Our Sponsor Sideshow Collectibles Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien
Do you enjoy the 100% volunteer, not for profit services of TheOneRing.net?
Consider a donation!

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Northern Mine Barrage :
Smaug and Azog conversation as a prologue for TABA

Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Boatswain


Feb 7 2014, 2:07pm

Post #1 of 14 (648 views)
Shortcut
Smaug and Azog conversation as a prologue for TABA Can't Post

Thinking about this I think Boyens said that Smaug was searching for the Arkenstone too. Perhaps we will see Azog or another Sauron´s minion presenting his greetings from Sauron,perhaps promising him more rewards. Smaug secretly coveting the ring?

So Azog departs and Smaug is warned that he must find the arkenstone among that enormous mountain of gold, a hard task even for him.

Wen he has his encounter with Bilbo,he finds it but between all the mayhem he losts it and Bilbo takes it. Sooner than that, in DOS Sauron says to Azog that he must forget about Thorin because death will come upon all anyway.

This will show up a veryTolkienesque caracteristic of de baddies, it would have been wiser for Sauron letting Azog pursue Thorin and co,perhaps he would have killed all of them. And Smaug with time would have found the jewel(he wasn´t sleeping he was sumerged in thegold looking for itXD)

So, it would have been wiser to Smaug remaining in the mountain,but he goes to Laketown in a rage and we all know what happens. Both Sauron and Smaug had a plan to follow,but both let themselves go trusting in his own power and committed fatal mistakes for themselves. Because the time Azog and Bolg spent in Dol Guldur together allowed the party reach Thranduils halls, because maybe they would have been killed in Mirkwood by the orcs. Anyway, this delay allowed our dwarves and Hobbit reach the mountain and the Arkentsone

Perhaps in that meeting Azog tells Smaug to not leaving the mountain until Sauron itself arrived with his armies, because there was a partyof dwarves pretending to steal the jewell. Thats why Smaugs has all this info about Thorin,and it would make for a good secret meeting like the meeting in Bree at thebegining of DOS.

It could go like Azog saying: Do not leave the mountain, Sauron asks for this(and he could even remember Smaug the prophecy about the ravens)

And right after that the attack upon Laketown starts, so the : What have we done? of Bilbo will have a new meaning

The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true!

(This post was edited by isaac on Feb 7 2014, 2:11pm)


Otaku-sempai
First Mate


Feb 7 2014, 2:55pm

Post #2 of 14 (274 views)
Shortcut
Maybe a Ringwraith should act as Sauron's messenger [In reply to] Can't Post

One of the Ringwraiths, unclad, could enter the Mountain without need of an opening and could not be harmed by Smaug. That may be the best way to show Sauron attempting to recruit the Dragon of Erebor. It also shows what at least one of the Nazgul has been doing since we saw the Witch-king in An Unexpected Journey.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Feb 7 2014, 2:57pm)


xxxyyy
Rigger

Feb 7 2014, 3:50pm

Post #3 of 14 (234 views)
Shortcut
Good idea. Maybe not the prologue. [In reply to] Can't Post

The prologue needs to be Sauron in is fair form (Cumberbatch) and his backstory.


Otaku-sempai
First Mate


Feb 7 2014, 4:01pm

Post #4 of 14 (237 views)
Shortcut
Actually, I'm not sure that TaBA needs a prologue [In reply to] Can't Post

Blasphemy, I know, but I could see the movie getting right into the thick of things with Smaug approaching Esgaroth from the far end of the lake.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


book Gandalf
Rigger


Feb 7 2014, 4:20pm

Post #5 of 14 (238 views)
Shortcut
no [In reply to] Can't Post

if smaug was searching for the arkenstone, why is he asleep on top of it? it wouldn't take much to find a glowing gem in a pitch black dwarf cavern.

your idea makes me sick in my mouth a little. its too much diversion from the text , and nothing i recognise as tolkine hobbit. its too far.

if all this stuff was too happen i will explode

This is a serious journey, not a hobbit walking-party.


burgahobbit
Rigger


Feb 7 2014, 4:59pm

Post #6 of 14 (201 views)
Shortcut
That's a good idea [In reply to] Can't Post

But I still don't like the fact that the Ringwraiths can enter statues, pass through rock doors, disappear etc. In the books they are just wraiths, not dead spirits, and re-watching both trilogies its going to be weird to see them riding horses and flying on foul beasts in LOTR. Why not just instantly float around to wherever you want to go? Crazy It also won't make sense to see them getting a fire torch stuck in the face, and being washed away by water. Why not just evaporate like the Witch-king did in AUJ and reappear on the other side of the river?


Other TORNadoes have said it best, PJ should have included the barrow-wights who were stricken from LOTR, put them in the High Fells, and left the cannon Nazgul origins alone.

