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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Peter Jackson and The Desolation of Progress
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Tinuvielinthemiddle
The Shire

Jan 5 2014, 4:10am

Post #1 of 94 (1757 views)
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Peter Jackson and The Desolation of Progress Can't Post

First of all, I want to thank you for welcoming me to this wonderful forum. I've always felt very alone when it comes to taste. I am a Latina living in new york. The times are really high but when you are tortuous I like the support of the " nerds " . So for me it's a thrill to find a space to share my love of Tolkien and his work with people who feel the same affection for his countless stories.
For director Peter Jackson his work on the trilogy The Lord of the Rings was a revolution in his career, from his flirtation with the B series and participation in productions such as Bad Taste , Braindead with which he gained a small but loyal fan quarry , to become one of the most important filmmakers and producers of the past decade that have allowed him to plan and carry out their own whims: directing a remake of King Kong full of special effects, take over the big screen adaptation of the novel the Lovely Bones by Alice Sebold or fund projects such as District 9, Neill Blomkamp or the Adventures of Tintin the Secret of the Steven Spielberg Unicorn. All this has been possible thanks to the overwhelming success of a series of films that have marked time.
Well, on to the critique of the film. This tape has definitely lost my faith in cinema. The LOTR for me was always a glimmer of hope, a constant pleasure. But this one for me was like reaching into the bag of Starbucks coffee beans. We are victims of an industry devoted to rob us every day with their productions and remakes. The industry scams us friends, living out of our pockets. Why continue to feed the fever commercial cinema?
There were times where filmmaking was sweat, tears, sacrifice? Today all our food becomes art through a GREEN SCREEN. You are to blame for this dying art every day. You are the culprits that prefer to watch movies on netflix and not in imax.
You think the world is perfect and you might wake up next to Galadriel after a night out? No, in the real world you wake up next to GOLLUM. GALADRIEL is a macho image of what man seeks in woman: blond hair , frigidity , white dress, light weight. As a latina in new york I find this offensive.
I will go back to Belmondo, with dolce vitta with an Eiffel tower in black and white, 35 mm. No, I do not wet the 3d, I did not wet green screens let alone the devastation they have done with Tolkien. This has gone too far. They have ruined the skin sweating humanity on screen and the hard labor. Tolkien saw through machinery. Peter Jackson revels it. It is a phallucy. No more can be said.
Forgive me for my harshness, but I had to get it out of my chest.
Namar´Ú,
Tin˙viel In the middle


Tim
Tol Eressea


Jan 5 2014, 4:29am

Post #2 of 94 (917 views)
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You obviously haven't watched the "making of" stuff for LOTR and The Hobbit AUJ... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
First of all, I want to thank you for welcoming me to this wonderful forum. I've always felt very alone when it comes to taste. I am a Latina living in new york. The times are really high but when you are tortuous I like the support of the " nerds " . So for me it's a thrill to find a space to share my love of Tolkien and his work with people who feel the same affection for his countless stories.
For director Peter Jackson his work on the trilogy The Lord of the Rings was a revolution in his career, from his flirtation with the B series and participation in productions such as Bad Taste , Braindead with which he gained a small but loyal fan quarry , to become one of the most important filmmakers and producers of the past decade that have allowed him to plan and carry out their own whims: directing a remake of King Kong full of special effects, take over the big screen adaptation of the novel the Lovely Bones by Alice Sebold or fund projects such as District 9, Neill Blomkamp or the Adventures of Tintin the Secret of the Steven Spielberg Unicorn. All this has been possible thanks to the overwhelming success of a series of films that have marked time.
Well, on to the critique of the film. This tape has definitely lost my faith in cinema. The LOTR for me was always a glimmer of hope, a constant pleasure. But this one for me was like reaching into the bag of Starbucks coffee beans. We are victims of an industry devoted to rob us every day with their productions and remakes. The industry scams us friends, living out of our pockets. Why continue to feed the fever commercial cinema?
There were times where filmmaking was sweat, tears, sacrifice? Today all our food becomes art through a GREEN SCREEN. You are to blame for this dying art every day. You are the culprits that prefer to watch movies on netflix and not in imax.
You think the world is perfect and you might wake up next to Galadriel after a night out? No, in the real world you wake up next to GOLLUM. GALADRIEL is a macho image of what man seeks in woman: blond hair , frigidity , white dress, light weight. As a latina in new york I find this offensive.
I will go back to Belmondo, with dolce vitta with an Eiffel tower in black and white, 35 mm. No, I do not wet the 3d, I did not wet green screens let alone the devastation they have done with Tolkien. This has gone too far. They have ruined the skin sweating humanity on screen and the hard labor. Tolkien saw through machinery. Peter Jackson revels it. It is a phallucy. No more can be said.
Forgive me for my harshness, but I had to get it out of my chest.
Namar´Ú,
Tin˙viel In the middle


