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A few thoughts on Tauriel, after several viewings
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Loresilme
Valinor


Jan 13 2014, 3:42am

Post #1 of 47 (1283 views)
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A few thoughts on Tauriel, after several viewings Can't Post

Here be a long post Smile.......

I've loved both AUJ and DOS from the first time I saw them. Now with DOS, after I am familiar with the storyline and I'm able to focus on the characters and observe them - what they're doing and saying in the scenes - I am beginning to think there is as much, and maybe more, character development going on in DOS, then there was even in the LOTR trilogy. There are a lot of very quiet things, nuances, and subtleties that each of the actors /actresses are bringing to their roles that can be missed in the initial viewing of the film, when the focus is first on the storyline and the action. I am so impressed with all the actors / actresses and I think this is part of PJ's brilliance, in that he brings in actors / actresses who are top of their game, and then he lets them free to bring their characters to life. I wanted to share a few of my observations on Evangeline Lily/Tauriel in my most recent viewing:

In watching Tauriel's facial expressions in conversation with both Thranduil and Legolas, I am of the opinion now that she is a very strong-willed Elf who is already chafing at the policies of Thranduil and that she is no longer content to acquiesce simply out of gratitude to him. In their scene together, when he states that other realms are not his concern, she stares in frank disbelief and is preparing to walk out, until he begins talking about Legolas. It also seems more evident to me now that she is very happy when Thranduil says of Legolas, "Still, he cares for you", and then seems quite angry when he shoots down any possibility between them. I did not catch these fleeting changes of expression in her face from disbelief to hopefulness to anger (or insult, perhaps) the first few times I saw the film. Very subtle, very effective. Also after he commands her to leave, I see the same anger in her face when she hears his dismissive comment about 'one dead dwarf'.

I also think there is significance to the 'reckless' discussion with Kili - she asks him, "Are you?" and again in this most recent viewing it seemed to me that that particular quality was interesting to her, that perhaps her being in a responsible, military role her whole young life, now makes the polar opposite idea of recklessness particularly intriguing. This also makes it understandable to me why she would be intrigued by this affable, slightly reckless dwarf who is young like her, and who wanders into her world, both showing an interest in her and sharing her openness and curiosity about the outside world.

So I came away from this viewing with much more of a sense of the complexity of Tauriel's character and appreciation for the subtleties of EL's performance. That Tauriel does in fact have feelings for Legolas, and is understandably angry with Thranduil's position on the matter, and that this on top of her moral objections to his policies might be the 'last straw' for her. That her leaving to track the Orcs / dwarves is not a romantic pursuit of Kili - particularly in light of the fact that she knows full well - as Legolas states - that Legolas is going to come after her and continue the pursuit with her. Her intent is made clear by her standing on the rocks directly in sight of Laketown, suggesting that she believes the Orcs are headed there, and it emphasizes that her concern truly is for the other people of Middle-earth, and the residents there, and not only the dwarves.

Lastly, after the healing, when Kili is quietly rambling (and IMO, he is so touching in those moments), I interpret her expression as 'shock', followed by confusion, as if she never entertained the possibility that a dwarf could even have such feelings for an Elf.

Sorry for the long rambling post Blush and thank you to anyone who read it to the end Sly... but as I started out by saying at the beginning, even though I loved the films from the first viewing, I am finding myself pleasantly surprised at how very much more is going on from a character standpoint in DOS than I was aware of originally. I am looking forward to observing all the characters in turn and uncovering similar gems in their performances Smile.


Taladamir
The Shire

Jan 13 2014, 4:09am

Post #2 of 47 (590 views)
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she's great [In reply to] Can't Post

I wasn't a fan of her addition before I saw the movie, and I am still somewhat doubtful about the motives behind her creation and where they plan on going with this character, but EL and the team won me over. Rather amusingly I went into the theatre with 3 things in mind. 1-I hope I like HFR, 2-No falling hundreds of feet please, and 3-Well let's see if you can get me to like this redheaded-female-ninja-elf-thing PJ! Love her, great performance from EL, Super awesome theme from HS(not enough of it thoughFrown). Don't like the chanting though, didn't like it when arwen did it, didn't like it when Radaghast did it, Tauriel's was the worst of the three imo, but it didn't bother me overall. Great post Loresilme I think you nailed itSmile


