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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
More from Fili plz!!!

Avandel
Valinor

Feb 5 2014, 10:08pm

Post #1 of 24 (947 views)
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More from Fili plz!!! Can't Post

So there's been a fair number of comments re Fili getting more screen time, and while I personally think the camera loves Aidan Turner, who has really impressed me as AT is constantly "on", constantly responding to Thorin and totally "IN" every scene he is in, IMO there just has NOT been enough Fili. Think Dean O'Gorman has done well with any scene he has been in, and wish there had been one extra scene or two w. Thorin/Dwalin/Balin re grooming Fili as the heir.

DOS was a great improvement in that respect, but I still would have liked to have seen a scene where Fili is overhearing the conversation between Kili and Tauriel, maybe comes up behind Thorin at the Laketown steps confrontation, has some sort of hero moment in the river. I know this is a crowded field and Dwalin is rightly by Thorin's side, but IMO from the Appendices, Dean O'Gorman can really fight well, w. those dual swords. And to me Fili's dynamics are really interesting, because he is Thorin's heir, the older brother, but he truly loves Kili, and now there's the complication of Kili and Tauriel - and an ELF just saved his brother's life.

REALLY hope that TABA puts Fili more in the driver's seat, somehow. Total speculation but I could see a scene where there's a huge argument with Thorin at some point w. Thorin's attitude - which is interesting because the elves did imprison them, but Tauriel saved Kili - Fili trying to tell an angry, dragon-mad Thorin that elves aren't ALL bad (am sure that would go over well.)
And of course since Smaug is on his way to Laketown there's hope for a huge Fili hero-moment, and I say it's about time. Maybe there's a confrontation w. Bard, or he helps Bard somehow, seeing as I would guess Kili is not completely well and may not be fully mobile.

W. all the fuss over Kili and Tauriel, I am surprised that PJ didn't spend more time exploring the Thorin/Fili/Kili dynamics. Just the fan drawings on the Internet tell me there's an understandable appeal of bonded brothers, and an uncle that becomes a father-figure. It's something people relate to - to the fearsome Thorin (and Dwalin) helping to raise these "boys".
Seems like a missed opportunity so far.

And as an aside - TOTAL SPECULATION - so assuming Oin, Kili, Fili, and Bofur flee Laketown at some point during the chaos Smaug causes - do they just march up the road to Erebor through Dale - because except for Oin who was some sort of traveling merchant w. Gloin re the Appendices (e.g. they were around for the fall of Erebor but not in the castle - maybe in Dale) none of them have ever been there, and the terrain looks pretty harsh. And will they grab a boat or what?


wonderinglinguist
Lorien

Feb 5 2014, 10:48pm

Post #2 of 24 (459 views)
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100% agree [In reply to] Can't Post

I also feel like there's so much they could have done with these characters and I really don't understand why they didn't. It does feel like a missed opportunity. I'm hoping they'll take advantage of situations in TABA to let Fili shine a bit.

Some scenarios I've considered they could use: the dwarves still in Laketown thinking the rest of the company is dead (Smaug) and looking to Fili as a leader and him having to deal with now being the heir. Or when they make it to Erebor (assuming they will) and reunite with the rest of the company, Thorin is going mad (could have lots of great material with the familial dynamics alone), and the company again kind of looking to Fili. Something like that.

Whatever they do, I hope the relationships between those three and Fili's status as heir are further addressed/developed.

keep smiling Smile


Elondria
The Shire


Feb 5 2014, 10:52pm

Post #3 of 24 (450 views)
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Plenty of opportunity [In reply to] Can't Post

I absolutely love Kili and how much screen-time he’s had, but I agree that O’Gorman is just as good an actor and has an equally important (technically moreso) character than Kili. Fili should definitely be spotlighted a little bit. I can see ample opportunity for this in upcoming scenes in DOS EE and TABA, assuming they are taken. It really wouldn’t take much. A short exchange of casual words. Glances in each other’s direction. An indication of their history together. It seriously bothers me that Thorin seems to have chosen a favorite “son” and it’s not the heir. Maybe there isn’t actually any favoritism here, but the imbalance in screen time and interaction really makes it seem that way.

Yes, Fili had more in DOS, but I argue that it doesn’t entirely count because it was only in reaction to Kili. The only time he said anything not Kili-related was when he told Bard to take his family and leave. And the first half of the movie, he only said two lines, both the same: “Kili!!” When he’s not interacting with Kili, he’s a background character, and this must be rectified.

And he was so tripped out at the beginning of the journey. I absolutely loved watching him unload all his weapons one-by-one on Bilbo when they met, and then I loved watching the elves search him and keep finding one more hidden blade. He clearly knows how to use them, so let’s see it!

