Our Sponsor Sideshow Collectibles Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien
Do you enjoy the 100% volunteer, not for profit services of TheOneRing.net?
Consider a donation!

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Main:
Anyone Else Wish Tolkien Had Written More of the Second Age?

KingTurgon
Rohan


Jan 7 2014, 4:15am

Post #1 of 17 (245 views)
Shortcut
Anyone Else Wish Tolkien Had Written More of the Second Age? Can't Post

Personally, I find that age to be fascinating and wish he had given us an in-depth story on it like he did with The Silmarillion (1st) and The Hobbit and LOTR (3rd). Anyone else feel similar?

On a side note, I'd love to see a Peter Jackson-esque film about the War of the Last Alliance. Would be a cool way to expand the mythology.


Cirashala
Grey Havens


Jan 7 2014, 4:20am

Post #2 of 17 (170 views)
Shortcut
check out Unfinished Tales [In reply to] Can't Post

I believe the Fall of Numenor happened in the 2nd age, as did the forging of the Rings of Power, and the battle of the Last Alliance ended it.



Meneldor
Tol Eressea


Jan 7 2014, 4:22am

Post #3 of 17 (158 views)
Shortcut
I'd like to know more [In reply to] Can't Post

about the Numenorean voyages of exploration and opposition to Sauron. That has the potential to make a good Voyage of the Dawn Treader style adventure story.


They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters; These see the works of the Lord, and His wonders in the deep.


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Jan 7 2014, 4:31am

Post #4 of 17 (166 views)
Shortcut
Tales of the Second Age [In reply to] Can't Post

There should be some terrific stories of heroism, exploration and tragedy to tell of the Kings and folk of Numenor. I know that some of us are interested in the deceptions that Sauron carried out as Annatar and as a captive of Ar-Pharazon. A more detailed story of the last days of Numenor could be a great read.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


KingTurgon
Rohan


Jan 7 2014, 4:59am

Post #5 of 17 (153 views)
Shortcut
Personally [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm really curious as to what exactly happened in The Last Alliance War. I'd love to see an account as detailed as The War of the Ring about it. I actually had an idea for a 2nd-Age trilogy:

1. War of the Elves and Sauron
2. Downfall of Numenor
3. The Last Alliance


squire
Valinor


Jan 7 2014, 12:19pm

Post #6 of 17 (149 views)
Shortcut
The Second Age was a johnny-come-lately [In reply to] Can't Post

It's really Tolkien's attempt to fit his Numenor story into a mythology that already had the so-called First and Third Ages worked out, but with an indefinite amount of time between the two, and a major episode (the Downfall) that sort of wanted to be related to it all. The resulting chronology is more artistic than annalistic, with all kinds of unanswered questions about what was going on back on Middle-earth for the 3000 years of Numenor's rise and fall.

After he outlined this structure (in the appendices of LotR as published in the 1950s), and wrote out the Akallabeth that we now have (as published posthumously in the Silmarillion), he spent his remaining years of fictional composition trying to get his Silmarillion tales from the First Age up to publishable quality, in the style of The Lord of the Rings. I doubt he had the energy for or really the interest in trying to create a third major epic cycle worthy of an entire Age.

The exception to this, of course, is his one essay in Second Age storytelling, the really excellent 'Mariner's Wife' which appears in Unfinished Tales. Have you read that?



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Footeramas: The 3rd (and NOW the 4th too!) TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion; and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


= Forum has no new posts. Forum needs no new posts.


Brethil
Half-elven


Jan 7 2014, 2:11pm

Post #7 of 17 (127 views)
Shortcut
Quite true Squire [In reply to] Can't Post

I am out and don't have Letters with me (terrible. I should carry them around!) but he mentions that he could have expanded exponentially on the Numenor dynastic struggles but felt that it would fall into the trap of being merely a story of mystery and intrigue without the merit of the larger tale. In short I know he says "not worth doing."
So as fascinating as we might find the particular players (with the excellent example of Mariner's Wife, which we shall be discussing in the RR very soon) I think the epic scope of the Atlantean myth is what he wanted Numenor to stand for and he seemed to feel filling in too much would dilute its impact.
Its such a personal section of the myth, incorporating his recurring wave dream.

Have an idea relating to the world of JRR Tolkien that you would like to write about? If so, the Third TORn Amateur Symposium will be running in the Reading Room in March, 2014. We hope to see you there!





Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Jan 7 2014, 2:55pm

Post #8 of 17 (115 views)
Shortcut
Interesting [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm not sure how that would work on film, especially because the only figure central to all three stories is Sauron/Annatar. That would make for an unusaual trilogy.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


KingTurgon
Rohan


Jan 7 2014, 3:15pm

Post #9 of 17 (112 views)
Shortcut
I was thinking [In reply to] Can't Post

The elves (Gil-galad, Elrond, Thranduil, etc) would be the main good characters, with them being joined by Elendil and Isildur after the Downfall.


