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**Unfinished Tales Discussion - Disaster of the Gladden Fields
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silneldor
Half-elven


Feb 26 2014, 6:41pm

Post #151 of 155 (2399 views)
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I am going to 'disturb class again' [In reply to] Can't Post

and i beg your pardon, deeply respecting your person you understand, FarFromHome, for i have found something that i recalled from my youth, something that stirred me with an exhilarating elation.

I do not know if you had the opportunity to experience this first hand, from 1958 it was, but i did. It was in the Claridge Threatre in Montclair NJ on Bloomfield Ave, as an eight year old. I swear to you i could feel and smell the salt spray.

It was the cinemascope film 'Windjammer'Smile.

*Tip-toes out of class*

" 'Fair lady Goldberry!' said Frodo at last, feeling his heart move with a joy that he did not understand. He stood as he had at times stood enchanted by fair elven-voices; but the spell that was now laid upon him was different: less keen and lofty was the delight, but deeper and nearer to mortal heart; marvellous and yet not strange."

Chapter VII: In the House of Tom Bombadil; FOTR's

Faerie contains many things besides elves and fays and besides dwarfs, witches, trolls, giants or dragons; it holds the seas, the sun, the moon, the sky; and the earth, and all things that are one in it: tree and bird, water and stone, wine and bread, and ourselves, mortal men, when we are enchanted."
— J.R.R. Tolkien














FarFromHome
Valinor


Feb 27 2014, 9:57am

Post #152 of 155 (2411 views)
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*Peers over spectacles* [In reply to] Can't Post

What's this? A movie? In the Reading Room?

Cool

That must have made quite an impression, sil! It still looks fantastic even on YouTube. I'm glad you enjoyed the salt spray and didn't get seasick! My landlubber son managed to get seasick watching Titanic (we were sitting too close to the screen, but still...)

They went in, and Sam shut the door.
But even as he did so, he heard suddenly,
deep and unstilled,
the sigh and murmur of the Sea upon the shores of Middle-earth.
From the unpublished Epilogue to the Lord of the Rings



Meneldor
Valinor


Feb 27 2014, 5:36pm

Post #153 of 155 (2380 views)
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I've heard of Windjammer [In reply to] Can't Post

but I've never seen it. Looks like it would be awe inspiring on the big screen.


They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters; These see the works of the Lord, and His wonders in the deep.


silneldor
Half-elven


Feb 28 2014, 4:39pm

Post #154 of 155 (2364 views)
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What riveted me right off the bat, [In reply to] Can't Post

was being plunged through the seas seeing the bow just before me. With the breadth of the screen, it was just exhilarating.

" 'Fair lady Goldberry!' said Frodo at last, feeling his heart move with a joy that he did not understand. He stood as he had at times stood enchanted by fair elven-voices; but the spell that was now laid upon him was different: less keen and lofty was the delight, but deeper and nearer to mortal heart; marvellous and yet not strange."

Chapter VII: In the House of Tom Bombadil; FOTR's

Faerie contains many things besides elves and fays and besides dwarfs, witches, trolls, giants or dragons; it holds the seas, the sun, the moon, the sky; and the earth, and all things that are one in it: tree and bird, water and stone, wine and bread, and ourselves, mortal men, when we are enchanted."
— J.R.R. Tolkien














Plurmo
Rohan

Mar 6 2014, 8:28am

Post #155 of 155 (2404 views)
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In reply to Brethil, NoWizardhe, Meneldor, Dernwyn, and CuriousG (who had the same intuition.) [In reply to] Can't Post

Regarding Merry and Ulmo what follows is more of a personal wish than a well established connection.

I don't think Ulmo drowned Primula and Drogo, but I'm sure he became aware of the accident and started to work to remedy the situation at once. Eventually Frodo was adopted by Bilbo. Frodo was twelve years old when Primula and Drogo were drowned. Twelve years later Merry was born, and near twelve years later he had become Frodo's Family after Bilbo was gone (there is some inconsistency regarding Merry's age.) By that time he was fully aware of the existence of the Ring and of the tale of Bilbo's journey. He had begun a solitary and secret vigil on Frodo that would last some sixteen years. In fact he became aware of the Ring in the year 3000, the year that the "shadow of Mordor lenghtened," and (I speculate that) somewhere when it was decided that Boromir was going to Rivendell instead of Faramir (who was meant to be the original choice of Ulmo in the Fellowship,) Merry warned Sam, Pippin and Fatty of the situation of Frodo and they began plans for their little fellowship to escort Frodo out of the Shire (which happened when the shadow of Mordor entered it in earnest in 3018.)

It is in the secret and conspiratorial ways in which Merry acted that I see the clear hand of Ulmo. By all means in my view page 39 of Unfinished Tales is one of the most important hints in all the tale of Middle-earth.