I’m all for arguments with Thorin, but I would like their relationship established first. Is it normal for them to be at odds? Or is this something new to them?

Maybe a reunion scene first? Last Thorin knew, he’d just left the two most important people in his life (theoretically) in a town that he just sent a raving-mad dragon to. And Fili and Kili, seeing said raving-mad dragon, will likely think Thorin et al are dead. So maybe some emotion on seeing each other okay.

Unless Kili heals perfectly (not to mention quickly as he only has about five minutes before Smaug reaches them), I imagine Fili will have a lot more chance to be the center of attention. I see much heroism in his future. But I also see him fading into the background like he did in AUJ. Aside from the fact that he was always with Kili, he was just another of the dwarves to me before I saw him confront Thorin on Kili’s behalf in DOS.

There is so much I’m hoping for from the EEs, and I don’t want this to take away from those, but Fili is a key thing that IMO definitely needs to be embellished in the added scenes, especially concerning his relationship to Thorin. See first paragraph.

I hear your still voice calling my heart… I’d rip my world down to follow the sound. –Nine Lashes


CathrineB
Rohan


Feb 5 2014, 11:18pm

Post #4 of 24 (425 views)
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Yes! [In reply to] Can't Post

I want so much more Fili too! It made me so happy that we got more of him in DoS, but it's not enough! We need a whole lot more if you ask me! He's really charming and amusing, he's loyal and I just adore Fili and Kili together.

I want to see some sort of leader Fili in the next movie. It just seems like something that would fall natural after Lake Town you know.


macfalk
Valinor


Feb 5 2014, 11:41pm

Post #5 of 24 (416 views)
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I agree with your thoughts... [In reply to] Can't Post

Next movie needs more Fili, and less Kili.



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


KingTurgon
Rohan


Feb 6 2014, 12:27am

Post #6 of 24 (392 views)
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Yes [In reply to] Can't Post

I am sick of Kili. Why did he get so much attention? If they had to add that stupid love sub-plot, wouldn't it have made more sense to have the heir to the throne in danger? It would create more tension and PJ could have delved into the Thorin-Fili relationship more, which as others have said needs more screen time.


Riven Delve
Grey Havens


Feb 6 2014, 12:30am

Post #7 of 24 (384 views)
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Sign me up for more Fili too! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


"I did shatter his lantern, and that would have been pretty fair shooting, I can tell you, if I had been aiming at it!"



Na Vedui
Rohan


Feb 6 2014, 12:51am

Post #8 of 24 (396 views)
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Yes please! [In reply to] Can't Post

They've established in DOS that Fili will not automatically accept everything Thorin does, if he doesn't approve of it, so the stage is set for some possible interesting ructions at the Mountain. Here's hoping...
I like Kili (and Tauriel, for that matter) but want Fili to take his place equally with him and not be overshadowed.


Avandel
Valinor

Feb 6 2014, 2:53am

Post #9 of 24 (407 views)
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Fili's look at Bard's [In reply to] Can't Post

To me spoke volumes - relief of course re Kili, some anger, - like Fili's thoughts are churning about elves, the situation, everything. I know there's angst about the ending but this movie I think will have me chewing my nails from the second TABA opens.


TheSexyBeard
Lorien


Feb 6 2014, 1:19pm

Post #10 of 24 (299 views)
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Agree here [In reply to] Can't Post

We've not seen as much of Fili, compared to Kili, but what we have seem is that he is quite noble and could possibly possess some great leadership skills. I hope he gets given something heroic to do before the Bo5A to cement him in the viewers minds a bit more. Perhaps he could save one of Bard's daughters during Smaug's attack or something similar.

Yes, my username is terrible.


Elanor of Rohan
Lorien


Feb 6 2014, 2:23pm

Post #11 of 24 (297 views)
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there are basically two reasons [In reply to] Can't Post

for Fili's relatively small presence on screen so far.

1. the delay in the "right casting" which we have already talked about. If Fili was singled out in a wide shot, or if he said one or two lines in a scene with a lot of speakers, of course it was easier to erase him altogether than reshoot everything he did. So only a handful of scenes have Fili as one the main actors in AUJ.

2. all the scenes we seem to be yearning for (I'm one of those who wants more Fili, of course!) are quiet moments, conversation scenes which explain relationships and of course, in an action packed middle act like DOS, the best place to have them seems the EE. I am hopeful (maybe a fool's hope, who knows?Wink.
Let's think about TTT:
some of the additional scenes were for example
- Theodred's killing and funeral (an enrichment to Theoden's desperation on his son's tomb)
- most of Eowyn's conversations with Aragorn on the way to Helm's Deep (they kept all the Wargs for the TE, though) which introduced the theme of Eowyn's desperate, unrequited love for Aragorn and which explained her decision to disguise herself as Dernhelm in the final chapter.
- erm... also Gimli's description of bearded female dwarves
Shocked

So.. they kept all the eye candy in and left out all the quiet moments. In Rotk all Faramir and Eowyn's story-line was later added in the EE !

