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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The Thranduil Appreciation Thread...
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Rowan Greene
Lorien


Jan 31 2014, 9:14pm

Post #251 of 402 (6222 views)
Shortcut
     I've seen... [In reply to]  

...some comments in other threads where people were really offended by usage of the term ("fan fiction") and negative comments related to it so I've learned to tread softly.

And yes...HER opinion (as I'm 100% female).


In Reply To

In Reply To

Again, my apologies if I offended anyone with my opinion on the matter.


Why offended? I think everybody has his (or better say her in here? :D ) own idea of all that stuff and I as long as people can respect other opinions, it should be fine :)

I'm feeling sort of indifferent for all the shipping (concerning fictional characters, real person stuff is definitely a absolut no-go for me), I don't mind if some of those slash-pics appear on my dash (some are quite funny and beautiful I have to admit), but I would not post them here e.g. (as I assume there are loads of underage users on this board). And that's the thing, I'm sort of, well - worried about. If I just see the pics and fanfictions (rated NC-17) reblogged and read by 13-year old girls

Oh well.. and if you're using these social media stuff you just can't avoid them. I'm falling over those things more or less on a daily basis, just if i open my account and I would not sleep a minutes (i think) if a would have a daughter being fan of the hobbit hanging around on tumblr. Really...

Fanfiction: well, I admit: I like to read those, well, some of them, a small part of them at least :) but that's maybe 1 out of 40, i can't stand all the mary sue stuff, i can't stand ff written by 13year-old-girlies drooling about a char/actor and all those things. I want magic in the stories, closing "plot-holes", showing the lifes of the characters after the curtain of the movie fell..




Brethil
Half-elven


Jan 31 2014, 10:13pm

Post #252 of 402 (6220 views)
Shortcut
     Nice selection CoF! [In reply to]  

There is information scattered here and there about Thranduil and Oropher and some of it does appear in the History of Galadriel and Celeborn chapter...which, coincidentally, we are discussing in the RR this coming week (<---- insert *shameless* plug for Reading Room here) Cool

Have an idea relating to the world of JRR Tolkien that you would like to write about? If so, the Third TORn Amateur Symposium will be running in the Reading Room in April, 2014. We hope to see you there!





elf-lady
Rivendell

Feb 1 2014, 1:51am

Post #253 of 402 (6195 views)
Shortcut
     Reading Room [In reply to]  

Thanks for the shameless plug Brethil! Wink I'll be visiting for sure!


Brethil
Half-elven


Feb 1 2014, 1:57am

Post #254 of 402 (6191 views)
Shortcut
     Excellent Elf-lady! // [In reply to]  

 

Have an idea relating to the world of JRR Tolkien that you would like to write about? If so, the Third TORn Amateur Symposium will be running in the Reading Room in April, 2014. We hope to see you there!





Avandel
Half-elven

Feb 1 2014, 3:58am

Post #255 of 402 (6200 views)
Shortcut
     speaking of voices - I want a trailer line back! [In reply to]  

LOL, a Thorin thrall behind enemy lines.....but it just popped into my head, while I had issues w. DOS Trailer 1, LOVED HeartHeartHeart the opening "Where does your journey end?" it was haunting, mysterious, coming with LP's voice and his face.

So evidently the T & T scene got reworked, as now re DOS I can't see how that line would work - but I miss it. Before the movie I pictured some ominous scene with Thorin dragged before Thranduil and Thranduil's gazing off into the distance, almost as though he were talking to himself, and then turns to deal mockingly with Thorin.

Which is kind of what happened anyway, but I wish we could see what scenes were filmed and then re-done. I was looking forward to that line and whatever followed.


