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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
TORN exclusive: Del Toro ď99 percent certainĒ says NL insider.
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The Wicked Lute Tavern
The Shire


Jan 31 2008, 1:39am

Post #26 of 50 (582 views)
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Guillermo del Toro [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm very excited for the Hobbit. This my friends, is hopefully going to be an awesome movie.
For those who DON'T know (I was one who didn't....) Frown, here is the imdb url for Guillermo del Toro.
Spread the word!

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0868219/

Music and merry drinking at the Wicked Lute Tavern!


elentari3018
Lorien


Jan 31 2008, 3:36am

Post #27 of 50 (555 views)
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It really depends... [In reply to] Can't Post

I heard that "Pan's Labyrinth" was dark. I mean dark could be both bad and good. There *is* a happy ending in the Hobbit and i just hope that he won't go on a wild tangent directing the Hobbit and will read all the literary sources before he attempts to direct. I agree that THe Hobbit could sound dark and foreboding as Tolkien said but I just don't want it to deter the under 13 crowd to watching it. And i don't want any deviations that would not be in the spirit of Tolkien if the director hasn't read the book yet. And in order to do Hobbit 2, you MUST read LotR and not just the Hobbit.
From his interview from a month ago, i'm just disappointed that he didn't read all of Tolkien's works. I hope that would change.

The Hobbit has many light moments Rivendell, Troll scene, even when Bilbo was in the thick of things with Smaug.. I really do not see The Hobbit really dark but if that caters to the majority of the population, obviously that's the way to go.

But... eh.. i'm not as thrilled as everyone here..but i guess there's no big choices for director unless PJ comes to his senses and directs. Fine, i'll be cautiously content but i still feel torn-ish in the matter of the director choice.

"By Elbereth and Luthien the fair, you shall have neither the Ring nor me!" ~Frodo

"And then Gandalf arose and bid all men rise, and they rose, and he said: 'Here is a last hail ere the feast endeth. Last but not least. For I name now those who shall not be forgotten and without whose valour nought else that was done would have availed; and I name before you all Frodo of the Shire and Samwise his servant. And the bards and the minstrels should give them new names: Bronwe athan Harthad and Harthad Uluithiad , Endurance beyond Hope and Hope Unquenchable.." ~Gandalf, The End of the Third Age , from The History of Middle Earth series


elentari3018
Lorien


Jan 31 2008, 3:38am

Post #28 of 50 (537 views)
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i *really* hope so too. [In reply to] Can't Post

 

"By Elbereth and Luthien the fair, you shall have neither the Ring nor me!" ~Frodo

"And then Gandalf arose and bid all men rise, and they rose, and he said: 'Here is a last hail ere the feast endeth. Last but not least. For I name now those who shall not be forgotten and without whose valour nought else that was done would have availed; and I name before you all Frodo of the Shire and Samwise his servant. And the bards and the minstrels should give them new names: Bronwe athan Harthad and Harthad Uluithiad , Endurance beyond Hope and Hope Unquenchable.." ~Gandalf, The End of the Third Age , from The History of Middle Earth series


squire
Valinor


Jan 31 2008, 4:06am

Post #29 of 50 (858 views)
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A lot of knowledgeable directors were definitely interested on that basis, I hear [In reply to] Can't Post

I would hope they would grab someone who knows the appendices of LOTR to direct the second film.

Quentin Tarantino: I would love the chance to direct a Tolkien film based on the Appendices! I see A.II, you know, the Rohans, as a natural focus, both natural, proud, and ultra-violent. What a great scene when Helm kills Freca with one punch! Iíd want to explore more about Helm Ė who he is, how he became King, why he needs to use personal violence as a mode of monarchical rule. And the bit where he creeps across the snow in all-white camos, strangling the Dunlendings and Ė just maybe, we never really know Ė eating them! Well, I know Shippey says thatís from the legends of the Little Ice Age, but I think itís Tolkien riffing off the Soviet-Finnish War of 1939-40, and Iíd like to explore that in depth in this film.

Woody Allen: Itís not my usual method, I know, but would it surprise you if I confessed to loving Appendix C, the Family Trees? The family politics in there are staggering, wealthy, beyond the dreams of any filmmaker! Why do the Tooks have those funny WASP roman numerals after their names? Does Samís family really become middle class, or are they just passing? And arenít the Brandybucks, with their clannish ways and odd names kind of Ė well ,youíll think this is silly, but hear me out Ė arenít they kind of Jewish, in an odd Shirey way? Shirey, I made that up, but I like it, I like it. So anyway, I think about these little people all intermarrying. Think about the dinners, the holidays, the sex! Itís not just one movie, itís dozens! But Iíll take one, if youíve got one.