Old Toby
Gondor


Jan 13 2014, 4:32am

Post #3 of 47 (544 views)
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Good thoughts, Loresilme! [In reply to] Can't Post

Today was my 10th viewing. I've really warmed to Tauriel and have always appreciated how EL portrayed her. Although I still feel her character is unnecessary to the story, I am okay with her as she is here. Thinking on your thoughts: I would agree with them! It seems that she is flattered by what Thranduil says about Legolas' feelings towards her, and I detect a hopeful tone in her voice when she responds to Thranduil about her being a lowly Sylvan elf, like perhaps she was hoping for a different answer than the one she got. And yes, I caught her angry expression as she is leaving after she almost killed the orc, when Thranduil is so dismissive about 'one dead dwarf'.

I really didn't get the impression she was romantically interested in Kili. I think she is a bit fascinated with him. She lives in such a rigid social structure, under the hand of a King who is strict, insular, and demanding, it's no wonder she is intrigued with a young, not-bad-looking dwarf who has more experience with the outside world than she and who pays her some attention. The look she gave Kili after she healed him and his saying, "Do you think she could love me" seemed more like she was caught off-guard and didn't know quite what to say to that. It's possible she harbored romantic feelings for him to some extent, but to me, so far, nothing has been obvious on her part.

And I think you're right in saying on multiple viewings, you start to see the nuances in the actors' performances, whether it's the way they say something or the expression on their face or their body language. PJ has had a knack, I think, of chosing really fine actors in all his films. Whether or not they stay in the limelight in the years after all the movies are done, at least in these they have their moments to shine, and shine they do!

"Age is always advancing and I'm fairly sure it's up to no good." Harry Dresden (Jim Butcher)


Meneldor
Grey Havens


Jan 13 2014, 4:38am

Post #4 of 47 (559 views)
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Agreed on all points. [In reply to] Can't Post

Something else that struck me last viewing was the way she came to attention for a moment when reporting to Thranduil. It was just the right degree of formality and respect for an officer summoned before a commander that is trusted and well known to her.

Not a big fan of spider-surfing, though.


They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters; These see the works of the Lord, and His wonders in the deep.


wonderinglinguist
Lorien

Jan 13 2014, 4:38am

Post #5 of 47 (585 views)
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A few things [In reply to] Can't Post

While I don't share your opinion on much of this, I do thank you for sharing your thoughts! Smile
These are a few things that stood out to me:


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I am of the opinion now that she is a very strong-willed Elf who is already chafing at the policies of Thranduil and that she is no longer content to acquiesce simply out of gratitude to him.... when he states that other realms are not his concern, she stares in frank disbelief and is preparing to walk out


This doesn't quite make sense to me. If she is already "chafing" and discontented, I don't think she would be so in disbelief at Thranduil's words. Perhaps they are harsher than she's heard before, but unless this is a new thing for him, she shouldn't really be shocked.


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I also think there is significance to the 'reckless' discussion with Kili - she asks him, "Are you?"....perhaps her being in a responsible, military role her whole young life, now makes the polar opposite idea of recklessness particularly intriguing.


That's a great observation! Now that you mention it, I think it's very possible the idea of being reckless is somewhat given to her by Kili. Thank you for bringing that up!


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That Tauriel does in fact have feelings for Legolas, and is understandably angry with Thranduil's position on the matter


I don't know if I'm in the minority or not, but I really don't see her having feelings for Legolas. I took that reaction as her just being hurt that Thranduil thinks so little of her kind of elf, nothing in particular to do with Legolas. I wonder, though, if one line/look is enough for you to think she likes Legolas, what do you think of all the screen time she has with/for Kili?


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I interpret her expression as 'shock', followed by confusion,


This is a very subjective point so all I can say is that I personally disagree. Instead of "shock" and "confusion" I would say "surprise" and "conflicted." I do believe she's a bit taken aback, but I wouldn't say shocked. For me, it's all in the fact that she didn't pull her hand away when he reached up and then let's her hand linger there and lightly weaves her fingers in his....

