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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The Thranduil Appreciation Thread...
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Kerewyn
Rohan


Feb 4 2014, 11:32am

Post #326 of 402 (28266 views)
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     An answer for you,Thranduiliel [In reply to]  


In Reply To
It sounds like you're quite the star-magnet, Kerewyn!
Have to say I'm curious as to what you were doing in that hotel room! Wink


Well let's keep fingers crossed and hope I don't make a fool of myself!

A quick explanation of the hotel room.
It was possibly 2005 or 2006... I was attending a small LOTR con in Canberra. It was quite relaxed, with the guests mainly being Weta and production staff, and Kiwi supporting actors and stunt people. Sandro Kopp was sketching portaits for people. At the end of the night, the venue staff wanted to close up and he still had three of us hanging out with him waiting out turn, so he invited us up to his hotel room to finish off the portraits.

I joined someone on the balcony for a one-off cigarette, and it was quite cold out there, being mid-winter, so Sandro offered me his hotel bathrobe as an extra layer over my clothes. I just continued to wear it while having my portrait done too. (We respected his privacy and left once he was done.)

'O' is very useful. You use it when you say... "Oscar's only ostrich oiled an orange owl today."


Kerewyn
Rohan


Feb 4 2014, 12:01pm

Post #327 of 402 (28276 views)
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     Lee really brought him alive for me. [In reply to]  

RG, I could almost be this non-reader person.
Having read The Hobbit only in recent years (and not knowing any more of Thranduil's history), the Elvenking in the book was pretty much two-dimensional to me. Not a character I paid much regard to. I understood him to be stern and pretty much in charge, and not someone to cross. His imprisoning of the Dwarves impacted me more than the softening of his character later on.

Movie Thranduil is, as you say, so mesmerising, it completely kicked me awake. But on the surface, on that first viewing, he did come across to me as someone cold and uncaring, glittering like a diamond and just as hard.

I like to look into these things though. A difficult and seemingly bad character often has a painful and heart-breaking back story that makes them who they are.
(case in point being, if you'll excuse the fandom crossover, Loki in the Marvel universe, another beloved character I follow intently. Speaking of Marvel, who can't wait to see Lee as Ronan the Accuser??)

But back to Thranduil. I asked a non-reader friend what they thought of His Magnificence. The answer was "scary". And "Can you blame Legolas for being more hardcore in this one? Look who his dad is."

I am hoping to attend another screening soon with my non-reader BF, so I am keen to get his pure unadulterated thoughts directly after.

'O' is very useful. You use it when you say... "Oscar's only ostrich oiled an orange owl today."


Kerewyn
Rohan


Feb 4 2014, 12:08pm

Post #328 of 402 (28254 views)
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     Thank you Thralls... [In reply to]  

...for putting up with my rambling stream of multiple posts during my limited online time! Evil

I so love and look forward to absorbing the posts and photos here when my time swings around again. Heart

*off to bed with a lighter heart*

'O' is very useful. You use it when you say... "Oscar's only ostrich oiled an orange owl today."


elf-lady
Rivendell

Feb 4 2014, 1:56pm

Post #329 of 402 (28257 views)
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     Thranduil...first impressions [In reply to]  

This is difficult to imagine for me since I've been a Tolkien reader since the age of 16 (back in the First Age it seems!). My first impression of the Elvenking back then was he (and his people) were mysterious and somewhat tricky. But since my impression of the dwarves was that they were trespassing and only after gold I was thinking "well, what did you think was going to happen?!" haha

So it's even more difficult trying to be objective seeing movie Thranduil because 1) I knew more about elves in general and all about Legolas (thanks to LOTR) specifically, 2) Lee Pace did an absolutely brilliant job as the king and I was somewhat blinded by his beauty and I was thinking "why is the Elvenking paying homage to Thror (in AUJ)? He would not have left his halls without good cause (of course this was remediated in the EE) and 3) I'm just more an elf fancier. Blush

I agree that Thranduil would have made a "better" impression had PJ shown Bilbo sneaking around the halls and seeing the king in a different light. However, I do think the version we got shows Thranduil is so very different from other elves like Elrond or Galadriel. He's dangerous (a little like the Galadhrim).