The "blood, sweat, and tears" are quite evident.

It's all a labor of creativity, the tools have just changed. Tools I actually prefer since they bring special effects to a level I wish I could have enjoyed growing up in the 70's and 80's.

If IMAX wants to be competitive with Netflix, it may have to change. Change is the driving force in our world, there's really no getting around it. Personally, I like the wide variety of choices I have when it comes to my entertainment dollar, and I hold neither IMAX, the theater experience, or Netflix sacred.

Not sure where you're going with Galadriel, she is what she is, pretty much straight from the book appearance-wise.

You're welcome to your opinion, but everyone's got one and there's no way PJ or anyone else can make a movie that'll please everyone. Different strokes for different folks.

Arthur: What manner of man are you that can summon up fire without flint or tinder?
Tim: I... am an enchanter.
Arthur: By what name are you known?
Tim: There are some who call me... 'Tim'...?
Arthur: ...greetings, Tim the Enchanter.


Tinuvielinthemiddle
The Shire

Jan 5 2014, 4:34am

Post #3 of 94 (889 views)
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Peter green screen [In reply to] Can't Post

hello, thanks for reading. I really appreciate your response. if I have to be honest ... I will not spend on the dvd of the film. I think an absolute loss of money. I would like to further discuss with you about this film and others.


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Jan 5 2014, 4:54am

Post #4 of 94 (821 views)
Shortcut
Ditto [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

In Reply To
First of all, I want to thank you for welcoming me to this wonderful forum. I've always felt very alone when it comes to taste. I am a Latina living in new york. The times are really high but when you are tortuous I like the support of the " nerds " . So for me it's a thrill to find a space to share my love of Tolkien and his work with people who feel the same affection for his countless stories.
For director Peter Jackson his work on the trilogy The Lord of the Rings was a revolution in his career, from his flirtation with the B series and participation in productions such as Bad Taste , Braindead with which he gained a small but loyal fan quarry , to become one of the most important filmmakers and producers of the past decade that have allowed him to plan and carry out their own whims: directing a remake of King Kong full of special effects, take over the big screen adaptation of the novel the Lovely Bones by Alice Sebold or fund projects such as District 9, Neill Blomkamp or the Adventures of Tintin the Secret of the Steven Spielberg Unicorn. All this has been possible thanks to the overwhelming success of a series of films that have marked time.
Well, on to the critique of the film. This tape has definitely lost my faith in cinema. The LOTR for me was always a glimmer of hope, a constant pleasure. But this one for me was like reaching into the bag of Starbucks coffee beans. We are victims of an industry devoted to rob us every day with their productions and remakes. The industry scams us friends, living out of our pockets. Why continue to feed the fever commercial cinema?
There were times where filmmaking was sweat, tears, sacrifice? Today all our food becomes art through a GREEN SCREEN. You are to blame for this dying art every day. You are the culprits that prefer to watch movies on netflix and not in imax.
You think the world is perfect and you might wake up next to Galadriel after a night out? No, in the real world you wake up next to GOLLUM. GALADRIEL is a macho image of what man seeks in woman: blond hair , frigidity , white dress, light weight. As a latina in new york I find this offensive.
I will go back to Belmondo, with dolce vitta with an Eiffel tower in black and white, 35 mm. No, I do not wet the 3d, I did not wet green screens let alone the devastation they have done with Tolkien. This has gone too far. They have ruined the skin sweating humanity on screen and the hard labor. Tolkien saw through machinery. Peter Jackson revels it. It is a phallucy. No more can be said.
Forgive me for my harshness, but I had to get it out of my chest.
Namar´Ú,
Tin˙viel In the middle


The "blood, sweat, and tears" are quite evident.