That all aside, I do think EL is a great actress and did a wonderful job with what she was given. I just wish her story line went a little differently Wink

keep smiling Smile


wonderinglinguist
Lorien

Jan 13 2014, 4:44am

Post #6 of 47 (564 views)
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I think I missed something [In reply to] Can't Post

What is this "spider-surfing" you speak of? Smile

keep smiling Smile


Avandel
Valinor

Jan 13 2014, 5:15am

Post #7 of 47 (520 views)
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Very nice post [In reply to] Can't Post

And I agree with Taladamir and Old Toby. For me, had a real horror of the character going in - and if she had never been there at all or was removed *shrug* but must agree with one critic, she was definitely a pleasant surprise.

As another multiple viewer (gawd, I'm going miss seeing DOS on the big screen!!) most recently it struck me how good the fight scene is in Bard's house. Don't know what tricks were used to film that, but it's a difficult scene in tight quarters, and I like Tauriel's entrance. She doesn't just start hacking away, she assesses the scene, starts picking off targets, responds fast using her feet to take out an opponent.

Another thought that crossed my mind is the tie-in between her comments to Kili about how all elves love the light of the stars...."it is memory" (her dead parents?) and later when Tauriel talks about darkness descending - what a horror that would be for her, who loves the light - or to retreat forever, perhaps, to the underground fortress of Mirkwood. No wonder she wants to fight back.

(I'm starting to pick up little things from all the actors, like Dori being held back at the lake when Bard had made some comment. Or the Master crossing his arms and nodding when Alfrid starts talking on the steps. Can't wait for the DVD/BR so I can study all the scenes and performances).


Meneldor
Grey Havens


Jan 13 2014, 5:17am

Post #8 of 47 (535 views)
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Don't make me get my board. [In reply to] Can't Post

Mad

In Reply To
What is this "spider-surfing" you speak of? Smile



They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters; These see the works of the Lord, and His wonders in the deep.


DwellerInDale
Rohan


Jan 13 2014, 5:58am

Post #9 of 47 (518 views)
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Very insightful analysis Loresilme [In reply to] Can't Post

As you say, it's nearly impossible to pick up on all the subtle nuances of acting on just one viewing. Here I wanted to add my opinion on why Evangeline received a Best Actress nomination for her portrayal of Tauriel, while other actors who did a fine job (Martin Freeman, Richard Armitage) did not.

I believe that the major reason Tauriel and EL's performance stood out with the critics (who may have had the opportunity to watch the screeners) was the range of expression she had to cover in all three of her non-action scenes (reporting to Thranduil, the Feast of Starlight scene, and the "It IS our fight" scene). In the first scene she had to go from professional and concerned / ambitious, to wide-eyed shock at Thranduil's attitude, to acquiescing and subservient to her king when he dismisses her concerns, then to blushing pride when she learned what Legolas had said about her, and then finally to the expression of suddenly dashed hopes. In the "Feast of Starlight" scene she had to go from professional as Captain of the Guards ("The stone in your hand-- what is it?) to shocked / touched that this little Dwarf actually has a mother who's waiting for him back home, to wistful when she asks Kili "Are you?" (i.e. reckless, because although she also young and reckless in a way, she can no longer afford to be so in her position), to ethereal and lyrical when she talks about the starlight. And in the final scene she goes from embarrassed / stubborn (when Legolas tells her that she has betrayed the king's trust), to courageous, talking back to her prince when she says that she will not forgive herself if she turns back, and then to totally assertive when she turns toward Legolas and gets in his face with the "it IS our fight", which I thought was even better than the version we saw in the teaser trailer.

Just my thoughts...

Don't mess with my favorite female elf.











willowing
Lorien

Jan 13 2014, 9:26am

Post #10 of 47 (458 views)
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I am pleased for "Tauriel" [In reply to] Can't Post

The Hobbit-The Desolation of Smaug also received four other nominations as well. So congratulations to all.