KingTurgon
Rohan


Jan 7 2014, 3:16pm

Post #10 of 17 (116 views)
Shortcut
I have not [In reply to] Can't Post

I need to get back to Unifinished Tales at some point, thanks for reminding me :)

I started it but then I got sidetracked by a book for school and just forgot to pick it back up. This was like 5 years ago lol


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Jan 7 2014, 3:38pm

Post #11 of 17 (112 views)
Shortcut
Aldarion and Erendis (The Mariner's Wife) [In reply to] Can't Post

The tale of Aldarion and Erendis strikes me as the kind of tragic love story that would be especially suited for adaptation as a stage play. However, it has been such a long time since I read it that I would have to re-read the story to judge its suitability for cinema.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


dreamflower
Lorien

Jan 8 2014, 6:49pm

Post #12 of 17 (81 views)
Shortcut
If you'd like to see the Second Age as it could have been expanded [In reply to] Can't Post

I highly recommend "Akallabeth in August", a project of the Silmarillion Writers Guild. This is a compilation of Second Age stories, all of them of high quality.

I especially recomment the "Into the Wild Abyss" series by pandemonium_213, which chronicles Sauron's activities during this time, and a multi-chapter story, "The Embalmer's Apprentice" by Lyra, which follows the career of an embalmer during that period when the kings of Numenor were becoming more and more obsessed with their mortality.

There's some really good stuff there!


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Jan 8 2014, 11:41pm

Post #13 of 17 (66 views)
Shortcut
The Mariner's Wife [In reply to] Can't Post

I re-read the story of "Aldarion and Erendis" from Unfinished Tales and I can't say that I could get a movie out of it. The story is rambling and doesn't have either a central villain or a central conflict beyond Aldarion won't stay on land and Erendis won't go to sea. None of the potential drama of the story is ever realized. Making their daughter the central character might help if the details about the later, unfinished part of the tale were not so sketchy.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


ElendilTheShort
Gondor


Jan 9 2014, 10:02am

Post #14 of 17 (53 views)
Shortcut
not at all a movie other than a romance drama [In reply to] Can't Post

read it long ago and from memory it bored me to no end.

I wish the war between Sauron and the elves was written about more. Sauron was truly terrible, killing Celebrimbor, shooting his body full of arrows, then using it as a war banner, that shows how bad he was.


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Jan 9 2014, 3:53pm

Post #15 of 17 (51 views)
Shortcut
Or a Quadrology? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I'm really curious as to what exactly happened in The Last Alliance War. I'd love to see an account as detailed as The War of the Ring about it. I actually had an idea for a 2nd-Age trilogy:

1. War of the Elves and Sauron
2. Downfall of Numenor
3. The Last Alliance



The Downfall of Numenor could be split into two films. Again, the biggest challenge of such a film series (after acquiring the filmrights) is that many details have to be invented and little is known about most of the principle characters of these stories. However, these could all be fantastic fantasy epics.

1. The War of the Elves and Sauron. Sauron as Annatar and the forging of the Rings of Power. He is defeated by Gil-galad and the fleet of Tar-Minastir of Numenor.

2. Sauron - King of Men. Sauron reveals himself openly and claims rulership over a large portion of Middle-earth. Bestowing himself with the title "King of Men", Sauron rouses the anger and pride of the Kings of Numenor. Ar-Pharazon lands in Umbar with a vast force and captures Sauron, taking the Dark Lord to Numenor as his prisoner.

3. The Downfall of Numenor. As the prisoner of Numenor's king Ar-Pharazon, Sauron slowly poisons the minds of many Numenoreans, playing on their fear of death to make them jealous and envious of the Valar. The majority turn away from the Valar to become worshipers of Melkor. Sauron convinces Ar-Pharazon that the people of Numenor can become immortal by invading Aman. The Valar react to the fleet by calling upon Illuvatar who severs the physical connection of the Undying Lands to Aman, destroying Numenor in the process. Sauron's body is caught up in the castrophe and he cannot assume a pleasing form ever again.

4. The Last Alliance. The events leading up to and including the Last Alliance of Elves and Men, beginning with Sauron's return to Mordor following the destruction of Numenor. Besides Sauron, principle characters could include Gil-galad, Elendil, Isildur, Anarion, Elrond, Cirdan, Glorfindel, Oropher, Thranduil, Galadriel and Celeborn. Celebrian could appear in a supporting role; Legolas was likely not born until early in the Third Age and would not come into this tale. Perhaps the movie could open with Glorfindel's return to Middle-earth after having been reborn in Valinor; the events leading up to his arrival can be revealed to him in flashback.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jan 9 2014, 3:57pm)


KingTurgon
Rohan


Jan 26 2014, 12:28am

Post #16 of 17 (16 views)
Shortcut
Nice [In reply to] Can't Post

I like your ideas, I just feel regarding a Downfall film - there really is not a lot of action in Akallabeth, so I think it would be better to give one of the wars 2 films instead. Too bad Christopher Tolkien is being a d-bag regarding the rights.


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Jan 26 2014, 1:34am

Post #17 of 17 (11 views)
Shortcut
Those were based on your own post [In reply to] Can't Post

I just expanded on and tweaked the ideas in your previous post. But, yeah, the whole Numenor arc with the captured Sauron could probably be told in a single film.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring

 
 

Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.