It's all a labor of creativity, the tools have just changed. Tools I actually prefer since they bring special effects to a level I wish I could have enjoyed growing up in the 70's and 80's.

If IMAX wants to be competitive with Netflix, it may have to change. Change is the driving force in our world, there's really no getting around it. Personally, I like the wide variety of choices I have when it comes to my entertainment dollar, and I hold neither IMAX, the theater experience, or Netflix sacred.

Not sure where you're going with Galadriel, she is what she is, pretty much straight from the book appearance-wise.

You're welcome to your opinion, but everyone's got one and there's no way PJ or anyone else can make a movie that'll please everyone. Different strokes for different folks.


I am fire.. I am death. -Smaug the magnificent


Tinuvielinthemiddle
The Shire

Jan 5 2014, 4:59am

Post #5 of 94 (790 views)
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THANKS [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi, thank you very much for your support. hope to keep in touch.
Tolkien alive! Smile


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Jan 5 2014, 5:03am

Post #6 of 94 (785 views)
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what about waking up next to Thranduil?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Evil

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Tinuvielinthemiddle
The Shire

Jan 5 2014, 5:07am

Post #7 of 94 (772 views)
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:) [In reply to] Can't Post

I prefer manlier men. Bardo or a dwarf with high tresses.


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Jan 5 2014, 5:11am

Post #8 of 94 (753 views)
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ahaha!! [In reply to] Can't Post

Wink

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Tinuvielinthemiddle
The Shire

Jan 5 2014, 5:13am

Post #9 of 94 (745 views)
Shortcut
:) [In reply to] Can't Post

give me your facebook, please.I would argue with you about the work of Tolkien;)


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Jan 5 2014, 5:16am

Post #10 of 94 (727 views)
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no problem just PM me and i will [In reply to] Can't Post

 

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Tinuvielinthemiddle
The Shire

Jan 5 2014, 5:20am

Post #11 of 94 (716 views)
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<3 [In reply to] Can't Post

oh, ok ;)


DwellerInDale
Rohan


Jan 5 2014, 5:29am

Post #12 of 94 (788 views)
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Could you clarify something please? [In reply to] Can't Post

The following passage left me puzzled:


Quote
No, I do not wet the 3d, I did not wet green screens let alone the devastation they have done with Tolkien.

As is it sounds like a bladder problem.



.

Don't mess with my favorite female elf.











(This post was edited by DwellerInDale on Jan 5 2014, 5:30am)


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Jan 5 2014, 5:30am

Post #13 of 94 (720 views)
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LOL [In reply to] Can't Post

 

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tsmith675
Gondor


Jan 5 2014, 5:33am

Post #14 of 94 (728 views)
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Things change... [In reply to] Can't Post

Film in the early 2000s wasn't the same as it was in the 50s. Film today isn't the same as it was a decade ago and film will not be the same in teeth years as it is now. That doesn't mean it's a bad thing, though. Things are constantly changing in the world of cinema.

But don't for a second think that filmmakers work less hard now than they did at any other point in filmmaking history. With new filming techniques come new challenges and new problems. The same "blood, sweat and tears" goes into films today. Peter Jackson is a magnificent filmmaker. He's extremely talented and he puts everything into the project he's working on. Just because it may not be 100% your taste, doesn't mean he doesn't work as hard as he used to.

Trust me, just because technology moves forward doesn't mean it makes filmmaking easier.

"This day we FIGHT!"


