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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
Short answers

sador
Valinor


Jan 8, 4:23pm


Views: 100
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Short answers [In reply to] Can't Post

(at least, I hope they will be, and perhaps I will be able to respond to two of your challanging posts)

Finrod appears to move back into a listening position rather than a teaching one.
A return to a studentís place of observation?
He seems to be attempting to regain some of Andreth's trust, hence his honest disclosure of opinion, but he also asks, indirectly, if Men could be mistaken, having taken somewhat of the Elves philosophy, concerning mortality.
What do you think of this confession of Finrod?
It seems that you prefer the second option - that Finrod is taking a step back, to pump more out of Andreth. I am reluctant to accuse him of such underhand methods; I think he is genuinely interested in her, and in Men's thoughts and beliefs. So if he felt he has offended, he tries tyo reconcile; but he also realises that to understand better, he must accept for the moment her basic premises.


Andreth is sure of herself, Men were immortal, but she is unsure of the time. That fact is indisputable to her. Her clarification of the ideal state of Men, recalls an Edenic system to me, further supported by the idea that nothing was to die.
What do you think?
Yes, the Garden of Eden is an appropriate parallel - I expect it was (in Tolkien's mind) a source of this imagined belief.


Does Finrod's incredulity serve to illustrate the gulf between kindreds, outlining the fundamental differences in thought patterns?
Perhaps. But it also arises from this tale contradicting all that is known of the Music of the Ainur - surely decay came before the Third Music?!
I am not sure what this is supposed to reflect in Real Life: the incredulity of the pre-monothestic peoples at receiving the "joyful tidings" discussed in my reponse to your previous post, or the inherent contradiction between the first two chapter of the book of Genesis?


Now we really get a philosophical idea to work on.
What are your thoughts on this topic of debate, in context? What do you think of this idea, and its effectiveness in the Legendarium?
As I've stated above, it reflects the first two chapters of Genesis: that of this world as reflecting G-d's pure, inviolable creation - a and this world as the corruption by sin of a purer ideal.
How do we reconcile the two? We can't; but we belive (at least I do; and although adhering to a different religion than me, so did Tolkien) that both are true.
Absurd? Yes; but so is the wave-particle dualism.


Is Andreth's reticence in answer to the first matter annoying? Is it intentionally leaving answers open, or something that was not written yet?
I read it as if she really did not know. She might have speculated on an answer - but she might realise it was too weak to uphold for Finrod's scrutiny.