In Reply To
I'm trying to imagine how he would come across if I knew nothing about the character except what I see on screen--especially without the benefit of the AUJ EE.



Thranduiliel
Bree

Feb 4 2014, 3:55pm

Post #330 of 402 (28236 views)
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     My husband has the same opinion as yours, Thyia [In reply to]  


In Reply To

On a completely other tangent which I'm finding interesting... my husband doesn't appreciate Thranduil in the film at all, going so far as to say he has no redeeming qualities whatsoever, and I cannot seem to convince him otherwise. He has not read the book, which truly is even stranger since he's read both LoTR and the Sil. He promises he will read it before TABA comes out though.


My husband has never read any Tolkien material and loves the LOTR films, while not feeling the same passion for the Hobbit films so far. He absolutely loved the Elves at Helms Deep (I know!) and how Haldir appeared to save the day, citing the Elves' alliance with men as their reason. Conversely, when he saw Thranduil, another blonde Elf, and Legolas' father no less, locking up our hero Dwarves, let's say he was less than impressed. He said he found him weak and dishonourable. We had quite a discussion about it, with me giving him some backstory, explaining that these particular elves and dwarves had no such alliance - quite the opposite, and how Thranduil is different to Elrond and Galadriel. I have suggested he may change his mind about Thranduil by the end of TABA and he's remaining open-minded about it right now. My younger teenaged daughter didn't like Thranduil either, as she's a huge RA/Thorin fan, so she wasn't impressed by him locking Thorin up either. I'm facing some stiff opposition at home, I can tell you! Laugh


Thranduiliel
Bree

Feb 4 2014, 4:00pm

Post #331 of 402 (28224 views)
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     I hadn't read the Hobbit before I saw DOS [In reply to]  


In Reply To
I've often wondered what those who didn't read the book thought of Thranduil. Most of us have read Tolkien and are familiar with Thranduil's background, as are most of my friends.

I'm trying to imagine how he would come across if I knew nothing about the character except what I see on screen--especially without the benefit of the AUJ EE.

I know I'd still find him mesmerizing, and I believe I'd still see the complexity of his character. (That's due to Pace's superb acting.) But had we seen him through Bilbo's eyes, I think that would have helped temper some of the "he's a jerk" comments from those unfamiliar with the character (canon). Sadly, the conversation he had with Tauriel about the spiders / Legolas thinking she fought well / Legolas being fond of her and how he won't sanction the match turned off most of my friends. Everyone, myself included, was like: "Your kingdom is under attack--don't you have more important things to discuss and worry about!?" Shocked


I found Thranduil to be mesmerising in the trailers - first his voice, then seeing him more animated than the brief sighting we had in AUJ - I couldn't wait to see his scenes in DOS. Before that, I always had a kind of casual interest in him just by virtue of the fact that he is Legolas' father. But Lee Pace's performance and appearance just blew me away. I didn't notice him much in AUJ (not that there was much to notice), but for me, it was the voice that sealed the deal!

One thing I loved during my repeated viewings was the audience reaction to Thranduil saying "I know you're there" to Tauriel, when we think he's addressing Bilbo. Many people collectively gasped when Thranduil suddenly appeared before Bilbo. And there were a lot of laughs when Thranduil freed the orc's head from his miserable shoulders!


(This post was edited by Thranduiliel on Feb 4 2014, 4:02pm)


Thranduiliel
Bree

Feb 4 2014, 4:04pm

Post #332 of 402 (28215 views)
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     Haha, awesome! [In reply to]  

Thanks for that, Kerewyn - sounds like a top bloke, and seems you had a fantastic experience there! Cool


swordwhale
Tol Eressea


Feb 4 2014, 4:09pm

Post #333 of 402 (28229 views)
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     oh....definitely .... Thrrrrrrranduillllllllllll [In reply to]  


In Reply To
Get your Thranduil fix here. Share your favorite scenes, dialogue, and pictures. Heart

Thranduil's Thralls: CurseOfFeanor, Eowyn of Penns Woods, elf-lady, Rowan Greene, Eruvandi, MouthofSauron, Roheryn*, Thranderz, (anyone else)?