Tinuvielinthemiddle
The Shire

Jan 5 2014, 5:34am

Post #15 of 94 (728 views)
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problem [In reply to] Can't Post

I have a medical problem which I can not talk. I'm sorry
lack of understanding is that English is my second language.


thanks for your comment


Tinuvielinthemiddle
The Shire

Jan 5 2014, 5:39am

Post #16 of 94 (717 views)
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brown woman [In reply to] Can't Post

I am a nostalgic girl and I have the suspicion of tolkien by technological advancement, despite not being white


(This post was edited by Altaira on Jan 5 2014, 5:47am)


hexxenpanda
The Shire

Jan 5 2014, 5:39am

Post #17 of 94 (701 views)
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I don't see how PJ's The Hobbit ruins the art-form of film [In reply to] Can't Post

This tape has definitely lost my faith in cinema. The LOTR for me was always a glimmer of hope, a constant pleasure. But this one for me was like reaching into the bag of Starbucks coffee beans. We are victims of an industry devoted to rob us every day with their productions and remakes. The industry scams us friends, living out of our pockets. Why continue to feed the fever commercial cinema?
There were times where filmmaking was sweat, tears, sacrifice? Today all our food becomes art through a GREEN SCREEN. You are to blame for this dying art every day. You are the culprits that prefer to watch movies on netflix and not in imax.

Quote


Welcome to the torn forum! Hope you have a great timeCool

Movies have always been this way. Audiences pay the studios and theatres to provide them with art/entertainment. (What gives a person enjoyment from a film is mostly subjective) There is no robbery going on here, except for the overpriced food, which PJ have nothing to do with.



The advancement in technology that came in recent years does not mean that there is no hard work involved. The final product that is projected on screen is the result of years of conceptualization, design, hand-work by hundreds of artists. Filmmakers do not just push a button to make a movie. The actors had to spend long hours in hot sets in heavy costume and prosthetics, doing heavy physical acting and many stunts. ( SCENE 88.) Many of the cast and crew members had to spend months away from their families during the shoot + pickups and vfx artists worked their butts off to complete the film before the ever looming deadline. So no, the sweat, tears, and sacrifice was never lost; and NO, film is not a dying art, and green screen did not kill it. I mean have you seen Cecil B. Demille's The Ten Commandments? Gone with the Wind? Most of the exterior scenes were just filmed in a studio backlot and filled by blue screen.

P.S.: I do not know what you mean by "Today all our food becomes art through a GREEN SCREEN" Also, Netflix capable devices are far more common than IMAX theatres. I mean the nearest one to me is 4 hours away, and I can't drive that distance in Canadian winter conditions. Although there is an art-house theatre in our city, and it's pretty popular.


Tinuvielinthemiddle
The Shire

Jan 5 2014, 5:46am

Post #18 of 94 (686 views)
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cinema [In reply to] Can't Post

Thank you for hosting.
La dolce vitta is a cinematic masterpiece that did not need a green or blue screen. Only a noble souls, eager art were able to do this great work of cinema. A camera, a camera only allowed us to see the dreams and longings of a director. That today is lost, no longer sees the vision, the soul of the directors. Are mere puppets commercial, they carried away by the millions and the conditions of the large producers. Our cinema is MANOFACTURADA HANDLING.
So back to the nouvelle vague, back to art where hands were needed, not computers.


Elciryamo
Rivendell

Jan 5 2014, 6:02am

Post #19 of 94 (633 views)
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First of all, welcome [In reply to] Can't Post

I appreciate your thoughts, even if I don't share them, but it is a good discussion topic.

I understand the pain of the "green screen" production values, but I don't think that diminishes the work that is being done. While the Hobbit trilogy does not have the same feel as LOTR trilogy, I think that is a matter of choice rather than the tools used.

It is difficult to see the transition but I think it is a matter of tone to the film, and showing a much more immature view of Bilbo, as and it expands as his knowledge expands. So, the character of Bilbo and his interaction with the Dwarves, among other characters, are, to me, the driving force of the film. Again, it is a similar feel to Frodo, but not quite the same, since the stakes are not quite the same.

Again, I understand your frustration, but the Hobbit is a whole different book, in terms of tone and scope, and I think the movie tries to bridge the gap between the tone of the book and the audience's understanding of Middle Earth based on the LOTR trilogy. It isn't the same because I don't think it should be. I think it should be more fun and less serious, and then grow towards the serious.

Hope that all makes sense!