I will make a pause to explain the context of my words "specifically chosen" by Ulmo. I was talking about that form of reading where each member of the Fellowship is supposed to be somehow "tied" to one of the Aratar. That each member has a "valaparent" for the Quest. The Powers do love the Children of Eru, great and small. They can avoid Middle-earth but I suspect, or wish, that they are in awe of the Music of the closing of the Third Age. So they listen, but they are the Powers. They affect what they mind upon. And since they are themselves musical, I think they naturally proceed to sorting out the members of the Fellowship according to their respective empathy and the needs of the Quest. As for Gandalf, being Ainu, as opposed to a Children, his only possible "godfather," as it turned out to be, was the Composer Himself. This form of reading is very interesting because we can speculate which Vala would be interested in indirectly taking part in which event and so on. Certainly Gimli is not to be tied to Aulë. That's considered a faux pass. Even then it can be a combinatorial nightmare to do the tying. Hopefully Frodo's tie with Elbereth seem to be well established by Sador.

Now proceeding, personally (and I know this is very personal) there are two aspects regarding Merry that I consider. The first is that he seems to embody the continuation of Primula's care for Frodo. The second is that as a (supposedly) substitute of Faramir they present some similarities and have some common fate.

Regarding the first aspect, there are the long vigil and the formation of the little fellowship already mentioned, there is also the fact that Merry (sometimes along with Pippin) absorbs most of the evil directed at Frodo before they reach Weathertop (Old Man Willow, the Barrow-wight, the black breath at Bree) but the greatest danger they absorb is the one directed by Saruman when they literally crashed into the Uruk-hai at Parth Galen thus allowing Frodo and Sam to continue with their journey unhindered by themselves (because they would have followed,) by the three hunters, by Boromir, by Saruman, by the uruk-hai and perhaps by the Lugburz orcs on the eastern shores of Anduin. Before going on, another thing I would like to note is that while Merry didn't receive the stabbing of the Morgul blade himself at Weathertop instead of Frodo, he eventually paid back the Witch-king by stabbing him with the barrow blade.

When I say continuation of Primula's care I mean that after Primula died, Bilbo eventually stepped in and somewhere when Bilbo left Merry was mature enough to take his place as family, but when Bilbo finally returned and he and Frodo went to the West, the time for Merry in the life of Frodo ended, just like the time for Primula in his life would have ended before the others if things had happened in normal ways. Now, if it was through water that Primula's life was shortened, it was also through water (of the Ents) the life of Merry was aggrandized. As complementary beings in Frodo's existence the essence of what they represented was enduring and rewarding.

So I mean I think that after Primula died, well aware that he was about Frodo's prophetic involvement in the struggle against Morgoth and also about the ways in which Eru deals with destiny, Ulmo knew that from water (symbolically speaking) someone would come for Frodo, and when it came he instructed Merry to be Frodo's guardian. I wonder how many dreams about being drowned Merry had had before the one at Bombadil's. Ulmo can be very persuasive. Anyway, at first this guardianship was not meant for the Fellowship, and Merry would arguably be indeed the most apt and well positioned of the Hobbits to do as Elrond bid and return to the Shire to set up a watch and prepare the Hobbits for the advance of Evil upon them. But without Faramir on the Quest that possibility was put aside even while the little fellowship was being prepared. And after Merry and Pippin opened the way for Frodo to at last take his path alone with Sam at Parth Galen, it was time for Merry to take up his connection to Faramir in earnest.

Brandy-Hall has some of the elements found in Henneth Annûn. The first faces the Vale of Baranduin in the west while the High Hay at its back separates it from the dangers of the Old Forest and the Barrow-downs beyond. It protects the Shire up to the crossing of the East-West Road with Brandywine on the Bridge. The second faces the vale of Anduin in the west and has its back to the Ephel Dúath, the fence of Sauron beyond which Mordor lies. It protects Gondor down to the Crossroads and the way to the bridge of Osgiliath. Those strategic places where Ulmo seems very present (so I contend) are meant to endure in their mission even into the Fourth Age. In hindsight we know that Eowin, Princess of Ithilien was meant to be part of that story, but without Merry around, she would have died under the Witch-king's mace. But of course without Pippin I think Merry would have ended in the orc pyre of Éomer just as Faramir would have ended in the pyre of Denethor. So Pippin is Merry's saviour and also Faramir's saviour. A lot of work done by little Pippin in help of the agents of Ulmo. "And Manwë and Ulmo have from the beginning been allied..."

Certainly Faramir and Merry, along with Eowin, were the ones most exposed to the Black Breath. Of notice is that after Merry is brought back by Aragorn in the Houses of Healing and is alone with Pippin, he speaks of "things deeper and higher" and that now he knows about them a little. Also notable is that Merry was the sole member of the Fellowship put aside of the Fellowship (for about ten days) This isolation from the other members could require the Ulmo strength. It is he who first thinks about the stream that flows from the mountains and through Isengard, which was used by the ents to drown it, though it seems that the Ents acted independently of him.

Things like this, some great, some circumstantial and small, some irrelevant (except for those who want to find a relation by any means,) make me think about this connection between Meriadoc and Ulmo. A third aspect besides the Primula angle and the Faramir angle would be to consider which events Ulmo would in a sense want to witness. The trials of Dernhelm? The death Saruman? I wonder if his interest is to be revealed in the little things. CuriousG would have said that the Morgoth is in the details. So are the Aratar in this case.

This account is incomplete, but it is what I could do. It is not meant to convince, but rather to share a feeling. Apologies for the delay. I'm slow to write, things seldom align. I will never write a carefree Post-Script again.Wink

PS:...

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