What am I hoping to see in Dos EE? Some conversation scenes which explain Fili's relationship with his younger brother (so not only flirting with Elves for KiliWink) and with his uncle Thorin, in order to pave the way for the big confrontation scenes and action scenes of TABA .
And if they do pick-ups next May, who knows what they are going to add??


Elondria
The Shire


Feb 6 2014, 4:54pm

Post #12 of 24 (270 views)
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I sincerely hope [In reply to] Can't Post

you're right. It makes total sense to me that that's what they're doing. I know from experience (more with LOTR than with AUJ, though) that my favorite scenes that really endear the movie to me are from the EEs. I guess I'm just afraid that the people in charge of content don't see this as important as we do.

I hear your still voice calling my heart… I’d rip my world down to follow the sound. –Nine Lashes


kilifili
The Shire


Feb 6 2014, 8:28pm

Post #13 of 24 (232 views)
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I agree... [In reply to] Can't Post

I am new in the forum and english is not my mother tongue, so please forgive me my spelling mistakes :)
I so much agree with you all. I love the silent moments in AUJ and DOS, the moments when we get to know that there is a deep bonding between the two brothers. Filis "I will carry him if I must" and "I belong with my brother" touched me deeply. I am so much hoping we will see more of this in the EE!
And Dean O Gorman is such a talented (and cute...) guy, I want to see more of him!

"Do you think she could have loved me...?"


Meneldor
Tol Eressea


Feb 6 2014, 8:59pm

Post #14 of 24 (219 views)
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Welcome kilifili! [In reply to] Can't Post

Your English is wunderbar, much better than many of us who grew up with it.

I agree that they do a great job of portraying brothers even though they rarely talk to each other.


They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters; These see the works of the Lord, and His wonders in the deep.


kilifili
The Shire


Feb 6 2014, 9:05pm

Post #15 of 24 (214 views)
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thank you [In reply to] Can't Post

glad to be here, great forum

"Do you think she could have loved me...?"


Bombadil
Half-elven


Feb 6 2014, 9:09pm

Post #16 of 24 (205 views)
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kilifili...were you able to go to the Berlin Premier?// [In reply to] Can't Post

 


kilifili
The Shire


Feb 6 2014, 9:24pm

Post #17 of 24 (209 views)
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Noo... [In reply to] Can't Post

Nooo, I couldnt make it, Berlin is on the other side of the country... Still sad I missed it, especially after seeing the videos and interviews from Berlin... Frown

"Do you think she could have loved me...?"


Avandel
Valinor

Feb 6 2014, 9:53pm

Post #18 of 24 (215 views)
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Faramir and Eowyn [In reply to] Can't Post

To me this was always a far more interesting relationship than Aragorn and Arwen, the meeting and bonding of two badly wounded, emotionally hurt people "were you the blissful queen of Gondor I would still love you" *sigh*HeartHeartHeart

And Faramir and Eowyn to me are much more interesting as characters - desperately carrying on on LOTR as the "leaders" e.g. Denethor and Theoden falter or fail. It's one of the more maddening things I feel about PJ who does so much that I love - there'll be these great relationships and dynamics, right there in front of him (Faramir/Eowyn, Thorin/Fili/Kili) but he opts to focus on (to me) same old, same old, and embellish those stories, even if he has to make stuff up to do it - e.g boy + girl romance which for me is usually a snooze fest. Nice but boring, and adding extra angst like Arwen's mysterious "dying" was just annoying.

*Gloomily* so far the relationship dynamics that fascinate me the most are Bilbo and Thorin, tho IMO even that hasn't been given enough screen time. Thorin and Thranduil are interesting (also not enough screen time), as is Bilbo's relationship with the Ring. Love Kili and Fili of course, but they didn't even have a nice quick shot of Fili listening to Tauriel and Kili, and I would have loved to see what Fili thought of that interaction. Didn't have to be long or anything. Legolas and Thranduil could have been interesting, but instead they opted for this silly jealousy thread. *sigh*


marillaraina
Rohan


Feb 7 2014, 2:06am

Post #19 of 24 (182 views)
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subject [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I am sick of Kili. Why did he get so much attention? If they had to add that stupid love sub-plot, wouldn't it have made more sense to have the heir to the throne in danger? It would create more tension and PJ could have delved into the Thorin-Fili relationship more, which as others have said needs more screen time.


Why? It's not only "heirs" who are important, it's not only would be kings and kings who can do great things or make a difference. It's one of the themes of the Hobbit and LOTR. There is a king(Thranduil), and two kings without thrones(Thorin and Bard) already with important parts in the story. Why would an heir to one of the thrones need necessarily to be highlight?