Elskidor
Rohan


Jan 5 2014, 6:04am

Post #20 of 94 (621 views)
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Well, just about anything is considered an art [In reply to] Can't Post

and one form of art should not be downplayed as less important or as unique because of how it differs from another form of art. No less work or dreams went into one project than the other.

Tolkien Elimination Game (Round 3: Villains)


http://newboards.theonering.net/forum/gforum/perl/gforum.cgi?post=697710;sb=post_time;so=DESC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread


Tinuvielinthemiddle
The Shire

Jan 5 2014, 6:08am

Post #21 of 94 (621 views)
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colombia [In reply to] Can't Post

I love the contradiction between the torpedo and fluid film with static jackson, tolkien anarchist and monarchist. reminds me of my own experience as Colombian border entering the united states

pass a traditional and dangerous environment to vibrant world of development


Tinuvielinthemiddle
The Shire

Jan 5 2014, 6:12am

Post #22 of 94 (615 views)
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art [In reply to] Can't Post

there are people who are years and years studying to become a true artist and I looked at his work us with popcorn and iphone in hand. not deserve the art review. in my country it is necessary barefoot enter a museum, a theater, a cinema. It is our mark of respect to that which fills our soul: the art.

art in my country are like cows in India.


hexxenpanda
The Shire

Jan 5 2014, 6:40am

Post #23 of 94 (608 views)
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Not all films have to be artistic statements [In reply to] Can't Post

The Hobbit was always gonna be a genre film. I mean, Andy Serkis's Gollum would be impossible without computer work. The CGI in The hobbit and Lotr was based on actual hand-crafted materials, laser scanned to a 3d model; So they still had sculptors As I said, just because there are computers involved, does not mean that there is no effort being put into it. That's like saying a book created on a word processing program is inferior to one from a handwritten source. Computers made it easier for a director to express themselves in the editing process, but he/she still has to work a lot to make a film work. Just because computers are involved does not mean that a director has gone completely emotionless.

For example, Martin Scorsese used digital cameras, 3d, and Computer technology to bring his passion to life in HUGO. A film, which in my opinion, is a masterpiece. Computers do not clog up a director's imagination, but rather allows them to execute the ideas that they want as well as encouraging them to be more free. For good or ill.

Any of us who have seen the behind the scenes video on peter jackson's page know his IMMENSE Passion for this project, as well as the cast and crew. I can't see how these films are puppet commercials, aside from the occasional animatronic orc on one or two shots.

In my opinion, the ideas matter more than the technicalities. If Lotr's Gollum even in his cutting edge CGI had badly written character, then he would not have made the impact that he did.(fortunately, the films were awesome.) But if Gollum had great writing but crap CGI, then the character would still fail. The way I see it, a director is both a technician and an artist, fail in either and the rest will suffer.


Elskidor
Rohan


Jan 5 2014, 6:45am

Post #24 of 94 (584 views)
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That is a good comparison [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
That's like saying a book created on a word processing program is inferior to one from a handwritten source.


Tolkien Elimination Game (Round 3: Villains)


http://newboards.theonering.net/forum/gforum/perl/gforum.cgi?post=697710;sb=post_time;so=DESC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread


Tinuvielinthemiddle
The Shire

Jan 5 2014, 6:55am

Post #25 of 94 (583 views)
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gollum [In reply to] Can't Post

First, a clarification: I agree that computer Gollum gives the creature life and complex vibrance, and perhaps I was too stubborn with the digital mess. I apologize if I appear a bit insane, but Tolkien has special place in my life always has.

As a child, living amid the guerrillas Barranquilla, Colombia, the only thing that gave me hope was reading "The Silmarillion" while the fire shots sounded outside. I dreamed of being luthien tinuviel and free myself with my long tresses. My boyfriend treated me well, but he was too much as FŰanor, always willful, never a caress. And the darkness encroached as i felt the hopelessness after the light of Two Trees faded away, and i was in the web of Ungoliant.

Now i am in this country of development and consumerism and it is a shock, a wilderness. But i am trying to used to it as i am trying to use to peter jackson's marvelos. I hope that makes sense

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