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Mad Baggins
The Shire
Jan 5 2014, 12:09am
Post #1 of 32
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If Peter Jackson 'did a Star Wars' on LotR
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This is a conversation I've had in real life, so throwing it over to the online world now.
What if, a year after the final Hobbit film, Peter Jackson announced he was going back to LotR and was going to redo some of the CGI to bring it up to modern standards, as well as add some new scenes that hadn't even made the extended versions?
My gut feeling is that people would be like, "Go for it!"
Yet it's precisely what George Lucas did with Star Wars, a a few times, and people hated the results.
So... the question... would you like him to do it... and do you think you'd like the result?
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Elutherian
Rohan
Jan 5 2014, 12:18am
Post #2 of 32
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There are a few things I'd be ok with...
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For instance:
1. Updating Gollum's CGI to Hobbit standards.
2. Replacing Ian Holm with Martin Freeman in the prologue.
3. Adding in a few scenes that were deleted even from the EE's (Eowyn battling Uruks in the caves, Frodo appearing as Gollum-like to Faramir, the Epilogue if it could be worked into the film somehow)
4. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, Add in the stairway that Gandalf climbs to explain how he ended up fighting the Balrog on top of a freaking mountain.
5. Other tiny SFX polishing (that Ruin in FOTR is looking a little aged)
Otherwise, no.
I don't want Tom Bombadil, I don't want the Scouring of the Shire, I don't want Aragorn vs. Sauron... nothing like Greedo shooting first or young Anakin in place of old Anakin. None of that crap. No major changes at all.
I'm all for a theatrical release of all the EE's though. Maybe even in IMAX 3-D.
The Grey Pilgrim, they once called me. Three hundred lives of men I walked this earth, and now I have no time...
(This post was edited by Elutherian on Jan 5 2014, 12:19am)
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Maciliel
Valinor
Jan 5 2014, 12:54am
Post #3 of 32
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you actually can see them in a few shots where gandalf fights the balrog on top of the mountain.
cheers --
.
aka. fili orc-enshield
+++++++++++++++++++
the scene, as i understand it, is exceptionally well-written. fili (in sort of a callback to the scene with the eagles), calls out "thorRIIIIIIN!!!" just as he sees the pale orc veer in for the kill. he picks up the severed arm of an orc which is lying on the ground, swings it up in desperation, effectively blocking the pale orc's blow. and thus, forever after, fili is known as "fili orc-enshield."
this earns him deep respect from his hard-to-please uncle. as well as a hug. kili wipes his boots on the pale orc's glory box. -- maciliel telpemairo
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Meneldor
Valinor
Jan 5 2014, 3:37am
Post #4 of 32
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PJ said if he ever Lucasizes his films, he'll be sure that the original versions are still available to those who prefer them. So, I'm fine with that kind of tinkering as an option.
They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters; These see the works of the Lord, and His wonders in the deep.
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Mad Baggins
The Shire
Jan 5 2014, 3:40am
Post #5 of 32
(765 views)
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PJ said if he ever Lucasizes his films, he'll be sure that the original versions are still available to those who prefer them. So, I'm fine with that kind of tinkering as an option.
I'd never heard that comment before, but it makes perfect sense. The way Lucas has tried to stop all previous versions of his films has been bizarre to witness.
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Barrow-Wight
Rohan
Jan 5 2014, 3:43am
Post #6 of 32
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I'm not too sure about this one it's Galadriel telling the story after all she only had the gist of it like Bilbo finding the Ring and Gollum being there but that would be the closest thing to Lucas replacing old Anakin with Young Anakin maybe if Ian Holm would be cool with it I'd be cool with it I kinda like the way it is now
that being said I put Martin Freeman in the prologue as soon as I got the DVD just to see how it would look check it out. it's one thing if I do it but if Jackson does it it's another thing lol
http://www.youtube.com/...X5Ry7aOwpdRKQk6Lgr4Q
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leonmuse
Rivendell
Jan 5 2014, 4:51am
Post #7 of 32
(775 views)
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you should have cut it 1 second sooner though! cheers!
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Barrow-Wight
Rohan
Jan 5 2014, 5:06am
Post #8 of 32
(766 views)
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I was thinking the same thing is it his reaction to Gollum?
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leonmuse
Rivendell
Jan 5 2014, 5:48am
Post #9 of 32
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leaving his reaction in makes it look a bit off,if you understand me
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Elciryamo
Rivendell
Jan 5 2014, 6:25am
Post #10 of 32
(761 views)
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but, I don't mind the Ian Holm in the prologue, anymore than I mind some of the more unrealistic stuff in Hobbit. It is from Bilbo's point of view, just like the prologue if from Galadriel's point of view, like someone else mentioned.
