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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Help w. Kili/orcs at Bard's scene

Avandel
Valinor

Feb 12 2014, 9:20pm

Post #1 of 15 (685 views)
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Help w. Kili/orcs at Bard's scene Can't Post

And I've watched DOS over 10 times in theaters, but did anyone catch what happens there? I THINK what goes on is Tauriel throws a knife into an orc, and Kili uses that same knife to kill an orc, and then the effort is so great he ends up on the floor screaming in pain.

Thanks for any details, stuff is just happening too fast for me to catch it all. I'm not even sure who Fili tells to "get down" and where he ends up - under the table?


Elondria
The Shire


Feb 12 2014, 9:49pm

Post #2 of 15 (399 views)
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Flurries and blurs [In reply to] Can't Post

You actually catch about as much as I have. This scene is on YouTube, so I've watched it a few times there to try to follow it all. I didn't notice that he used the same knife, but that makes sense (where would he have been hiding weapons?). I do know that the effort of killing the orc is what puts him on the floor screaming in pain. I think Fili is telling Bain to get down... under the table? Not sure on that, either. It's really hard to follow all the different movements, especially with the standard theater blur (or maybe that's just my local theater). I do remember one particularly brave moment where (I think) Fili throws himself onto an orc (it almost looks like a hug) to get it away from someone or smash it into something. Because, again, I'm pretty sure he doesn't have weapons. As for the rest of it, off the top of my head, it's just a flurry of action.

I hear your still voice calling my heart… I’d rip my world down to follow the sound. –Nine Lashes


CathrineB
Rohan


Feb 12 2014, 10:48pm

Post #3 of 15 (349 views)
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Hmmm [In reply to] Can't Post

It all does happen in a blur doesn't it?

Of what I recall - Sigrid is the first to notice, runs back in screaming, orc throws her on a bench - Fili attacks the orc with his bare arms and is thrown off. The girls end up under the table.
A bit unsure about Bain - he uses the bench to throw at an orc anyway.

Uh, Tauriel throws a knife or something at the orc pulling on Kili's leg. And she runs around on the walls for a moment. Legolas drop from the roof. Fili I think tries to protect Bain. Kili falls on the floor after helping Tauriel kill an orc. After the fight Oin (don't notice him much in the fight) is on the floor with Kili when Fili comes over.


Elondria
The Shire


Feb 12 2014, 10:57pm

Post #4 of 15 (328 views)
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Legolas [In reply to] Can't Post

I did seriously wonder where Legolas came from. Every time I see him drop in, I have a "Where on Earth did he come from??!" It always catches me off-guard that he drops from above while indoors, so there's nowhere to drop from. At least not that I could see. And I've never seen Sigrid thrown on the bench. Not doubting it happened; it was just too fast and now I'm going to watch for it. It's just a really good thing that Tauriel and Legolas were tracking them. As much flack as people give this scene for that, they were all pretty defenseless until the elves showed up.

I hear your still voice calling my heart… I’d rip my world down to follow the sound. –Nine Lashes


marillaraina
Rohan


Feb 12 2014, 10:59pm

Post #5 of 15 (328 views)
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subject [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
And I've watched DOS over 10 times in theaters, but did anyone catch what happens there? I THINK what goes on is Tauriel throws a knife into an orc, and Kili uses that same knife to kill an orc, and then the effort is so great he ends up on the floor screaming in pain.

Thanks for any details, stuff is just happening too fast for me to catch it all. I'm not even sure who Fili tells to "get down" and where he ends up - under the table?


I think that's what happens. I think the orc is about to go after Tauriel or perhaps grabs her wrist? Anyway, Kili jumps on it from behind and stabs it with that knife, which is how ends up on the floor. I saw a gif of the stabbing scene, which goes slower than the scene in the movie and that's what it seemed to show.

Unfortunately I'm not entirely sure about the knife, but I assumed it was the one she'd used earlier in the scene because where else would it have come from?


Avandel
Valinor

Feb 12 2014, 11:12pm

Post #6 of 15 (302 views)
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Thanks to all who responded! [In reply to] Can't Post

Thought I was just missing too much - which I am! Because all are having some heroic, fast-thinking moments, but I fee l like I'm missing the details - just can't wait for the DVD/BR!. I'm sure I saw Kili stab an orc, which is pretty good considering the state he is in, so I want to appreciate all of that. Did love that Oin instantly responds by throwing stuff.


FoFo64
Rivendell


Feb 13 2014, 3:33pm

Post #7 of 15 (186 views)
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He jumped in through a hole in the roof [In reply to] Can't Post

Remember that the Orcs snuck into Bard's house by jumping from rooftop to rooftop and bursting through the ceiling. It can be assumed that Legolas climbed the rooftop and jumped through the same hole.


In Reply To
I did seriously wonder where Legolas came from. Every time I see him drop in, I have a "Where on Earth did he come from??!" It always catches me off-guard that he drops from above while indoors, so there's nowhere to drop from. At least not that I could see. And I've never seen Sigrid thrown on the bench. Not doubting it happened; it was just too fast and now I'm going to watch for it. It's just a really good thing that Tauriel and Legolas were tracking them. As much flack as people give this scene for that, they were all pretty defenseless until the elves showed up.