*Also loves Thorin as in channeling Bella Swan / Katniss Everdeen and up for a love triangle. Wink


I once, back in the 70's (1977 actually), borrowed a tent from a second cousin twice removed, so I could spend a week on a desert island called Assateague. He told me about this game they played: D&D. I showed up, rolled up a character, waved the paper at the DM and said, "What do I make of this?"

"Play an Elf."

"What?" You mean like Hermie, in Rudolph the Red-nosed Reindeer?

"Read Lord of the Rings."

A Star Wars pen pal had gifted me with a stack of intimidating verbiage not long before this. "You must read Lord of the Rings" quothe she. Now I had an excuse to delve into its epic depths... I had to figure out who these Elves were, because ... because I recognized something in a Judy King-Reniets illo of the Fellowship, specifically the blond guy with the bow. .. because the DM in the aforementioned game recognized me already channelling the Elven archetype... because the darn blond bow guy could talk to horses (Rohan, Arod, no saddle, 'nuff said).

When I finally got around to reading the Hobbit, Thranduil (aka Legolas' daddy) was my favorite character.

Darn pesky Dwarves.

"Nuff said.

I live in Penn's Woods (Pennsylvania) which can be fairly mirky, and we did, in fact, have a senator named Greenelaf.

Really. Stewart J. Yes, he even has a website....

http://www.senatorgreenleaf.com/

"Judge me by my size, would you?" Max the Hobbit Husky.





Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Feb 4 2014, 4:10pm

Post #334 of 402 (28235 views)
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     Age and gender trigger my shyness even more than fame [In reply to]  

The vast majority of the stars we've discussed are at least 10 years older than me (LP is 12yrs older) and as we all know the majority of the TH actors are male and I'm way less comfortable around men in general then women. No particular reason, it's just the way my brain works. I honestly think I could talk to Evangeline Lily or Cate Blanchet and be pretty comfortable about it. It would just feel like girl talk to me. But with the guys? Nope. Total brain shutdown. Especially if they're anywhere between the ages of 20-39 and even then it's complicated. Luke Evans is 34 and I think I could talk to him (maybe because we have Welsh ancestry in common so I'd have a way to relate to him?), but RA is 42 and I think I'd get nervous. Then PJ is 52 and I'd probably be dumbstruck, but 42yr old Martin Freeman and any of the dwarf cast (except Dean O'Gorman and Aidan Turner) I'd be just fine. Then there's Orlando Bloom and Benedict Cumberbatch who are 36 and 37 respectively. Nope. I so could not handle it.

Well, at least it makes life more interesting...

"And we find what we're made of
Through the open door
Is it fear you're afraid of?
What are you waiting for?
Love alone is worth the fight."
-Switchfoot


swordwhale
Tol Eressea


Feb 4 2014, 4:15pm

Post #335 of 402 (28217 views)
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     pie makers and actors [In reply to]  

I've never seen Pushing Daisies, but the tumblr posts are endless, so I feel like I've seen it. And yes, it says something for Lee Pace's ability to be that derpy cute let me squoosh'im guy AND The Elvenking.

My fear is that the Elves will be too "Vulcan"... in the books they showed a capacity for deep emotion and empathy. I do think Lee Pace is doing a wonderful job with the subtle emotions playing out on his face.. and in his body language.

He's just lovely.

"Judge me by my size, would you?" Max the Hobbit Husky.





swordwhale
Tol Eressea


Feb 4 2014, 4:21pm

Post #336 of 402 (28228 views)
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     whoa........... [In reply to]  

nice....... stuff...........