"I've found it is the small things, everyday deeds of ordinary folk, that keeps the darkness at bay. Simple acts of kindness and love. Why Bilbo Baggins? Perhaps it is because I’m afraid, and he gives me courage.” - Gandalf the Grey.

"Do not be afraid Mithrandir, if ever you should need my help, I will come." - Lady Galadriel.

(This post was edited by burgahobbit on Feb 7 2014, 4:59pm)


Elskidor
Rigger


Feb 7 2014, 5:08pm

Post #7 of 14 (201 views)
Shortcut
I don't like it [In reply to] Can't Post

Not sure Sauron needs a prologue really. I'm not sure what it should be though. Lets keep it as something to do with Thorin, Bilbo or Smaug. I could live with the white council too.

ROUND 8 is up. Tolkien character elimination game semifinals part 2.

http://newboards.theonering.net/forum/gforum/perl/gforum.cgi?post=712653;sb=post_time;so=DESC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread


or found in the Pollantir


Annatar598
Rigger


Feb 7 2014, 5:59pm

Post #8 of 14 (172 views)
Shortcut
I was just thinking of this the other day [In reply to] Can't Post

And was going to post it on TORn.

I love this idea.

I always loved the scenes in FOTR where a character described how Sauron's servants tried to recruit their people. In FOTR (the book), Gloin's account of the black rider at Erebor confronting Dain was chilling!

Imagine what a terrifically dark beginning it could be for a black rider to walk into Erebor in darkness and awaken Smaug... The showdown between two egotistical maniacs (yes, the better-characterized black riders in the books are rather egotistical) would be such a delight.

But then it would be a impractical should we not see a connection between Sauron and Smaug...

I do believe Smaug is allied with Sauron. These movies have been building to such a revelation since The White Council scene in AUJ and I've seen too many TV serials to not see the growing list of evidence.

"[Annatar598] is an overzealous apologist [for PJ]" - Certain TORn member.

Really? Alright...

Well, proud to be one I guess.


Otaku-sempai
First Mate


Feb 7 2014, 6:36pm

Post #9 of 14 (163 views)
Shortcut
The Wraiths need disguises to interact with Mortals [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
But I still don't like the fact that the Ringwraiths can enter statues, pass through rock doors, disappear etc. In the books they are just wraiths, not dead spirits, and re-watching both trilogies its going to be weird to see them riding horses and flying on foul beasts in LOTR. Why not just instantly float around to wherever you want to go? Crazy It also won't make sense to see them getting a fire torch stuck in the face, and being washed away by water. Why not just evaporate like the Witch-king did in AUJ and reappear on the other side of the river?


Other TORNadoes have said it best, PJ should have included the barrow-wights who were stricken from LOTR, put them in the High Fells, and left the cannon Nazgul origins alone.



The Ringwraiths are normally invisible to most normal folk so they need disguises if they want to be able to question people. We could still encounter Wights in the dungeons and pits of Dol Guldur.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


book Gandalf
Rigger


Feb 7 2014, 6:57pm

Post #10 of 14 (150 views)
Shortcut
ringwraithes [In reply to] Can't Post

well that idea has obviously been thrown in the bin because im pretty sure i saw one in AUJ

This is a serious journey, not a hobbit walking-party.


Otaku-sempai
First Mate


Feb 7 2014, 7:10pm

Post #11 of 14 (145 views)
Shortcut
I just assume... [In reply to] Can't Post

...the audience is allowed to see the Witch-king because Radagast is capable of seeing him.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


FaramirAndEowynMorningStar
Rigger


Feb 7 2014, 7:17pm

Post #12 of 14 (152 views)
Shortcut
Sorry, but no. Would not work at all. [In reply to] Can't Post

Smaug's asleep and has not woken up for some time, judging by how he is under all the gold.
And Smaug wouldn't understand Black Speech anyway, at least I don't think he would.

And anyway, why should Smaug need to find the Arkenstone? He does not need it, and he has all the gold lying at his feet. One little gem would not make any difference to him. He knows its value to the dwarves however, but he would not care less about them.

..The Lord of Silver Fountains
.....The King of Carven Stone
..The King Under the Mountain
.......Shall come into his own

..And the bells will ring in gladness
......At the Mountain King's return
..But all shall fail in sadness
....And the lake will shine and burn


sauget.diblosio
Sailing Master


Feb 8 2014, 12:58pm

Post #13 of 14 (69 views)
Shortcut
No. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Salmacis81
Boatswain


Feb 8 2014, 8:53pm

Post #14 of 14 (44 views)
Shortcut
Why does Sauron need to be in the prologue? [In reply to] Can't Post

The prologue to FotR already tells us all we need to know about Sauron's backstory. People who watch the Hobbit films first aren't really going to know who Sauron is or why he's important, but we'll have to chalk that up to LotR being made before The Hobbit.

Anyway, if there is a prologue to TaBA, I think it needs to involve Dain somehow.

 
 

Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.