Roheryn
Grey Havens

Jan 13 2014, 11:38am

Post #11 of 47 (437 views)
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Great thoughts and observations, Loresilme. [In reply to] Can't Post

I love how there's so much more to pick up with this movie with every subsequent viewing.

Insightful observations. I too think EL's done a fantastic job with Tauriel, and I am quite attached to her already. I agree that she's quite complex, and that there's clearly a lot going on between her and Legolas. Thinking back to some of the more "minor" characters (or, for that matter, even the main characters, save Aragorn) in, say, TTT, I don't think there was a single one who seemed complex enough that I wanted to dissect every look, posture, line, or eyebrow-raise for clues to their inner motivations and feelings. Eomer? Eowyn? Grima? Théoden? Saruman? Who am I forgetting? Nope, not a one. Excellent performances there, don't get me wrong, but not with a captivating complexity like we're getting here -- from Tauriel, Thranduil, Bilbo, the always-majestic Thorin (especially Thorin), and, heck, even Smaug. Yep, I love this movie.

I'm surprised there hasn't been more discussion of Legolas' line to Tauriel that she knew he'd come for her, and the warm smile she gives him when he says that. To me, this is such clear evidence that they have some kind of close bond -- especially when coupled with the conversation she'd just had with Thranduil. I just don't see how anyone could take her pursuit of the Orcs all the way to Laketown as a romantic pursuit of Kili. She may be interested in trying to help the Dwarves, and Kili in particular, but I see no reason to think that interest has any romantic inclinations to it.


Loresilme
Valinor


Jan 13 2014, 2:40pm

Post #12 of 47 (392 views)
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A few thoughts on things :-) [In reply to] Can't Post

I very much agree with you that any interpretation of facial expressions and body language is subjective, and so saying these are only my perspective on what I think the meaning is Smile:


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Quote
I am of the opinion now that she is a very strong-willed Elf who is already chafing at the policies of Thranduil and that she is no longer content to acquiesce simply out of gratitude to him.... when he states that other realms are not his concern, she stares in frank disbelief and is preparing to walk out

This doesn't quite make sense to me. If she is already "chafing" and discontented, I don't think she would be so in disbelief at Thranduil's words. Perhaps they are harsher than she's heard before, but unless this is a new thing for him, she shouldn't really be shocked.



Here I did not mention my interpretation of her pacing back & forth while talking to Thranduil, or what she says (I was thinking perhaps my post was too long already, lol) but here is where I - again very subjectively - got the impression that this was not the first time the issue of taking a more aggressive stance had come up. She doesn't say 'we cleared out that nest but the spiders came back', she specifically says, 'they keep coming back" - to me, implying this has happened more than just this one time, which is also reinforced by her statement to Legolas out in the forest "they’re growing bolder". All giving the sense of an ongoing, continuing issue that she has been dealing with, and given her statements to Thranduil, that she wants to pursue more aggressively. I interpreted her pacing as an embodiment of her drive to move, take action, be proactive which is contrasted starkly against Thranduil's stillness of movement, representing - again, to me - his wish for no change, and only reactive action. I don't think it's ever been stated just how long she's been captain of the guard (unless I misssed it?). But it's possible it hasn't been all that long that she ever has been bold enough to really press the issue before, never pursued the topic with Thranduil beyond him just always leaving the subject at telling her her job is just to protect their realm. She doesn't react in disbelief here until he outright says why - because he doesn't care (in other words) if the rest of the world goes to h** in a handbasket, so to speak. To me, if we don't know how long or short a time she's been captain of the guard, it could be possible that Thranduil has never been this blunt with her before.


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I don't know if I'm in the minority or not, but I really don't see her having feelings for Legolas. I took that reaction as her just being hurt that Thranduil thinks so little of her kind of elf, nothing in particular to do with Legolas. I wonder, though, if one line/look is enough for you to think she likes Legolas, what do you think of all the screen time she has with/for Kili?


Until my most recent viewing, I didn't know whether I thought she does care for Legolas, I couldn't decide how to interpret how it seemed to me. But after this viewing - based on the expression of happiness that flits across her face at "Still, he cares for you" - I am of the opinion that she does. It might turn out to be totally incorrect once we see TABA, but I feel that it's just what that look says to me, personally.