Subject User Time
RR Discussion: The Athrabeth Finrod Ah Andreth Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Dec 29 2013, 2:29am
    Prefaces and Introductions Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Dec 29 2013, 2:30am
        The Mortality is a lie. Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Dec 29 2013, 2:31am
            Life is so unfair Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Dec 29 2013, 2:31am
                Life is Pain Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Dec 29 2013, 2:32am
                    Life as we knew it Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Dec 29 2013, 2:33am
                        Why we are different Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Dec 29 2013, 2:33am
                            What is hope? Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Dec 29 2013, 2:33am
                                A New Hope? Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Dec 29 2013, 2:34am
                                    On a personal note Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Dec 29 2013, 2:34am
                                        Final Notes (**DOS SPOILER**) Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Dec 29 2013, 2:35am
                                            Let's try to finish this off... sador Send a private message to sador Jan 17, 10:03am
                                        Faith and Love in this life Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jan 10, 3:55am
                                            Thoughts back Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Jan 11, 8:32pm
                                                Great points Rem Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jan 11, 9:44pm
                                        Too little, too late sador Send a private message to sador Jan 16, 4:05pm
                                            Another reply Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Jan 16, 8:31pm
                                                Now you're drawing me out! sador Send a private message to sador Jan 17, 7:35am
                                            Faramir Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Jan 16, 8:40pm
                                    A New Hope? Mikah Send a private message to Mikah Jan 5, 3:05am
                                        Speculating on Eru CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jan 9, 1:26am
                                            The physicality of Andreth Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jan 9, 1:52am
                                                Doubly cheated CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jan 9, 1:06pm
                                                    Wisdom and sacrifice Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jan 10, 2:20am
                                    Inside and Outside and saviors Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jan 9, 1:38am
                                    Short and selcetive sador Send a private message to sador Jan 14, 3:01pm
                                Old hope and new. Mikah Send a private message to Mikah Dec 31 2013, 4:58am
                                    My take... Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Dec 31 2013, 3:26pm
                                        I love this Mikah Send a private message to Mikah Dec 31 2013, 3:58pm
                                        Wonderful thoughts CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jan 7, 2:24am
                                            An RL analogue? Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Jan 7, 2:45am
                                            Finrod, and subtexting Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jan 7, 3:29am
                                Estel and Amdir Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jan 4, 5:12am
                                    Faith and Hope Mikah Send a private message to Mikah Jan 5, 2:29am
                                        Great piece of scripture Mikah Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jan 5, 4:33am
                                            Of faith, hope, and Fingolfin Mikah Send a private message to Mikah Jan 5, 3:39pm
                                                A rationale for the irrational? Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Jan 7, 2:27am
                                                Fingolfin, Eowyn, Frodo CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jan 7, 2:51am
                                                    Hmmm... Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Jan 7, 3:15am
                                                        Interesting Mikah Send a private message to Mikah Jan 7, 6:08am
                                                            Giving in to ideal hope--indeed a cool notion. // CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jan 7, 1:07pm
                                                                Moral Imperitives. Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Jan 7, 9:16pm
                                                                    Fingolfin and rewards CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jan 9, 1:18am
                                                                        Fingolfin and the Halls of Mandos Mikah Send a private message to Mikah Jan 9, 6:00pm
                                        Comments and my two cents... Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Jan 7, 2:38am
                                            Great metaphor Rem! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jan 7, 3:36am
                                For one thing, I hope to complete this... sador Send a private message to sador Jan 13, 2:16pm
                                    Replies.... Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Jan 14, 1:53am
                                        (I do that too Rem!) Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jan 14, 2:11am
                            Condition of Elves, Men, and Arda Mikah Send a private message to Mikah Dec 30 2013, 12:11am
                                I agree most whole-heartedly Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Dec 30 2013, 1:34am
                            Life after death, for men and elves Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jan 1, 8:15pm
                                Ambiguity and Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Jan 2, 3:17am
                                    Keeping us all Finrod-ed (and confused?) Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jan 2, 3:48am
                            My, I am slow! sador Send a private message to sador Jan 9, 6:32pm
                                A quick reply. (See what I did there!) Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Jan 9, 7:07pm
                                    The Tale of Adanel Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jan 10, 1:56am
                                    The plans for Men and Elves Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jan 10, 2:03am
                        Disharmony of Men Mikah Send a private message to Mikah Dec 29 2013, 5:57pm
                            Everlasting life Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Dec 29 2013, 6:17pm
                            I love this evolving concept! Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Dec 29 2013, 6:33pm
                                Is faith the difference? Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Dec 29 2013, 7:00pm
                                    I think that the alterations of the original..., Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Dec 29 2013, 7:15pm
                                    You do have a point... Mikah Send a private message to Mikah Dec 29 2013, 7:17pm
                                        Indeed Mikah - back to the OP! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Dec 29 2013, 7:23pm
                        Short answers sador Send a private message to sador Jan 8, 4:23pm
                    Relative faith in their futures Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Dec 29 2013, 6:45am
                        Power of Morgoth Mikah Send a private message to Mikah Dec 29 2013, 4:45pm
                            Agreed Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Dec 29 2013, 5:59pm
                                Yes, the bucket of cold water... Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Dec 29 2013, 6:22pm
                                    A slap in the face? Mikah Send a private message to Mikah Dec 29 2013, 6:36pm
                                        And to degenerate the idea even further Mikah, I picture the Fish Slapping Dance!! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Dec 29 2013, 6:39pm
                                            LOL! Mikah Send a private message to Mikah Dec 29 2013, 6:43pm
                                                Maybe it will become the new 'Legolas's sense of direction' Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Dec 31 2013, 4:39pm
                                                    Fish-slapping and wife-beating would explain Finrod's bachelorhood. CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jan 6, 10:40pm
                                                        Great Insight Curious George! Mikah Send a private message to Mikah Jan 7, 5:45am
                    Has Tolkien read RH Benson? sador Send a private message to sador Jan 7, 9:08pm
                        Thoughts back Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Jan 7, 9:29pm
                            The spirit turning-point for Finrod Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jan 8, 6:38pm
                                Both personal and philosophical CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jan 9, 1:13am
                                    Potenially a return to Firstborn and Follower? Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jan 9, 2:03am
                                        It appears as the pivot point to me, anyway. CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jan 9, 12:56pm
                                            I think you are right Curious George... Mikah Send a private message to Mikah Jan 9, 5:54pm
                Comparative sadness Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Dec 29 2013, 4:22am
                    Elvish despair Mikah Send a private message to Mikah Dec 29 2013, 6:10am
                        More agreement ... Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Dec 29 2013, 6:56am
                            Andreth Mikah Send a private message to Mikah Dec 31 2013, 5:10am
                Plodding along sador Send a private message to sador Jan 6, 4:18pm
                    Thoughts.... Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Jan 7, 2:21am
                    Delayed musing.. Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Jan 10, 4:16am
                        This is an important concept... Mikah Send a private message to Mikah Jan 11, 5:28pm
                        Following your example Rem, I too have a delayed musing... Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jan 11, 5:29pm
                            Good question... Mikah Send a private message to Mikah Jan 11, 6:07pm
                                Agreed about Elendil Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jan 13, 1:00am
                        This musing of yours brings me back to the Ainulindale, Rem Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jan 11, 8:17pm
            Arda Marred and Western trips Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Dec 29 2013, 3:45am
                Tribulation in Middle Earth Mikah Send a private message to Mikah Dec 29 2013, 5:20am
                    Great points here Mikah!!!!! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Dec 29 2013, 6:07am
                        Pondering the point further... Mikah Send a private message to Mikah Dec 29 2013, 7:02am
                    Out of the mouths of babes Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Dec 29 2013, 6:45pm
            Plodding along sador Send a private message to sador Jan 6, 6:32am
                On sponge-men Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Jan 7, 2:06am
                Two interesting ideas Sador Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jan 7, 2:36pm
        This all looks most wondrous Rem! (rubs hands) Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Dec 29 2013, 3:08am
            My, you HAVE been productive!!! Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Dec 29 2013, 5:56pm
                We *were* very busy Rem Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Dec 29 2013, 6:43pm
                    We really were... Mikah Send a private message to Mikah Dec 29 2013, 6:48pm
                        Me too Mikah! // Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Dec 29 2013, 7:04pm
        Morgoth's Ring Mikah Send a private message to Mikah Dec 29 2013, 4:22am
            I agree Mikah Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Dec 29 2013, 4:28am
        First answers sador Send a private message to sador Jan 2, 2:26pm
        Story construction CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jan 7, 1:40am
    Oh wow... Mikah Send a private message to Mikah Dec 29 2013, 3:26am
    Just one short note, Rem, sador Send a private message to sador Jan 2, 1:50pm
        Yes Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Jan 2, 8:51pm
    just wanted to say... Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jan 7, 2:12pm
        I hope you can join us soon CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jan 7, 10:45pm

 
 
 

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