"Judge me by my size, would you?" Max the Hobbit Husky.





swordwhale
Tol Eressea


Feb 4 2014, 4:29pm

Post #337 of 402 (28217 views)
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     I think you just nailed something I've been trying to say all along... [In reply to]  


In Reply To
Where did this rumor arise? Is this what was implied by the remarks by McKellan? All in all, I find this rumor ridiculous. I don't care one way or the other re:anyone's sexual preference but what I really wonder is if any two (famous) men can ever just be friends and go out to dinner together. If it had been two women, would anyone even notice? Our society (maybe just in America?) puts so much pressure on boys to not show any emotions that it warps their view of human relations. This was especially evident after LOTR with all the Frodo/Sam jokes about their "real" relationship. The fact that two men could truly love each other in a nonsexual way seems an alien concept. Now, of course, I do not mean all men feel this way, I just got annoyed at constantly trying to explain what true, deep friendship can look like, even between two men. I found most women accepted the Frodo/Sam friendship without question.


It continually irks me that we can't allow guys (or anyone else) to have deep feelings for each other without sex being involved.

I suppose one should say ship and let ship (as far as fandom goes), but... really now! Can't we just be friends.

And the grunty Neanderthal stereotype that is so popular in my homeland (Penn's Woods) is perhaps why I remain cheerfully single.

Where ARE those bloody Elves...

"Judge me by my size, would you?" Max the Hobbit Husky.





swordwhale
Tol Eressea


Feb 4 2014, 4:38pm

Post #338 of 402 (28199 views)
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     I agree, mostly [In reply to]  

My ships all have masts, canvas sails, and cannons.

I prefer my fanfic and art to have canon.

I think I understand where the impetus comes from, for all the shipping fic and art; girls who overlay their own "feels" onto the male characters they've fallen in love with... (note it is not legit gay guys writing this stuff).

= "romance" etc.

Somebody with a PhD has probably psychoanalyzed this somewhere...

If you are legit LGBT, I will stand by you, sword raised against the idiots. I'll avoid the slashy stuff in my fanfic though....

"Judge me by my size, would you?" Max the Hobbit Husky.





swordwhale
Tol Eressea


Feb 4 2014, 4:50pm

Post #339 of 402 (28201 views)
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     I had to go look it up..... [In reply to]  

..... on wiki. El James, 50 Shades of....whatever...

GAWD!@$#$!??!!

Excuse me while I rant........

First the Twicrap gets all kinds of attention and makes a gazillion bucks for someone who can't write worth diddley#*%&^%!! Then someone fanfics it, changes the names and gets famous?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

I write and commit art. It has ties to Middle-earth (as well as everything else I absorbed from Flipper, Roy Rogers, Sea Hunt and the Lone Ranger to faerie tales, mythology, Star Trek and Star Wars). I'm working multiple horrible minimum wage jobs to survive.

Still writing.

Have no hope for the tastes of the Muggles.

Well, there's you guys on TORN....

"Judge me by my size, would you?" Max the Hobbit Husky.





swordwhale
Tol Eressea


Feb 4 2014, 4:53pm

Post #340 of 402 (28207 views)
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     indeed......... [In reply to]  

I think it may have been Theodore Sturgeon who said 99% of everything is crappola....

We must muddle along knowing that fandom will spawn some.

And perhaps they will grow, learn, and become intelligent creative people.

Meanwhile... scroll, scroll, scroll real fast...

"Judge me by my size, would you?" Max the Hobbit Husky.





swordwhale
Tol Eressea


Feb 4 2014, 4:55pm

Post #341 of 402 (28205 views)
Shortcut
     sweet! [In reply to]  

 

"Judge me by my size, would you?" Max the Hobbit Husky.





swordwhale
Tol Eressea


Feb 4 2014, 4:58pm

Post #342 of 402 (28230 views)
Shortcut
     wine [In reply to]  

in ROTK, I think it was local human made wine....

in Hobbit the line goes something like "must have been strong stuff to make a wood-elf drowsy" (from memory, maybe not perfect).....

"Judge me by my size, would you?" Max the Hobbit Husky.





swordwhale
Tol Eressea


Feb 4 2014, 5:06pm

Post #343 of 402 (28197 views)
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     sweet! sweeter! [In reply to]  

Indeed, carry a notebook.

The six degrees thing is weirdly accurate.. even for those of us on the other side of the planet.

I met a nice English lady who, when I asked what part of England she was from, she said New Zealand.