Joel Coen: I love Appendix E. Itís kind of a secret vice of mine Ė I think you know what I mean, or why are we having this conversation? Anyway, itís a great movie, but maybe different than you want: I see Bilbo teaching Frodo Elvish during long rainy winters while theyíre holed up in Bag End. A lot of pronunciation jokes at first, of course, following the book Ė like ďrain in spainĒ only in Sindarin. But then it gets really good when we get to the writing, because Sam is secretly listening in Ė foreshadowing that bit in Fellowship Ė and thereís a lot of emotional tension as Frodo tries to grasp the essential linguo-mathematics of the Tengwar, while Sam serves him in the evening and tries not to correct his mistakes in writing the tehtar, you know, the vowel diacriticals. If you really need it, I could add some musical numbers Ė singing Elves in dream sequences Ė to make the parallels between the Cirth and the Anglo-saxon Runes clearer to the audience. But I personally donít think thatís necessary.

Martin Scorsese: Me, I like the Kin-strife. Appendix A.I.iv, I think. Itís the ďfirst great evilĒ to hit Gondor, and itís amazing! Makes the Civil War look sick! Based on Roman models, of course, and donít I know how Italian families wage war on each other? Donít I? Yeah, itíd be an epic. Massive! Bloody! No togas, but oh my God. Iíd need four hours, and Iíd show Jackson how this sh** is done by pros. Oh yeah, heíd have to change Gandalfís speech outside Denethorís hall in Return of the King to include a couple of minutes on the Kin-strife, or this bridge idea donít work.

Tim Burton: I think the Dwarves really come into their own in Appendix A.III, ďDurinís FolkĒ. I love that they live in the dark, and fight in the dark, and make love in the dark, to women who look like men. How the hell can they tell the difference, answer me that! Yeah, thereís some sick sh** in there, mixed up with Pride, Battle-lust, and their own damn Ring. I guess we canít show AulŽ creating them, havenít got the rights or so Pete tells me. But I have ways of getting my ideas over on the audienceÖ Just let me at those Dwarves! You wonít be sorry!

David Lynch: Itís a funny thing, but the Calendars Appendix is underestimated by so many people. Friends of mine loved the films, but wonít read Appendix D! Funny. Anyway, I see a tense, warped historical drama set in late Numenor, where Astronomers of some kind of cultish sect are responsible for working out the Millennial Deficit. Itís 2999, and theyíre just not able to get it right Ė because of the Shadow, which is growing, right? Anyway, thereís an illicit love affair between an astronomer and a royal princess, and the result is, the dates arenít right going into the fourth millennium of Numenorean glory. With me? Good. So you can guess what happens, of course: Sauron finds out about it, and one of the things he does is make sure the Ship captains canít find their longitude because of the Deficit being off by just enough degrees that in a storm Ė well, in a storm, your sailing ships canít afford to be off course, but the last good king Tar-Palantir keeps losing ships, and thatís one of the reasons the bad king Ar-Pharazon takes over. Right? Ok, Part II. Three hundred years later. Ar-Pharazonís getting old; the astronomers are more and more distrusted; Sauron isÖ. Uh oh! Sorry, another call, gotta take it. Look if you like what you heard, call me tomorrow, and weíll talk terms. Iíd really really love to make this movie. Waited for it all my life, believe me!

Ang Lee: Iíve always had a weakness for nature documentaries. You think I just do violence and action, right? Well, sure. Iím good at it, I like it, the films do well. Iím not ashamed of it, or anything. But really, the best single film of the past ten years was The March of the Penguins. And I think, how could I match that? How could I top that? Answer: only with Tolkien. You know Appendix F? Sure, yes, thatís right. The races of Middle-earth and their tongues. See? Itís kind of like a nature film mixed with linguistic anthropology! His races are really just aspects of each of us, but the languages are things of beauty, like art objects. Canít you just see the kind of travelogue that makes? The camera wanders across Middle-earth, learning, seeing, watching, listening. And by the end we realize itís all one world, all one creation, of one single genius, Tolkien. I would be honored to make that film.



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Footeramas: The 3rd TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion; and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


Finding Frodo
Tol Eressea


Jan 31 2008, 5:10am

Post #30 of 50 (505 views)
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After reading that, I'd vote for Tim Burton!// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Where's Frodo?


elentari3018
Lorien


Jan 31 2008, 5:24am

Post #31 of 50 (594 views)
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wow great resource~! [In reply to] Can't Post

Where did you get these thoughts from-- quite interesting. I liked Coen for the hobbity interest in Frodo and Sam learning languages but Tarantino has some interesting thoughts as well. I liked Scorsese's thoughts as well.
Who is David Lynch?