Fionniel
The Shire

Feb 1 2014, 8:18am

Post #256 of 402 (6226 views)
Shortcut
     Thranduil's wife. [In reply to]  

I agree with your post, Nesse, about Thranduil being a loving and passionate husband. That brings me to the subject of the Elven Queen. Could they not have shown a cameo of his Elf Queen, Legolas's mother; and also Thranduil's mother,his father Oropher's wife, for that matter. They could have had one or two short scenes of Thranduil interacting with them. For example, maybe the whole family could be at dinner having a heated discussion about the growing threat to The Woodland Realm; and another short scene showing Thranduil's wife's misgivings about Thranduil not engaging with the outside world, which lead to him rethinking his position. They could have shown a softer side to him. Showing love and tenderness to his wife and kindness to his mother and son. Maybe Bilbo could witness these scenes as he is sneaking, invisible, around the Elven King's halls . It then would set things up well for TABA and make it more believable when he shows pity and kindness to Bilbo and the Lake men because we have seen his kinder side, previously, with his family. It would explain, too, why Bilbo likes and helps Thranduil in TABA. It would also show Thranduil as a multi-dimensional character. As it stands now, we have only seen him as this one-dimensional, haughty,cold,aloof elf and I think it is going to be difficult explaining the sudden show of kindness and caring from him in TABA. It would also introduce two more credible females into the male dominated characters. Prof. Tolkien never mentions either wife anywhere in his writings so there should be no copyright problem with the Tolkien estate. If they can have Legolas who was not mentioned in The Hobbit but we know would have been in the Woodland Realm, then why not also the two wives, who, whilst also not mentioned in the book, could have also just as easily have been there.


Kerewyn
Rohan


Feb 1 2014, 8:34am

Post #257 of 402 (6163 views)
Shortcut
     This [In reply to]  

"This wine is inferior. Take it away."



'O' is very useful. You use it when you say... "Oscar's only ostrich oiled an orange owl today."


Kerewyn
Rohan


Feb 1 2014, 8:44am

Post #258 of 402 (6142 views)
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     I like the idea of that scene Fionniel [In reply to]  

I am playing it out in my head.
PJ does seem to like setting up tension with his movie characters though, doesn't he. So, sadly, Thranduil is proposed as more of an adversary to forward the movie tension, and non-readers could be none the wiser.

Remember how movie Faramir was introduced? Mind you, I did quite enjoy the tension set up there (I must confess I was one of those ...um...movie-firsters) but many couldn't stand it. Of course, we did get to see more of the real Faramir later on.

'O' is very useful. You use it when you say... "Oscar's only ostrich oiled an orange owl today."


Kerewyn
Rohan


Feb 1 2014, 8:55am

Post #259 of 402 (6169 views)
Shortcut
     And this. [In reply to]  

"Ladies.... ladies!"



'O' is very useful. You use it when you say... "Oscar's only ostrich oiled an orange owl today."


Fionniel
The Shire

Feb 1 2014, 10:09am

Post #260 of 402 (6148 views)
Shortcut
     Movie tension. [In reply to]  

Kerewyn, that is a good point you make about forwarding the movie tension.True, Faramir's character did transition sympathetically from the second to third film. I had forgotten about that. I just wonder,though, how they will achieve that for Thranduil. I can not see it being as straight forward as it was with Faramir and remember what they did with Faramir's father,Denethor. They gave him no real redeeming features. I am just very protective of our Elven King!Heart I want his character to be respected as he should be. I can only trust in PJ and co. I suppose.Unsure


CurseOfFeanor
Rivendell


Feb 1 2014, 11:55am

Post #261 of 402 (6141 views)
Shortcut
     thx [In reply to]  

for the little hint :) i think i'll stop by once in a while




Obsessed with the Silmarillion, book purist & Thranduil junkie in one person ;)

Serving Middle-Earth since 1995


Rowan Greene
Lorien


Feb 1 2014, 1:40pm

Post #262 of 402 (6189 views)
Shortcut
     Thranduil's wife and family.... [In reply to]  

I actually feel they increase his complexity by not showing his wife or mother. Their sheer absence and the losses he endured are significant to his character evolution, IMO. He's alone for the most part and being alone has shaped his attitude towards the world. I think his complexity comes through in his words, actions, and mannerisms. That's all down to great acting by Lee Pace. (I do wish we had seen more of the father / son dynamic.)

Thranduil suffered a great loss during the Battle of the Last Alliance and that loss is what drives him. He then quite possibly lost his wife, either through death or an injury that resulted in her leaving for the undying lands. So he cherishes his son Legolas--quite possibly his only child--above all. And in doing so, he holds him at arm's length and protects him from the outside world, all to prevent yet more loss. He has insulated himself from the outside world and is alone with these memories that haunt him.