'It is a strange fate that we should suffer so much fear and doubt over so small a thing...such a little thing...' Boromir; Fellowship of the Ring Film


Avandel
Valinor

Feb 13 2014, 3:49pm

Post #8 of 15 (180 views)
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agreed [In reply to] Can't Post

"As much flack as people give this scene for that, they were all pretty defenseless until the elves showed up."

Especially w. the dwarves taken pretty much by surprise, without their usual weapons, and Kili poisoned and in pain. Plus IMO it is an excellently choreographed fight (even tho I miss some details) in very close quarters. I'm even proud of the little girls for not just being depicted as frail screaming children (which might have been expected) but they fight back too, and keep their heads about them going under the table. If there are favorite elf moments for me, this is one of them.

Plus I'm impressed the oldest girl is helping to hold Kili down and then gets the youngest to help. I like all that because when I first heard about the addition of these girls I thought they'd be these "pretty butterfly" types who were really there just to ratchet up audience sympathy and possibly scream a lot (and whose acting skills might be questionable since evidently they were not auditioned in a huge casting sweep). They do scream, LOL, but it's believable and I like the girls' portrayal so far, and Bain's - he seems like such a worthy son to Bard - good acting too w. Luke Evans.


DwellerInDale
Rohan


Feb 13 2014, 4:28pm

Post #9 of 15 (242 views)
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Blow by blow account [In reply to] Can't Post

OK Av, here we go with the fight at Bard's house:

  • The first orc jumps down behind Sigrid as she stands on the porch. She screams and ducks inside, slamming the door.
  • Bain and Tilda hear Sigrid scream and look up, frightened. Fili looks up as well.
  • The orc comes through the door. Oin turns and hits him with his medicine pots. A second orc comes through the roof. The first orc slashes at Sigrid, knocking her backward onto the bench.
  • Fili attacks the orc at the door. Sigrid goes under the table, turning the bench inward. The orc pushes Fili away to the floor.
  • A third orc comes through the hole in the roof. Tilda hits him with a thrown plate. Bain shoves the second bench at this orc, knocking him off balance, then upends the bench at the orc.
  • A fourth orc comes through the hole in the roof.

Meanwhile Outside: Bofur is saved at the last moment by an Elvish arrow.
  • Back inside, the orcs knock the table over. A fifth orc comes over the railing outside...just in time to be stabbed by Tauriel as she arrives at the door. The orc falls. Tauriel draws her second dagger and assesses the situation.
  • Tauriel takes out an orc with her right-hand dagger, finishing him off with a thrust to the throat from her left-hand dagger.
  • Tauriel pivots, spinning clockwise, and takes out another orc with her dagger.
  • Legolas comes through the hole in the roof and assesses the situation.
  • Tauriel knife-thrusts an orc.
  • Legolas uses his bow as a weapon, striking an orc to the floor.
  • One last orc with a "scarecrow" face comes through the hole in the roof. Behind him, Fili picks himself up off the floor.
  • Tauriel fakes out the orc with her left hand, then stabs him with her right-hand dagger.
  • An orc attacks Kili as he lies in bed, defenseless. As the orc raises his sword, Tauriel spins and throws her dagger, catching the orc in the throat. Kili falls out of bed.
  • An orc attacks Tauriel near the front door, but she neatly sidesteps him, and then (wait for it) does a great "Parkour" (Parkorc?) move, jumping on the wall and using it to spin around in the air, draw her right-hand dagger, kick the orc, and then backhand stab the same dumb orc she knifed earlier, as he apparently climbed back up to the porch (not a smart move). This time he's dead meat. Boy, I'm getting excited just describing all this!
  • Legolas slits an orc's throat, immediately goes after another with his right-hand dagger, and gets him, too. Legolas then spins counterclockwise, draws both daggers, and knifes two orcs coming at him from right and left.
  • An orc attacks Legolas from his right side. Legolas calmly dispatches him.
  • Tauriel slashes an orc from behind, then spins and slashes him from the front.
  • Fili pushes Bain to the floor and yells "Get down!" The scarecrow orc lurks behind Fili.
  • Just as the scarecrow orc is about to kill Fili from behind, Tauriel spins, locks the orc's right wrist with a forearm lock, and uses her dagger to block the orc's blow, saving Fili's life. Kili retrieves Tauriel's thrown dagger and stabs the orc in his right side from behind.
  • Kili falls on the floor, screaming in pain. Tauriel looks down at him, astonished.
  • Fimbul, sensing things aren't going well for his side, runs out the door, jumps over the railing, and lands in the boat. He screams to Bolg, "Oakenshield has gone!"
  • Just inside the door, Legolas spins and stabs one more orc. In the far background, Tauriel does the same.
  • Legolas' orc falls over the railing into the boat, ejecting poor Fimbul upward, to be decapitated by Legolas. Splash. Inside, Bain says, "You killed them all." End of fight.