Regarding her time with Kili, I think what really stands out for me now in their interactions is how young they seem compared to all the other characters in the story. That they're still young in the way that young people are when they're on the verge of going out into the world, when the world is still so interesting and new, and everything and everyone out there is so intriguing, it's like - as I read it phrased in a book once - being in love with the world itself. That's how I see them. Which is why I really don't know how I'm going to watch TABA, knowing at least some of what's going to happen Crazy Unsure.



Loresilme
Valinor


Jan 13 2014, 2:47pm

Post #13 of 47 (383 views)
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Beautiful theme [In reply to] Can't Post


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Super awesome theme from HS(not enough of it thoughFrown).


Isn't that theme lovely? The score in DOS seems more subtle than its use in LOTR, but just as beautiful!


Loresilme
Valinor


Jan 13 2014, 3:01pm

Post #14 of 47 (373 views)
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Given all the action [In reply to] Can't Post

in particular, in DOS, it took me a few viewings to notice these subtleties. I am just in awe of the film team's ability to choose these actors and actresses - how they are able to look at the person in 'real life' and visualize them in these roles. And then each one of them becomes their character so completely it becomes nearly impossible to imagine anyone else in the role!


In Reply To
And I think you're right in saying on multiple viewings, you start to see the nuances in the actors' performances, whether it's the way they say something or the expression on their face or their body language. PJ has had a knack, I think, of choosing really fine actors in all his films. Whether or not they stay in the limelight in the years after all the movies are done, at least in these they have their moments to shine, and shine they do!



Loresilme
Valinor


Jan 13 2014, 3:07pm

Post #15 of 47 (377 views)
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Other characters as well [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
(I'm starting to pick up little things from all the actors, like Dori being held back at the lake when Bard had made some comment. Or the Master crossing his arms and nodding when Alfrid starts talking on the steps. Can't wait for the DVD/BR so I can study all the scenes and performances).


Agreed! There is so much there. Maybe we should have some in-depth character analysis posts on more of the characters. The cast has brought such individuality to each of the characters, it would be great to discuss each one in-depth.


katalin
The Shire

Jan 13 2014, 3:22pm

Post #16 of 47 (385 views)
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I like long posts.... [In reply to] Can't Post

especially when I agree with the post! Wink

When speaking of Tauriel, one of the things that I liked about her was that her youthfulness came across on the screen, at least in my opinion. She doesn't seem as sure and serious as the other elves we have met, and then her apparent glee at the thought of being able to use Kingsfoil to help Kili, well, she just seems so much like a happy little girl in that scene that I couldn't help but smile when I watched it!

I believe that these little nuances that you see after multiple viewings are why my daughters and I enjoy seeing the movies multiple times. Or to see Thorin and his majestic magnificence, but no, really, it is the little things we don't notice at first. My family still puts in the EE of the LOTR movies first thing on New Year's Eve (our crazy tradition), and after all these years, we still find something we haven't seen before. I love movies like that!Smile


Loresilme
Valinor


Jan 13 2014, 3:22pm

Post #17 of 47 (366 views)
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So well said [In reply to] Can't Post


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In the first scene she had to go from professional and concerned / ambitious, to wide-eyed shock at Thranduil's attitude, to acquiescing and subservient to her king when he dismisses her concerns, then to blushing pride when she learned what Legolas had said about her, and then finally to the expression of suddenly dashed hopes. In the "Feast of Starlight" scene she had to go from professional as Captain of the Guards ("The stone in your hand-- what is it?) to shocked / touched that this little Dwarf actually has a mother who's waiting for him back home, to wistful when she asks Kili "Are you?" (i.e. reckless, because although she also young and reckless in a way, she can no longer afford to be so in her position), to ethereal and lyrical when she talks about the starlight. And in the final scene she goes from embarrassed / stubborn (when Legolas tells her that she has betrayed the king's trust), to courageous, talking back to her prince when she says that she will not forgive herself if she turns back, and then to totally assertive when she turns toward Legolas and gets in his face with the "it IS our fight"


This is so very much what I was trying to say Smile. I'm glad those who determine the nominations saw what we did too Smile.