So I don't think they need to show him interacting with his wife or mother to give him a 'softer' side and in fact, I think such interaction would have been at odds with the Thranduil we saw on screen. It would have detracted from his character evolution because we need him to go from cold and haughty to kind and generous in TABA. It's the suffering of the Lake-town residents at Smaug's hand that initially awakens the feelings he has buried so deep. But I'd love for Bilbo to be the catalyst for the significant change of heart he later undergoes--his transformation if you will.

It's Bilbo, our titular hero, who reminds Thranduil what's important in life. And it's Thranduil's actions towards the Lake-towners and prior to the battle that inspire Bilbo to fight with the elves. Plus I like to think that Bilbo, like us, saw the King's true nature buried beneath the despair and fear during his stay in Thranduil's halls. (That's partially why I was so upset they failed to show more of him scampering around looking for an escape route, pilfering food, and observing the elves--namely the feast which is one example of Thranduil trying to do right by his people despite the darkness slowly enveloping their lands.) It's Bilbo's simple nature and honesty that brings this out in Thranduil. We need Thranduil to be perceived as a cold, arrogant, selfish King for this to come across; we need that sharp contrast. Think about it: this strange little creature brings the Arkenstone, this most coveted gem, and presents it to Bard and Thranduil to save Thorin from himself. It's such a selfless act. Bilbo cares nothing for treasure but instead is acting out of friendship and honor. That is epic! Thranduil, the great Elvenking, is taken aback at the integrity and heart in this seemingly insignificant creature. (His dialogue from the book is fitting.)

So in conclusion, I'll have no problem believing Thranduil's kindness towards the Lake-towners and Bilbo as genuine in TABA. Imagine you haven't left your home for many years and when you do, you're confronted with the horrors of a dragon attack and the suffering of many innocents. Imagine the inner turmoil that would cause and how it would impact you--the memories it would invoke. But then you witness such selflessness and kindness from an unlikely creature. That's essentially what happens to Thranduil. Heart



(This post was edited by Rowan Greene on Feb 1 2014, 1:45pm)


elf-lady
Rivendell

Feb 1 2014, 2:53pm

Post #263 of 402 (6119 views)
Shortcut
     Beautifully put RG [In reply to]  

In my head canon, Thranduil's wife is in Valinor. I don't like to think that she may have suffered at the hands of orcs (like poor Celebrķan) but rather was wounded in a battle with spiders. It seems to me that the wife of such an elf as Thranduil would not shy from protecting her people and I can easily envision her being as a badass warrior queen.Cool

Quote
It's Bilbo, our titular hero, who reminds Thranduil what's important in life. And it's Thranduil's actions towards the Lake-towners and prior to the battle that inspire Bilbo to fight with the elves. Plus I like to think that Bilbo, like us, saw the King's true nature buried beneath the despair and fear during his stay in Thranduil's halls. (That's partially why I was so upset they failed to show more of him scampering around looking for an escape route, pilfering food, and observing the elves--namely the feast which is one example of Thranduil trying to do right by his people despite the darkness slowly enveloping their lands.) It's Bilbo's simple nature and honesty that brings this out in Thranduil. We need Thranduil to be perceived as a cold, arrogant, selfish King for this to come across; we need that sharp contrast. Think about it: this strange little creature brings the Arkenstone, this most coveted gem, and presents it to Bard and Thranduil to save Thorin from himself. It's such a selfless act. Bilbo cares nothing for treasure but instead is acting out of friendship and honor. That is epic! Thranduil, the great Elvenking, is taken aback at the integrity and heart in this seemingly insignificant creature. (His dialogue from the book is fitting.)

Yes, exactly. I adore Freeman's Bilbo and I can't wait to see Bilbo interact with Thranduil.


Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Feb 1 2014, 5:52pm

Post #264 of 402 (6117 views)
Shortcut
     I miss it too. [In reply to]  

I think that line was likely from the deleted scene where the entire dwarven company is brought before Thranduil, before they are put in their cells and T & T speak to each other alone. I'm hoping it comes back in the EE!