Fili getting more screen time is one thing, that's valid, but not because "oh he's more important because he's heir to the throne and thus more important than his brother". That's not a good reason, IMO, because I don't think it's true.

And it wouldn't really create more tension because if Fili was in danger of dying, well, then they've got a spare. It's not like either Fili or Kili dying does anything to upset the line of succession, Kili dies, Fili is already there, Fili dies, Kili is there to take his place. There is no "heir" tension because there are two of them. It's only when both of them die that it's an issue.

So not a lot of new tension and what tension there would be would actually be focused on Kili, worrying about not only losing his brother but becoming the next in line and how he'd rise to the challenge of that responsibility.

In point of fact what you'd probably end up with was even more focus on Kili. Writers have a tough time passing up that sort of angst. Also that subplot didn't do much to delve into Thorin and Kili's relationship aside from the one scene, which was Thorin leaving him behind, so it's unlikely it would have done much to delve into Thorin and Fili's either.


(This post was edited by marillaraina on Feb 7 2014, 2:09am)


Elanor of Rohan
Lorien


Feb 7 2014, 2:34pm

Post #20 of 24 (150 views)
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scenes with additions in the EEs [In reply to] Can't Post

there are many of them, so maybe in the case of Fili's scenes, we would probably need just some additional shots here and there.
Nice point, Avandel, the one regarding Fili's point of view in overhearing the starlight conversation. I'd love to see his reaction when he suddenly realizes that Kili has let the stone slip out of the prison bars... Maybe he was the only witness when their mother Dis gave Kili this token, and, who knows, maybe he received a similar one
Gosh, I'm becoming tooo sentimental Blush


Elondria
The Shire


Feb 7 2014, 5:36pm

Post #21 of 24 (136 views)
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Fili's unseen reactions [In reply to] Can't Post

I'd never considered that Fili heard the starlight conversation - or that he might have a stone of his own. Although, Fili isn't nearly as reckless as Kili, so Dis probably trusted him to be more careful with his life. I tried to keep track of where the dwarves' cells were in relation to each other, but to no avail, so it would be really interesting to learn that Fili was across from Kili and so actually saw everything. That would add an interesting dynamic to the conversation, especially considering they were also being watched by Legolas. Honestly, the interaction I thought Avandel was referring to was the "Do you think she could have loved me?" one. I've seen the movie seven times and every single time I'm surprised the camera doesn't go to Fili to see his reaction to that line. How he handles this whole Tauriel-Kili thing will say volumes about his character and will likely set up a lot of his future interaction with Thorin. I'm seeing a lot of family tension in store for us in TABA

I hear your still voice calling my heart… I’d rip my world down to follow the sound. –Nine Lashes


Kerewyn
Rohan


Feb 7 2014, 10:17pm

Post #22 of 24 (115 views)
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Fili is growing on me as well [In reply to] Can't Post

His braided moustache, his armoury of weapons, his kinship within the group ... I've found myself in repeat watchings of AUJ starting to follow him with my eye during action scenes, just to get more of him. We definitely need more solo Fili moments.

During the first viewing of the Bag End EE extra, I was thinking 'wow, Fili really got shafted here - there's no focus on him at all!' Until I learnt that Dean had turned up later in the shoot. But yeah, I'd been missing him and that pointed out to me his essentialness in the group dynamics.

'O' is very useful. You use it when you say... "Oscar's only ostrich oiled an orange owl today."


Werde Spinner
Rohan


Feb 9 2014, 4:58am

Post #23 of 24 (87 views)
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Yes, more Fili!!! [In reply to] Can't Post

Since everyone has already posted much more eloquently than I could about how Fili could be better featured in DOS EE and TABA, I'll just add that the lack of Fili in promotional materials really annoys me. I got the DOS wall calendar for 2014 and Fili was nowhere to be seen. Kili was featured prominently, of course, but not Fili. Soooo disappointed. Some of us do like the blond one, you know. Wink


If they made a metal Fili lunchbox, I would swap my Kili one for it. Tongue (Yes, there are lunchboxes.)

"I had forgotten that. It is hard to be sure of anything among so many marvels. The world is all grown strange. Elf and Dwarf in company walk in our daily fields; and folk speak with the Lady of the Wood and yet live; and the Sword comes back to war that was broken in the long ages ere the fathers of our fathers rode into the Mark! How shall a man judge what to do in such times?"

"As he ever has judged. Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men. It is a man's part to discern them, as much in the Golden Wood as in his own house."


Kim
Valinor


Feb 9 2014, 5:47am

Post #24 of 24 (85 views)
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Wait, there are lunchboxes? [In reply to] Can't Post

Where do I get my Thorin one? Tongue

 
 

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