Loresilme
Valinor


Jan 13 2014, 3:53pm

Post #18 of 47 (362 views)
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In comparison to LOTR [In reply to] Can't Post

 
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Excellent performances there, don't get me wrong, but not with a captivating complexity like we're getting here -- from Tauriel, Thranduil, Bilbo, the always-majestic Thorin (especially Thorin), and, heck, even Smaug. Yep, I love this movie

I agree that there seems to be much more emphasis on the characters in AUJ and DOS as compared to LOTR. Perhaps it began with all the interviews and vlogs which let us in on all the backstory that the actors/actresses developed for their characters to fill in the blanks, that maybe attuned us to looking more deeply into their characterizations. It just seems that in LOTR, as you stated:


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I don't think there was a single one who seemed complex enough that I wanted to dissect every look, posture, line, or eyebrow-raise for clues to their inner motivations and feelings.


Really agree. I think in LOTR we find a lot of symbolic uses of lighting and composition, and layers of meaning in the scenes, but less in the way of the actors/actresses themselves and how they express their characters.

And regarding Tauriel and Legolas:


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I'm surprised there hasn't been more discussion of Legolas' line to Tauriel that she knew he'd come for her, and the warm smile she gives him when he says that. To me, this is such clear evidence that they have some kind of close bond.


Yes! Both the fact that she was certain he'd join her, and the fact that he seems suddenly like the endearing Legolas of LOTR, when he says "You knew I'd come" as if he didn't realize until that moment, that she knew he would EvilHeart. I think they both have feelings for each other. But who knows what will happen in TABA. *sigh* I do hope someone in these films has a happy ending Unsure.





Loresilme
Valinor


Jan 13 2014, 4:07pm

Post #19 of 47 (370 views)
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She and Kili both seem so young [In reply to] Can't Post

That is also one of the things that struck me more as I watched several times, that in their conversation in the dungeons, they seemed so young compared to all the other characters in the story:


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That they're still young in the way that young people are when they're on the verge of going out into the world, when the world is still so interesting and new, and everything and everyone out there is so intriguing, it's like - as I read it phrased in a book once - being in love with the world itself. That's how I see them.

That's so wonderful that you watch the films together with your daughters! These are such meaningful and uplifting stories to appreciate and share with family. I like your idea of a New Years Eve LOTR marathon tradition Sly!




Loresilme
Valinor


Jan 13 2014, 4:22pm

Post #20 of 47 (352 views)
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Reporting back to her superior [In reply to] Can't Post


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Something else that struck me last viewing was the way she came to attention for a moment when reporting to Thranduil.


Hmm... wondering if that bit about her 'lingering in the shadows' before walking in, was because she was apprehensive about having to report there were spiders in the forest again after Thranduil had ordered them cleared out not too long ago. Maybe she was hesitant or nervous about what she was going to say in her report to him.


Dame Ioreth
Grey Havens


Jan 13 2014, 4:23pm

Post #21 of 47 (374 views)
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I wonder... [In reply to] Can't Post

Tauriel does seem to be surprised at Thranuil's reaction to the return of the spiders. She is frustrated too. Could that be because instead of dealing with the problem, she is seeing him retreat further? It sounds like previously there was a nest of spiders close to them and were given orders to deal with the threat. Now that she is reporting the threat to be much greater, she sees her commanding officer (and king) pull back and hide. It must be odd to a warrior elf like her to see an officer, one who fought in legendary battles, hide from his enemies. She doesn't understand why, Thranduil is not a sharer (even with his own son) so all she sees is this isolationism without context.

She is also "of the world" not of Mirkwood so his dismissal of her both in terms of helping other peoples and in regards to Legolas is a double blow in the same conversation. His indifference to her as an individual and also as a captain of his guard stings. He brushes her counsel aside. No wonder she went off and talked to the only folks in the kingdom who would understand how an outsider felt. I agree, Kili coupled with the Feast of Starlight they were celebrating, were the prod she needed to strike out on her own.