"And we find what we're made of
Through the open door
Is it fear you're afraid of?
What are you waiting for?
Love alone is worth the fight."
-Switchfoot


Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Feb 1 2014, 6:05pm

Post #265 of 402 (6107 views)
Shortcut
     That is exactly what I've said in some other threads [In reply to]  

Bilbo absolutely has to be the one who helps Thranduil change for the better. I desperately hope they stay true to this in TABA.

"And we find what we're made of
Through the open door
Is it fear you're afraid of?
What are you waiting for?
Love alone is worth the fight."
-Switchfoot


CurseOfFeanor
Rivendell


Feb 1 2014, 6:18pm

Post #266 of 402 (6101 views)
Shortcut
     some images i made yesterday :) [In reply to]  

..I had some spare time yesterday and decided to use it for photoshopping, actually the Unfinished Tales discussion here was inspiring for at least one of them

with the UT quote


and the one with the DoS quote



and just another one





Obsessed with the Silmarillion, book purist & Thranduil junkie in one person ;)

Serving Middle-Earth since 1995


Fionniel
The Shire

Feb 2 2014, 2:07am

Post #267 of 402 (6084 views)
Shortcut
     Thranduil's family. [In reply to]  

Rowan Greene, you make some good,thoughtful points. Your version of Thranduil's past history is so sad and tragic, befitting the persona of the movie Thranduil. That's the thing, he and his back story are so mysterious we can all have our own take on it. I agree that Bilbo should be the catylist. Still I would like to see more of Bilbo in the Elven halls observing. Maybe at the starlight feast that they alluded to in DOS, hopefully in the EE. I can not wait to see what they do with Thranduil's character in TABA. I fervently hope it will not disappoint.
On an aside, Thankyou, so much, for starting this awesome thread! I love how this is on the fifth page of TH forum and still going strong. Lots of posting still happening here. Yay!Laugh


Rowan Greene
Lorien


Feb 2 2014, 2:24am

Post #268 of 402 (6056 views)
Shortcut
     Nice ones! [In reply to]  

Some more Thranduil... Heart





Rowan Greene
Lorien


Feb 2 2014, 2:58am

Post #269 of 402 (6062 views)
Shortcut
     I have many hopes for the DoS EE... [In reply to]  

...and additional scenes of Bilbo wandering through Thranduil's halls is one of them. Bilbo should have been front and center while the dwarves were imprisoned and yet he took a back seat to talks about starlight and Legolas being fond of Tauriel. We lost track of Bilbo for extended periods of time during this portion of the movie and that was unfortunate.

I really hope we get to see Bilbo wandering around Thranduil's halls, amazed by the woodland elves and King Thranduil as he observes the Feast of Starlight and pilfers food and wine. I want to actually see him looking for a way out and devising his master plan. That's where Martin Freeman really shines--body language and subtle gestures. One look or hand movement conveys so much emotion. (The AUJ EE scenes of him exploring Rivendell are a great example. I hope they give us the equivalent in the DoS EE.)

And I'd love it if they showed him eavesdropping on the Thorin and Thranduil encounter. I've always wondered what Bilbo would make of that conversation! Wink


In Reply To
Rowan Greene, you make some good,thoughtful points. Your version of Thranduil's past history is so sad and tragic, befitting the persona of the movie Thranduil. That's the thing, he and his back story are so mysterious we can all have our own take on it. I agree that Bilbo should be the catylist. Still I would like to see more of Bilbo in the Elven halls observing. Maybe at the starlight feast that they alluded to in DOS, hopefully in the EE. I can not wait to see what they do with Thranduil's character in TABA. I fervently hope it will not disappoint.
On an aside, Thankyou, so much, for starting this awesome thread! I love how this is on the fifth page of TH forum and still going strong. Lots of posting still happening here. Yay!Laugh




(This post was edited by Rowan Greene on Feb 2 2014, 3:02am)


Thranduiliel
Bree

Feb 2 2014, 9:32am

Post #270 of 402 (6032 views)
Shortcut
     Wonderful pic and caption! [In reply to]  

I don't think he could look snootier if he tried!Cool

I loved the line in the movie where one of the elven guard says "Say what you like about our ill-tempered King, but he certainly has excellent taste in wine!" Or words to that effect. I felt a little sad though that the overriding opinion of Thranduil from his own subjects is that he is ill-tempered.