And I once was taught how to drive a pirate ship (took the wheel on a guest crew passage on the Pride of Baltimore II) by someone who had walked the same planks as Orlando Bloom (she'd crewed on the Lady Washington, the ship they stea... uh.... commandeer, it's a nautical term.. in the first Pirates film).

And the sled dog picnic on New Year's Day coughed up a discussion of Kiwis: birds, fruit, and inhabitants of the mystical land of Middle Earth... one of whom was there... and had visited Hobbiton....

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUUGHH!!!

I am so going to NZ if I ever get the $$$$....

"Judge me by my size, would you?" Max the Hobbit Husky.





Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Feb 4 2014, 5:06pm

Post #344 of 402 (28200 views)
Shortcut
     hmmm [In reply to]  

I think if I hadn't read the book or seen the AUJ EE I would probably be wondering what Thranduil's problem is. I mean, if you don't know his background or anything about his thought process, I think he would just seem like a bit of a cold, pompous, jerk for acting the way that he does towards, well, pretty much everyone. I think there would be a lot of questions left in your mind. "Why didn't he help the dwarves way back when? Why does he seem to have a personal issue with Thorin? Why did his face just melt off? Why did he lock up the dwarves? Was it just because he's greedy and they won't give him the gems? Why is the outside world none of his concern? Why does he have such a problem with Legolas and Tauriel being together? Why did he get that weird look on his face when the orc said 'my master serves The One'? Why did he lie to the orc and kill him when he said he'd let them go? Is he really that much of a jerk?" Did I forget anything? Oh yeah, "And why does he own a cape if he's not going to twirl it?"

Then again, I think the apparent complexity of the character would hopefully lead the casual viewer to look for answers and realize that he must have some reason for being the way that he is and perhaps under that jaded yet ridiculously attractive exterior there is indeed a heart, thereby setting up his character arc in TABA.

"And we find what we're made of
Through the open door
Is it fear you're afraid of?
What are you waiting for?
Love alone is worth the fight."
-Switchfoot


swordwhale
Tol Eressea


Feb 4 2014, 5:09pm

Post #345 of 402 (28179 views)
Shortcut
     well said! [In reply to]  

 

"Judge me by my size, would you?" Max the Hobbit Husky.





Thranduiliel
Bree

Feb 4 2014, 5:10pm

Post #346 of 402 (28188 views)
Shortcut
     Spot on, Eruvandi! [In reply to]  


In Reply To
I think if I hadn't read the book or seen the AUJ EE I would probably be wondering what Thranduil's problem is. I mean, if you don't know his background or anything about his thought process, I think he would just seem like a bit of a cold, pompous, jerk for acting the way that he does towards, well, pretty much everyone. I think there would be a lot of questions left in your mind. "Why didn't he help the dwarves way back when? Why does he seem to have a personal issue with Thorin? Why did his face just melt off? Why did he lock up the dwarves? Was it just because he's greedy and they won't give him the gems? Why is the outside world none of his concern? Why does he have such a problem with Legolas and Tauriel being together? Why did he get that weird look on his face when the orc said 'my master serves The One'? Why did he lie to the orc and kill him when he said he'd let them go? Is he really that much of a jerk?" Did I forget anything? Oh yeah, "And why does he own a cape if he's not going to twirl it?"

Then again, I think the apparent complexity of the character would hopefully lead the casual viewer to look for answers and realize that he must have some reason for being the way that he is and perhaps under that jaded yet ridiculously attractive exterior there is indeed a heart, thereby setting up his character arc in TABA.


BIB - this is the most burning question of all! What a waste of a fabulous cape, just to leave it lying on his throne! It darn well needs a good twirl and fling, and I will be extremely disappointed if we do not see that in the EE! Wink


swordwhale
Tol Eressea


Feb 4 2014, 5:30pm

Post #347 of 402 (28187 views)
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     OMG [In reply to]  

I looked up Corey Olsen and found him in....

my backyard!!!!!!!!!!

"...currently teaches in the English Department at Washington College, a delightful little liberal-arts college in Chestertown, on Maryland’s Eastern Shore. There he lectures in Chaucer, Arthurian literature, courtly love, the Bible, Greco-Roman mythology, and a full-semester course on the works of Tolkien."

