue Can't Post

I had a big LORT extended edition viewing with some friends this weekend. When we were finished i was really overwhelmed how incredibly dense the atmosphere was, how sinister and dark it got, how much was at stake and how much weight and impact the story had.
And i really wonder how they will try to achieve that in some way or another for the last Hobbit. Ofc this is the Hobbit and it will probably never be as dark as Return of the King, but it's just that compared to the LOTR the Hobbit-movies lack atmosphere and weight. Desolation of Smaug was already far superior to AUJ as far as i'm concerned, but it still resembled your leight-weight action-flick more than an epic, atmospheric tale. So how are they going to achieve the weight and drama for such an atmosphere? Or will they even try at doing so?
What are your thoughts?


MomoftheShire
Rivendell

Feb 17 2014, 1:31pm

Post #2 of 11 (545 views)
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BUT . . .! [In reply to] Can't Post

So did the book! The BIG BAD is a dragon, not Evil incarnate. This kind of comparison is getting on my nerves.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Feb 17 2014, 1:35pm

Post #3 of 11 (535 views)
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Dol Guldur and the BoFA [In reply to] Can't Post

The action when Smaug attacks Lake-town is likely to be fast and furious--more like an action movie, as you stated. Things may slow down in one or two sequences, but probably not by that much.

The White Council versus Sauron should have more of the flavor of The Lord of the Rings. The stakes are higher, as Sauron's sights are set on domination of the North and then the rest of Middle-earth. Also, Dol Guldur is an eerie, atmospheric location, bringing to mind Minas Morgal and Barad-dur.

At the Lonely Mountain we get a slow build-up to the Battle of Five Armies with parleys, a siege, and more negotiations before actual blows are struck. Then we have an epic battle. These are weighty matters that will affect the entire region for decades to come.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Escapist
Gondor


Feb 17 2014, 1:38pm

Post #4 of 11 (492 views)
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I think that's part of why including Dol Guldur was a good idea. [In reply to] Can't Post

But of course, this can't become White Council vs Dol Guldur ... with some hobbity antics and a dragon on the side. There is a balance that is hard to get perfect for every person's taste.

If all the world's a stage then who's writing the script?


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Feb 17 2014, 1:44pm

Post #5 of 11 (475 views)
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There was never a question of skipping over the White Council vs. the Necromancer [In reply to] Can't Post

Giving the Dol Guldur sub-plot short shrift was only an option if the adaptation had remained a single movie. That stopped being a possibility once the idea of a bridge-film was eliminated.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Avandel
Half-elven

Feb 17 2014, 5:46pm

Post #6 of 11 (394 views)
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madness and tragedy [In reply to] Can't Post

disagree w. "resembled your leight-weight action-flick more than an epic, atmospheric tale."
as DOS has the tension ratcheting up as pieces of the story are put in place - but re TABA, not only are there epic clashes, but the strain put on various relationships and alliances.

An ancient warrior elf-king roused from his isolation, a dragon heading to Laketown, another warrior king (already pushed to the breaking point) w. the first taint of an inherited madness, younger elves and dwarves caught between differing ideals, a powerful wizard imprisoned - whose staff is broken, an ancient evil on the march, an unlikely hero/antihero imprisoned, and a little hobbit carrying a "trinket" that is already darkening his heart - and who I suspect has already committed an act of betrayal of sorts, but did so to protect.

Plenty of darkness and potential tragedy all around - I'm going to be chewing my nails off. And oh, the little matter of the Iron Hills dwarves who sound like complete badasses - sounds like there's going to be an absolute slaughter - as much as PJ can do and keep the rating PG.


Elanor of Rohan
Lorien


Feb 17 2014, 6:17pm

Post #7 of 11 (376 views)
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light tone but the ending... [In reply to] Can't Post

I have always had mixed feelings about the tone of the hobbit. Yes, the story is told very differently from LOTR, Tolkien writes a story which can be actually read out loud to children, there are many funny moments and the general atmosphere is lighter.

But, if you consider how the story really ends with the mover of the whole story (the Quest of Erebor is Thorin's idea, even if inspired by Gandalf) slain on the battlefield, not to mention his sister sons, killed in order to follow the ancient Norse sagas' tradition.. Frown

Of course these deaths are dealt with by Tolkien in a non-dramatic way but if you just stick to the simple facts, the ending is far more tragic than LOTR.
So just the simple narration of these facts will help PJ darken the whole mood and adding much much weight. And guess who are the most emotionally invested Dwarves? The ones who are going to die and they really wanted us to care deeply for them (in the book the emotional stakes are lower and probably it isn't a coincidence).


Escapist
Gondor


Feb 17 2014, 10:31pm

Post #8 of 11 (261 views)
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I never said or even hinted at giving short shift to / skipping WC v DG [In reply to] Can't Post

not sure where this is coming from?

Again, I said that I thought that adding it was a really good idea. I think that could be said whether it was added from the onset, settled on after the bridge film was pitched, or beefed up after the 3-film split decision (or any combination of the above).

edit: Thinking about it more, I did mention balance. What I meant, to spell it out more, is for TH regular plotline to remain the main plot and for the WC v DG to be a sub plot (thus a good idea to keep it in the movie).

I think it can be included as a secondary plot without it being short shrifted.

If all the world's a stage then who's writing the script?

(This post was edited by Escapist on Feb 17 2014, 10:35pm)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Feb 17 2014, 11:41pm

Post #9 of 11 (241 views)
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Sorry, I think you misunderstand [In reply to] Can't Post

I just mean that it wasn't just a good idea to expand on the Dol Guldur subplot; it became inevitable once the decision was made to adapt The Hobbit over two, and then three, movies. I never meant to imply that you were in any way against the addition.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Escapist
Gondor


Feb 18 2014, 12:03am

Post #10 of 11 (233 views)
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Considering how closely linked 3 film and bridge film were linked [In reply to] Can't Post

in the decision-making process, I think I see what you mean now.

If all the world's a stage then who's writing the script?


Elskidor
Rohan


Feb 18 2014, 3:13pm

Post #11 of 11 (184 views)
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Perhaps [In reply to] Can't Post

but only if you look at as main characters that died. There was much much more death in Middle Earth. I guess it ended better with the good guys winning, where Thorin accomplishes almost nothing though.


In Reply To


Of course these deaths are dealt with by Tolkien in a non-dramatic way but if you just stick to the simple facts, the ending is far more tragic than LOTR.


ROUND 9 is up! Tolkien Elimination Game Finals (Part 1)

http://newboards.theonering.net/forum/gforum/perl/gforum.cgi?post=715402;sb=post_time;so=DESC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

or found in the Pollantir

 
 

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