Don't mess with my favorite female elf.












Elondria
The Shire


Feb 13 2014, 5:24pm

Post #10 of 15 (173 views)
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Wow [In reply to] Can't Post

This is fantastic! I knew I was missing a lot, but had no idea I was missing so much! For instance, I had no idea Tauriel had ever directly saved Fili. How on earth did you see all this?

I hear your still voice calling my heart… I’d rip my world down to follow the sound. –Nine Lashes

(This post was edited by Elondria on Feb 13 2014, 5:25pm)


Avandel
Valinor

Feb 13 2014, 7:44pm

Post #11 of 15 (146 views)
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THANK YOU! I missed a LOT! [In reply to] Can't Post

Thank you so much for posting these details!!!!! HeartHeartHeart Loved this fight scene but seeing it all in print - helps to really appreciate how intricate this fight really was - fabulous! And all the times I've seen DOS and never picked up on Tauriel saving Fili - I'm having one of those "you know, I really like her moments" LOL.Tongue

Saved all this off as a file for me which I do with some stuff so I can appreciate the DVD/BR better. Really fabulous of you to take the time to detail all that - aaagh! I want to go see DOS again but think it's gone from theaters, probably and I am trapped by snow, anyway. But this helped me a lot - this was one of the scenes in theater I was frantic to have a "freeze" or replay button (tho that's pretty much true of the whole film).


Yeah!, Tauriel - you go with those daggers!Cool


DwellerInDale
Rohan


Feb 14 2014, 4:20am

Post #12 of 15 (117 views)
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You're welcome! [In reply to] Can't Post

 


"Um, that's nice, Peter, showing us how to throw a "leg spinner", but we don't really play cricket
in Mirkwood. So now if you don't mind, I have some orcs to slice up."


.


Don't mess with my favorite female elf.












kilifili
The Shire


Feb 14 2014, 6:50am

Post #13 of 15 (107 views)
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Thanks [In reply to] Can't Post

Thank you for this analysis in detailSmile
I rewatched this scene in youtube about 20 times trying to catch up all details, and failed. For example I didnt notice Tauriel saving Fili. And from where Kili got the knife.
Only one thing is missing in ur description: Kili lying on the bed is kicking away one of the orcs before falling from the bed.
In general I have to say I would wish this scene to be a bit slower - I am too old to follow the fast changes and in cinema it annoyed me a bit not being able to notice all characters actions. For example, I totally missed what Oin is doing after throwing the dishes at one of the orcs.

"Why Bilbo Baggins? Perhaps it is because I am afraid and he gives me courage"


Cirashala
Grey Havens


Feb 14 2014, 7:44am

Post #14 of 15 (101 views)
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THANK YOU!!! [In reply to] Can't Post

For the record, you may want to mention to some of the Taurili haters that Kili was NOT in fact saving Tauriel's life in that skirmish- according to your analysis, Kili was attacking the orc that tried to kill FILI, not Tauriel- therefore he was saving his brother's life, not hers Cool

I know there are a lot of POV's regarding the "romance" (I personally think it's completely one sided, and that Tauriel's side is more curiosity about an open outsider and compassion- like Florence Nightingale syndrome).

But at least we can now say with the whole debate on whether or not she stayed because she loves Kili or whether or not her hesitance was because she loves Legolas (I personally think she has feelings for Legolas because of the way she reacted to Thranduil saying NOPE), that Kili "saving her life in the fight" had NOTHING to do with it, because he was in fact saving his BROTHER, not her.

And that could have been yet another thing that humanizes (for lack of a better word) him for her- he has a mother that's waiting for him at home, and a brother that he's willing to save even when he's dying and in horrific pain himself. She didn't have a biological family because she's an orphan (though I wish they would have mentioned this in the TE, but maybe it will be saved for EE) and to see one as closely knit as his MUST have struck a chord with her. Her interest in him isn't romantic- it's that he seems to be similar to her, and has everything that SHE deep down wants (the ability to travel and see the world, a family, a MOTHER) so it's intriguing to her and she finally sees someone whom she can empathize with, and she followed them out of a sense of compassion- she didn't want him robbed of his adventure and his family like she was.

Thanks for posting this Dweller! It's one of the few things tiding me over til the TE comes out Laugh Unfortunately, my husband's wacky schedule and our financial position means that, unlike AUJ, I won't be able to see DOS in theaters 20 times Unsure I've seen it 5 times, and it's still playing (surprisingly- it has 1 3D showing and 2 regular showings still) but with my husband's schedule being all over the place right now, I am not certain I will be able to see it again (I really wish I could! Frown).



Avandel
Valinor

Feb 14 2014, 5:25pm

Post #15 of 15 (91 views)
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Love this PJ image! [In reply to] Can't Post

He really does get in there w. the actorsSly!!!!

And - wow, those orcs are UGLY. Bad enough on screen but ugly in real life too.

 
 

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