Chestertown is a colonial town on the Chester River, which flows out into the Chesapeake bay past Eastern Neck Island (where I often kayak, and have spent some time on local tall ships). C-town itself has a lovely historic district, beautiful old buildings, wonderful architecture, great eateries, shops, galleries. A wonderful waterfront, dogs everywhere (it's very dog-friendly), woogity woogity brick sidewalks, and the coolest tall ship festival anywhere on the east coast (Downrigging Weekend on Halloween weekend, where you can not only dress like a pirate but sail on a "pirate ship", or trick or treat and get treats from the "pirates").

Not exactly the Grey Havens, but close.

http://www.tolkienprofessor.com/wp/about/professor-olsen/

my pics of Chestertown here:
http://www.swordwhale.com/downrigging-2010.html


As for Thranduil (I digressed there).......

All the characters in the Hobbit are enigmatic, simplified, the sort you find in oral tradition faerie tales. They are frameworks for us to hang our own interpretations and experiences on...

...until you read the more complex rest of Tolkien's world.

With that background, you should be able to see deeper into any of the characters, especially Thranduil. he gives us some clues to his character in The Hobbit... and more clues in the character of his son in LOTR.

I personally think Legolas is often just seen by film fans as "the hot Elf" when there is so much more to his character, if you pay attention to what he says and does in LOTR. I hope we don't only get "the hot Elf" thing with Thranduil, as there is so much more potential in that complex character.

He remains one of my favorites of Middle earth. Perhaps largely because he is a "wood-elf", living in the dark forest, close to the natural world, depending on it, defending it, and standing at the edge of darkness trying to hang onto the light.

Yeah, I fanficked here: (also some essays)...
https://www.fanfiction.net/u/290949/Teanna

"Judge me by my size, would you?" Max the Hobbit Husky.





swordwhale
Tol Eressea


Feb 4 2014, 5:38pm

Post #348 of 402 (28203 views)
Shortcut
     shy [In reply to]  

I can relate to that. I was an only child, and a highly Sensitive Person (read the book Highly Sensitive Person By Elaine Aron PhD) and likely had an ADD brainstyle as well, so I did not relate well to other kids (animals, yes, kids... gawd they were evil little bleepity bleeps).

My fandoms: books, TV shows etc, were very secret, as were my stories (told only to myself). I was horribly embarrassed to have to stand up and read anything I wrote in class... even embarrassed to hear some other kid read a story about Star Trek or some other thing I loved. It was as if it was a deep secret that i loved those things and would be ridiculed if They Knew...

This may be one of the obsatcles we face trying to become professionals, to get our adult work out there.

that and an inability to type well....

"Judge me by my size, would you?" Max the Hobbit Husky.





Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Feb 4 2014, 5:41pm

Post #349 of 402 (28180 views)
Shortcut
     I know, right? [In reply to]  

I just don't get it. At all.

"And we find what we're made of
Through the open door
Is it fear you're afraid of?
What are you waiting for?
Love alone is worth the fight."
-Switchfoot


swordwhale
Tol Eressea


Feb 4 2014, 5:49pm

Post #350 of 402 (28200 views)
Shortcut
     Loki [In reply to]  

...is a fair parallel. A difficult and complex character who, in the myths, is not a villain at first (he's THE archetypal Trickster).

Where Loki channels some of that Elvish beauty (pleeeeeeease cast Tom Hiddleston as an Elf, pleeeeeeez), Thranduil channels perhaps a bit of the Trickster in his Wood Elf King. Or at least, the Ice King/frost giant........

Wait, let's just take that and run with it for a moment...

Thor is the blunt, brawny, forthright, Golden Hero. What you see is what you get. Lightning bolts and thunder.

Loki is complex, subtle, sensitive, the Highly Sensitive Person (Elaine Aron, book) ...Priest/advisor class to Thor's Warrior King.

Thorin: blunt, in your face. Lightning bolts and thunder.

Thranduil: subtle, sensitive, complex, but hiding much of it under the necessary armour.

Archetypes keep popping up everywhere, that's why they're archetypes.

"Judge me by my size, would you?" Max the Hobbit Husky.




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