(This post was edited by Thranduiliel on Feb 2 2014, 9:35am)


Nesse
Lorien

Feb 2 2014, 3:49pm

Post #271 of 402 (6023 views)
Shortcut
     I wonder how he reacted when he found out that the dwarves had escaped [In reply to]  

bet he wasn't best pleased


Thranduiliel
Bree

Feb 2 2014, 4:30pm

Post #272 of 402 (6006 views)
Shortcut
     Absolutely beautiful [In reply to]  

...thanks for those! I am not technologically advanced enough to anything like this, so I really appreciate it when it's done by others. Cool


Thranduiliel
Bree

Feb 2 2014, 4:38pm

Post #273 of 402 (6006 views)
Shortcut
     Great post, RG [In reply to]  


In Reply To
. It's the suffering of the Lake-town residents at Smaug's hand that initially awakens the feelings he has buried so deep. But I'd love for Bilbo to be the catalyst for the significant change of heart he later undergoes--his transformation if you will.

It's Bilbo, our titular hero, who reminds Thranduil what's important in life. And it's Thranduil's actions towards the Lake-towners and prior to the battle that inspire Bilbo to fight with the elves. Plus I like to think that Bilbo, like us, saw the King's true nature buried beneath the despair and fear during his stay in Thranduil's halls. (That's partially why I was so upset they failed to show more of him scampering around looking for an escape route, pilfering food, and observing the elves--namely the feast which is one example of Thranduil trying to do right by his people despite the darkness slowly enveloping their lands.) It's Bilbo's simple nature and honesty that brings this out in Thranduil. We need Thranduil to be perceived as a cold, arrogant, selfish King for this to come across; we need that sharp contrast. Think about it: this strange little creature brings the Arkenstone, this most coveted gem, and presents it to Bard and Thranduil to save Thorin from himself. It's such a selfless act. Bilbo cares nothing for treasure but instead is acting out of friendship and honor. That is epic! Thranduil, the great Elvenking, is taken aback at the integrity and heart in this seemingly insignificant creature. (His dialogue from the book is fitting.)

So in conclusion, I'll have no problem believing Thranduil's kindness towards the Lake-towners and Bilbo as genuine in TABA. Imagine you haven't left your home for many years and when you do, you're confronted with the horrors of a dragon attack and the suffering of many innocents. Imagine the inner turmoil that would cause and how it would impact you--the memories it would invoke. But then you witness such selflessness and kindness from an unlikely creature. That's essentially what happens to Thranduil. Heart


While I'm happy to have Legolas report to Thranduil what Smaug has done in TABA, I hope Legolas doesn't dominate the proceedings and then they just have Thranduil turn up at the last hour a la Haldir, say a couple of lines, offer up his army and thrash his sword round a bit. He deserves better than that.

I do have a real fear that much of Thranduil's role in TABA will be given to Legolas, having seen the picture of Legolas with Bard. PJ loves Legolas (as I did in LOTR), but it's Thranduil's story in the Hobbit - I really hope we aren't denied it in the final film.


(This post was edited by Thranduiliel on Feb 2 2014, 4:39pm)


Thranduiliel
Bree

Feb 2 2014, 4:43pm

Post #274 of 402 (6115 views)
Shortcut
     Thank you Roheryn [In reply to]  

for a very warm welcome. Still finding my feet here, but very glad I de-lurked! :)

Totally agree with your comments about RA - he's a joy to watch as an actor, and I love the thought and effort he puts into every performance. Lee Pace strikes me as being very similar in that way.


Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Feb 2 2014, 5:29pm

Post #275 of 402 (5999 views)
Shortcut
     Nice! [In reply to]  

I missed posting in this thread (due to real-live busy-ness rather than lack of appreciation for Trhanduil. Wink

Those are beautiful! I love the superimposed text from Unfinished Tales. The second one sounds similar to lines spoken by Galadriel, Tauriel and Elrond in the movies. Nice touch! Smile


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase




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