"By Elbereth and Luthien the fair, you shall have neither the Ring nor me!" ~Frodo

"And then Gandalf arose and bid all men rise, and they rose, and he said: 'Here is a last hail ere the feast endeth. Last but not least. For I name now those who shall not be forgotten and without whose valour nought else that was done would have availed; and I name before you all Frodo of the Shire and Samwise his servant. And the bards and the minstrels should give them new names: Bronwe athan Harthad and Harthad Uluithiad , Endurance beyond Hope and Hope Unquenchable.." ~Gandalf, The End of the Third Age , from The History of Middle Earth series


Ainu Laire
Tol Eressea


Jan 31 2008, 5:30am

Post #32 of 50 (524 views)
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I'm 99% sure [In reply to] Can't Post

that he ws just joking ;)

Nevertheless, I'd like a director who, well, will read the book and the appendices, naturally xD

My LJ
My art site
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Sunflower
Valinor

Jan 31 2008, 6:37am

Post #33 of 50 (546 views)
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Are these real quotes.... [In reply to] Can't Post

or is this a parody? Sources please. Either way, these are GREAT quotes....lol


ShadoFaxs
Rivendell

Jan 31 2008, 9:06am

Post #34 of 50 (585 views)
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Bwahahahaha!!! [In reply to] Can't Post

Who's David Lynch? LOL!

Reading these "quotes" made my day. Very clever you are Wink Thank you!

As for the director announcement...

People, GET OVER IT.

Jackson isn't going to direct - and he wasn't going to direct. Remeber when NL announced they were making TH? PJ stated he couldn't take on TH. NL said they were looking for a director. Why did y'all think that situation would change within a matter of weeks? Schedules get jammed up and huge amounts of money and legal committments are involved - PJ just can't walk away from these projects... that's the reality of the movie business.

Nevertheless, the PJ/Walsh/Boyen trio will no doubt write the script with input from del Toro. In fact, I bet they've already got outlines and the beginnings of a draft for at least the first film. GDT and PJ will truly collaborate together. PJ will remain deeply involved in the film both conceptually and through Weta. Heck - he might even get a cameo! Moreover, GDT has served as producer and mentor for other filmmakers, so he knows how to collaborate. If PJ didn't think he could get along and work with GDT, there would be no deal.

So we have a great director on board, who is a geek, a fan of PJ's, a fan of the book, who is happy to work within the PJ/Weta Middle Earth universe established in LOTR. Plus, GDT is respectful of the fan base. He wants to make his own movie, but he wants it to be a film all of us want to see.

It doesn't bother me overmuch that del Toro hasn't read LOTR (he's seen the movies though, and I bet he's perused the extras). It's more important to me that he's a fine director first and foremost. Since English isn't his first language, I can well imagine he found LOTR very dense and he isn't alone in that assessment. I don't kjnow how LOTR reads in Spanish, but the translation is unlikely to be more graceful than in the original language. Since PJ, Fran and Philipa do know LOTR backwards and forwards, that's sufficient for me. I suspect GDT will take another stab at LOTR.


Starling
Half-elven


Jan 31 2008, 9:31am

Post #35 of 50 (473 views)
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Oh, very good, laughed myself sick! // [In reply to] Can't Post



grammaboodawg
Immortal


Jan 31 2008, 10:03am

Post #36 of 50 (507 views)
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Agreed [In reply to] Can't Post

And I'm sure he'll read it all with an enthusiasm and awe that he wouldn't have experienced before... which is so cool! Plus, he's had the opportunity to see the films, which would help him over whatever speedbumps tripped him up before. He's gonna shake his head and wonder why he waited so long. I think the length of the story is the real reason many people give up. Too much work. *sigh*

Yeah, being a part of this project could get you a little inspired to read a bit, right? ;)




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Trust him... The Hobbit is coming!

"Barney Snow was here." ~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..."


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grammaboodawg
Immortal


Jan 31 2008, 10:10am

Post #37 of 50 (563 views)
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*mods up* This is so great, squire! [In reply to] Can't Post

I've been reading their thoughts, but spread out over a long period of time, I lost the impact. This is wonderful!

You know, there's enough in the appendices to do a prequel to The Hobbit, if someone had the mind to. Wouldn't that be chocolaty delicious? *twitch*

The Lord of the Rings: In the Beginning...

The Lord of the Rings: The Dawn of an Age

The Lord of the Rings: Here's More - Just Because We Can!





sample sample
Trust him... The Hobbit is coming!