What I loved about EL's performance is the way she moved - so graceful yet powerful. I had no problem seeing her as a commander of others. I also liked the way her eyes flashed in anger. Nothing else moved in her expression but you could see the burn in her eyes. The description of the Mirkwood elves by Beorn, "less wise, more dangerous" came to mind when I saw that flash. Leadership comes from the top down and while Elrond is measured and wise in all he does, Thranduil seems to be more emotional and vengeful and the troops under both commanders reflect that.

As for Kili, I think he's a lovely young thing who gets all wrapped up in stories and tales and wove a tale of romance around an elf who saved him from being killed by the spider. She made a big impression on a dwarf not used to warrior she-elves. Tauriel got a does of understanding while listening to his rambling while she was tending to his wound. Thranduil was cruel in his informing her she and his son were not meant to be. Now the shoe is on the other foot and she is the object of desire from a party that she would never consider. How will she handle Kili and his feelings?

In fact, that is a theme I see in Tolkien - the walk a mile in my shoes, we must try to understand each other theme. I think that is why I had no problems with Tauriel from the get go. Her feelings of finding her place in the big scheme, being part of a greater world is the driving force that brings elf and man together and unites man against a larger evil in LOTR. Individuals are important, the small can do big things, but it is in service to the greater good that they do them.

Where there's life there's hope, and need of vittles.
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings







legolin12
The Shire

Jan 13 2014, 4:39pm

Post #22 of 47 (334 views)
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Agreed! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
While I don't share your opinion on much of this, I do thank you for sharing your thoughts! Smile
These are a few things that stood out to me:


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I am of the opinion now that she is a very strong-willed Elf who is already chafing at the policies of Thranduil and that she is no longer content to acquiesce simply out of gratitude to him.... when he states that other realms are not his concern, she stares in frank disbelief and is preparing to walk out


This doesn't quite make sense to me. If she is already "chafing" and discontented, I don't think she would be so in disbelief at Thranduil's words. Perhaps they are harsher than she's heard before, but unless this is a new thing for him, she shouldn't really be shocked.


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I also think there is significance to the 'reckless' discussion with Kili - she asks him, "Are you?"....perhaps her being in a responsible, military role her whole young life, now makes the polar opposite idea of recklessness particularly intriguing.


That's a great observation! Now that you mention it, I think it's very possible the idea of being reckless is somewhat given to her by Kili. Thank you for bringing that up!


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That Tauriel does in fact have feelings for Legolas, and is understandably angry with Thranduil's position on the matter


I don't know if I'm in the minority or not, but I really don't see her having feelings for Legolas. I took that reaction as her just being hurt that Thranduil thinks so little of her kind of elf, nothing in particular to do with Legolas. I wonder, though, if one line/look is enough for you to think she likes Legolas, what do you think of all the screen time she has with/for Kili?


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I interpret her expression as 'shock', followed by confusion,


This is a very subjective point so all I can say is that I personally disagree. Instead of "shock" and "confusion" I would say "surprise" and "conflicted." I do believe she's a bit taken aback, but I wouldn't say shocked. For me, it's all in the fact that she didn't pull her hand away when he reached up and then let's her hand linger there and lightly weaves her fingers in his....

That all aside, I do think EL is a great actress and did a wonderful job with what she was given. I just wish her story line went a little differently Wink

I agree, particularly with ypu opinion on Tauriel and Legolas. I dont see a romantic attraction on Tauriel's part at all, she leaves Legolas to fend for himself while she heals Kili. For me, it was all in that scene. Tauriel is torn between knowing thar if she leaves, Kili will die, but if she stays, Legolas will have to fight alone. She does start to leave, knowing that without Athelas she really can't help much, but when she sees Bofur with the Athelas, she knows that she has to stay.
I think the 'lowly silvan elf' thing only surprised her. In my opinion, she never thought that Thranduil believed that she was that low, it's like if the man you look upon as a father tells you that you aren't high enough to marry his son, and to him you are no more than a lowly servant. She was hurt, and surprised, never guessing that Thranduil really thought of he as a lowly elf.
Concerning Kili, she doesnt love him (yet) but looks upon him as a friend. When she realizes his real feelings for her, i would agree that she is suprised and conflicted. I myself find Tauriel and Kili a really cute couple, and was shushing my brother next to me so i could hear. When Kili reached for her hand, i was trying not to cry, it was soooo sweet :)
Anyway, im looking forward to TaBA, although not so much Bo5A :'(

'"Answer the question, filth!"'