"Barney Snow was here." ~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..."


TORn's Observations Lists


MrCere
Sr. Staff


Jan 31 2008, 10:53am

Post #38 of 50 (476 views)
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Simply brilliant {NT} [In reply to] Can't Post

 

The cake is a lie
The cake is a lie
The cake is a lie
The cake is a lie
The cake is a lie


One Ringer
Tol Eressea


Jan 31 2008, 12:21pm

Post #39 of 50 (495 views)
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Do us good Del Toro . . . [In reply to] Can't Post

He looks like a good director, and if he stays true to the previous films, everything should be swell. Smile

"Death is just another pathway . . . one which we all must take."

-Gandalf from "The Return of the King"


pandemonium
The Shire


Jan 31 2008, 1:50pm

Post #40 of 50 (554 views)
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Brilliant, squire! :^D [In reply to] Can't Post

 
I was sorely disappointed that Quentin Tarantino was not selected as the director of The Hobbit. Really. It could work! Rumor has it that casting was already under way:

Bilbo - toss-up between Tim Roth and Woody Harrelson
Gandalf - David Carradine
Thorin Oakenshield - Robert de Niro
Balin - Samuel L. Jackson
Dwalin - Ving Rhames
Gloin - John Travolta
Oin - Chris Penn
Bombur - Kevin Smith or John Goodman
Fili - Antonio Banderas
Kili - Raymond Cruz
Casting for Dori, Ori, Bifur and Bofur is still in negotiation.
Gollum - Steve Buscemi
Elrond - Michael Keaton
Elven-king (Thranduil) - George Clooney
Voice of Smaug - Harvey Keitel
Bard the Bowman - Bruce Willis (I can just see it! Bruce as Bard aims that great bow at Smaug and lets fly: "Yippee-ki-yay, m-f!")

Tarantino, who usually makes a cameo in his own movies, will portray the Great Goblin.

Hey, a pandemoniacal demon can dream, right? Wink


dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jan 31 2008, 3:00pm

Post #41 of 50 (494 views)
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Antonio Banderas as Fili? [In reply to] Can't Post

I thought he was going to be one of Beorn's talking animals - after all, he's got plenty of experience playing a cat!

But John RevoltaTravolta as Gloin - hm, figures he'd get himself a continuing role...

Laugh


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I desired dragons with a profound desire"

"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915


Ainu Laire
Tol Eressea


Jan 31 2008, 3:25pm

Post #42 of 50 (501 views)
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One can only hope! [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't know Del Toro at all- haven't seen any of his movies, goodness knows why- so I'm still a bit hesitant about him. But I suppose everyone is right, I would be very surprised if he didn't read LOTR and the appendices now that he has the Hobbit. Goodness, I hope he reads them.

My LJ
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elentari3018
Lorien


Jan 31 2008, 4:24pm

Post #43 of 50 (499 views)
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:blush: haha... [In reply to] Can't Post

Sounded so...real and so cool if those directors actually read the appendices. :P lol :blushes profusely for being so naive::

but great work on it by squire though. :D lol!

"By Elbereth and Luthien the fair, you shall have neither the Ring nor me!" ~Frodo

"And then Gandalf arose and bid all men rise, and they rose, and he said: 'Here is a last hail ere the feast endeth. Last but not least. For I name now those who shall not be forgotten and without whose valour nought else that was done would have availed; and I name before you all Frodo of the Shire and Samwise his servant. And the bards and the minstrels should give them new names: Bronwe athan Harthad and Harthad Uluithiad , Endurance beyond Hope and Hope Unquenchable.." ~Gandalf, The End of the Third Age , from The History of Middle Earth series


deej
Tol Eressea


Jan 31 2008, 4:51pm

Post #44 of 50 (441 views)
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Nice! *mods up* // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Dragoncon 2008: August 29th - September 1st in Atlanta, Georgia

http://www.dragoncon.org





merklynn
Lorien


Jan 31 2008, 5:22pm

Post #45 of 50 (486 views)
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Thoughts on Del Toro [In reply to] Can't Post

Just thought I'd share my thoughts really quickly. I'm not exactly a fan of Del Toro, in fact, I'm not even an admirer of his movies. I didn't like Pan's Labyrinth although I loved the imagination and the fantasy moments that existed within the movie, but the total package I felt needed less emphasis on the civil war and more on the girl and the world she had found. Anyway, I have seen Hellboy and that film was just average for me, with some great moments, but overall, not really that strong a film. But, given that the Hobbit is the Hobbit.. ie a book that most of us love, I at least feel that Del Toro will have that plot guideline to follow and hopefully not chop it up into a mess... but there is alwas the risk of that happening, especially with this talk about a Hobbit sequel / bridge movie, which could result in some sloppy cutting and inserting of material that could prove detrimental to the Hobbit. So I'm not jumping with joy, because the only way to feel confident that the Hobbit AND the bridge movie will be handled with plenty of attention and care so that they flow and aren't a mess, is if Peter Jackson was 100% involved, and ideally the director. With Del Toro, being a Hobbit fan only, and having IMO done some films that were a little messy, I really hope that the strength of the book and Peter Jackson's invovlement with prevent this from turning into a mess.


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Jan 31 2008, 5:38pm

Post #46 of 50 (497 views)
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I guess the same [In reply to] Can't Post

could have been said of Peter before LotR came out. He'd done splatter films that I still haven't seen *shudder*, and he broadened his work with Forgotten Silver, The Frighteners and Heavenly Creatures. It wasn't until LotR that he showed his depth and sensitivity. I think most of that was because he believed so strongly in the work he was adapting. He was determined to get it right and show it the respect and honesty Tolkien's work deserved. I'm sure this will be instilled as paramount with Del Toro (and may not take much urging ;)

The fact that they'll be building these stories on a well-established environment, world and the original writers will make it a smoother transistion than if someone else was spearheading these films (not Jackson) and would virtually have to start from scratch. I think this will be Del Toro's opportunity to shine. At least, he'd better ;)




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"Barney Snow was here." ~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..."


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merklynn
Lorien


Jan 31 2008, 6:01pm

Post #47 of 50 (465 views)
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Consistency [In reply to] Can't Post

I guess for some people, Del Toro already shines. But I'm very particular... and I really want consistency with the LOTR trilogy and the new Hobbit film(s). I totally understand the similarity in that Jackson and Del Toro both have a dark vein in their work, but we know what Peter Jackson can and has done with the epic fantasy movie, and continuity would mean a lot to me. It's a real shame Peter can't do the directing, because it was once a film he wanted to do. I know that goes without saying for most people here, but I wanted to say it because Del Toro might be a good choice, but I'd take Jackson as director over anybody.


AinurOlorin
Half-elven

Feb 1 2008, 1:54am

Post #48 of 50 (482 views)
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tone, Continuity, and a little praise for Squire [In reply to] Can't Post

Squire, that was brilliant. For a moment I almost bought it as genuine. You REALLY have those director's personalities down to a science.

The tone of The Hobbit? I can't see it going Pg-13. I think LOTR only got stuck with that because of the dismemberment of Lurtz near the end. Even with The Balrog and The Nine it could have gotten away with PG had it avoided that particular graphic slaying. If blatant decapitations are the only thing that needs to be dropped, My guess is Hobbit will be a heavy PG, like Narnia without so many talking animals, and with some dark moments, like Legend. The Extended dvd will be pg-13, adn the bridge film also, but The Hobbit itself. I kinda doubt it, because if it is done well, it can be PG and still please most of the core fans, yet manage not to exclude the easy 30 to 75 million extra in U.S. profit alone that will come from parents who want to take their children.

As to continuity, I want it in the look in feel, but some things ( umm, Gandalf's magic in the Cavern of The Great Goblin for one) will hopefully adhere closer to Tolkien's depiction than to Jacksons.

"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Feb 1 2008, 3:11am

Post #49 of 50 (425 views)
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He totally got me! *lights raised bic* Well done! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 




sample sample
Trust him... The Hobbit is coming!

"Barney Snow was here." ~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..."


TORn's Observations Lists


stormcrow20
Gondor


Feb 1 2008, 7:04am

Post #50 of 50 (473 views)
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PG-13 isn't just a rating [In reply to] Can't Post

The main target for movies these days are young males approx. from early teens to late twenties or even thirties. From the film companies' perspectives, a PG rating will not attract many ticket sales from that group. However true or false that may be, it's what they believe. I remeber that X-Men, back in 2000, was going to be rated PG, but the filmmakers wanted a PG-13 rating instead, only so it would appeal to an older audience outside of the fan base. That's why they included Wolverine's middle-claw gesture and one or two "bad" words.

Superficially, or just at a glance, R-rated movies are generally considered "adult" or "mature", while G and PG are considered "childish". PG-13 is the middle ground.

Sure, there are great movies under all of these ratings, even many that could be enjoyed by different ages, but some people just don't look past the rating.

"Good Morning!"

(This post was edited by stormcrow20 on Feb 1 2008, 7:06am)

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