Riven Delve
Grey Havens


Jan 13 2014, 5:08pm

Post #23 of 47 (347 views)
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Two points I hadn't thought of, Dame Ioreth [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
his dismissal of her both in terms of helping other peoples and in regards to Legolas is a double blow in the same conversation. His indifference to her as an individual and also as a captain of his guard stings. He brushes her counsel aside. No wonder she went off and talked to the only folks in the kingdom who would understand how an outsider felt. I agree, Kili coupled with the Feast of Starlight they were celebrating, were the prod she needed to strike out on her own.




I had never considered the double blow Thranduil gives Tauriel by ignoring her advice to get rid of the spiders at their source. Ouch! Pirate I can't decide if I should give Thranduil credit for trying to soften the blow a bit by mentioning how well she fought, or if his mentioning that the compliment came from Legolas is merely the introduction to his "Don't even think about it" speech. I'm inclined to think the latter. (And, imagine what would happen if a small Mirkwood party did start nosing around Dol Guldur trying to kill spiders right under Sauron's nose! Shocked)



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Tauriel got a does of understanding while listening to his rambling while she was tending to his wound. Thranduil was cruel in his informing her she and his son were not meant to be. Now the shoe is on the other foot and she is the object of desire from a party that she would never consider. How will she handle Kili and his feelings?




I'm not sure where I stand on how she and Kili feel about each other, although I'm leaning toward your interpretation. I am certain she doesn't know what to think of Kili's ramblings, and I respect her for her hesitation in responding to him.


Thanks for posting your insights! Smile


"Our perennial spiritual and psychological task is to look at things familiar until they become unfamiliar again." --G. K. Chesterton



jkm7
Bree


Jan 13 2014, 7:25pm

Post #24 of 47 (323 views)
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Still don't warm up to her [In reply to] Can't Post

I have to say, I still can't bring myself to like that character. I had such high hopes, but for me she just feels out of place, takes screentime away from much more important characters, EL is just not a good actress and I don't like the look of Tauriel. She just doesn't manage to convince me as an elf. Especially compared to actors like Lee Pace who is just perfect as one. Also I do not like the love story she was given, it's just so chliche, "oh a female character, she has to have love story." I wouldn't have minded a female captain of the guard, in fact I was quite excited when I heard that they would be gender-bending that role, so the more dissapointed I am now, that they made her this unbelievable Mary Sue character and gave her that embarrassing healing scene. A lot of ppl were even laughing in the cinema during that, it was just so ridiculous.Why not stick to the book and make the captain of the guard responsible for the dwarves escape? It would have made her a lot more likable and believable if she would have been at least a bit flawed. She could have gotten drunk and let the dwarves escape and then go after them to catch them again, but no, she has to be the rebel for a good cause, fighting against the isolation policy (which doesn't appear in the book and is imo also just an invention for the movie to make her look rebellious and therefore likeable). I personally just hope we will not see much of her in TABA.


dormouse
Half-elven


Jan 13 2014, 7:37pm

Post #25 of 47 (305 views)
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May I just say thanks for a lovely thoughtful thread... [In reply to] Can't Post

I've been reading through, and though I haven't been able to see the film as often as the rest of you, I love some of the insights people have come up with.

I had mixed feelings about Tauriel before seeing the film. I could see the sense in adding a new elf character and could see why they chose female - why not, after all - but I wasn't sure about the 'girl warrior' aspect. Once I saw her it was fine, because there are so many subtleties in her character and I think they've done a fine job, both with the acting and the writing. And she has some of the best music. But it was the 'Feast of Starlight' conversation that really won me over. It echoes Cuivienen and the awakening, and so much that I've always loved about the elves, and there is a lot in her character that recalls the elf women of the Silmarillion and their stories.

I can't wait to see the film again - even if I have to wait for the DVD!

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