Personally, if PJ desides to tinker, it better be to add more scenes. Tweaking Gollum and other CG is ok, but shouldn't be the main focus of the project. It should be the breath more life in to the film.
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Elskidor
Rohan
Jan 5 2014, 7:16am
Post #11 of 32
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It works really well, and I am kinda hoping that this change is put in to Fellowship. I know a lot of people are totally against it, but I don't think it does anything but help the story. I don't want a bunch of new unneeded edits to my favorite trilogy of all time though!
Tolkien Elimination Game (Round 3: Villains)
http://newboards.theonering.net/forum/gforum/perl/gforum.cgi?post=697710;sb=post_time;so=DESC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread
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book Gandalf
Rohan
Jan 5 2014, 3:28pm
Post #12 of 32
(881 views)
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all i'd want is a release in higher definition, whatever the maximum resolution they did cgi in lotr id want that released, these new 4k tvs will be available soon!
i dont want anything touched in the films, i agree gollum could be updated but where do you stop? edit in better scale doubles? cgi the sword back into eomers sheath! lol it will only lead to some silly stuff!
This is a serious journey, not a hobbit walking-party.
(This post was edited by book Gandalf on Jan 5 2014, 3:29pm)
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Scourge of the Stoors
Rivendell
Jan 6 2014, 6:15am
Post #13 of 32
(647 views)
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Is there any way to digitally erase some of that grain?
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Shooting on film gave it a painterly quality that I quite appreciated, but there were some distance shots where the grain was just too much. I'd like to see some sort of retroactive smoothing and sharpening to eliminate the grain. Obviously it'd be difficult and probably expensive, but I think a man who put money out of his own pocket for HFR would be willing to invest in such an endeavor, if it's even possible to do.
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book Gandalf
Rohan
Jan 6 2014, 4:04pm
Post #14 of 32
(631 views)
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Shooting on film gave it a painterly quality that I quite appreciated, but there were some distance shots where the grain was just too much. I'd like to see some sort of retroactive smoothing and sharpening to eliminate the grain. Obviously it'd be difficult and probably expensive, but I think a man who put money out of his own pocket for HFR would be willing to invest in such an endeavor, if it's even possible to do.
can you point to any examples?
i personally would want to keep all that lovely ness
This is a serious journey, not a hobbit walking-party.
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Scourge of the Stoors
Rivendell
Jan 6 2014, 10:13pm
Post #15 of 32
(608 views)
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Mostly with distance shots where the faraway mountains and scenery are very detailed by the nature of their scale. The grain swims around and dances everywhere and it's really distracting and a bit too much. Also, there are even some white film spots from time to time. At LEAST get rid of those.
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Fredeghar Wayfarer
Lorien
Jan 6 2014, 11:04pm
Post #16 of 32
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...that Peter Jackson is already "doing a Star Wars" on LOTR by following it up with a CGI-heavy prequel trilogy that is getting mixed reviews. But that's another debate.
If Jackson ever did tinker with the LOTR films, I would hope it would only be minor changes at most. Just continuity issues to bring it in line with the Hobbit movies -- Martin Freeman in the prologue or updating the Gollum design in Fellowship. I don't see the need for much more than that. The original Star Wars movies were made in the days before CGI so it made some sense to tweak the special effects a bit and do things not possible at the time. LOTR already made use of computer effects and doesn't really look outdated by today's standards.
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Scourge of the Stoors
Rivendell
Jan 6 2014, 11:17pm
Post #17 of 32
(632 views)
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Greenscreen needs to be reworked
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The problem isn't really with the CG, but some of the greenscreen looks awful by today's standards. Merry and Pippin on Treebeard, Isildur putting on the ring in the FOTR prologue, etc. The lighting doesn't match up at all in some of these shots, and they need to be reworked.
Plus, there wouldn't be the ethical dilemma faced by ILM when changing other people's effects work. Weta has many of the same people onboard who worked on LotR.
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Cillendor
Lorien
Jan 7 2014, 1:51am
Post #18 of 32
(588 views)
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These are basically my thoughts, too.
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Didn't they also shoot something with Ghân-buri-Ghân? I know they have a promo shot of him for the card game, but that may not be from the movie footage. Still, I'd love to see the Drúedain.
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Oscarilbo
Lorien
Jan 7 2014, 3:10pm
Post #19 of 32
(563 views)
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It gives an idea of how could it look if PJ put it there. I think he will in the near future.
If PJ were to fix things, I guess Gollum in FOTR would be one of those. In bluray and in a 50" HD tv you can clearly see is another design.
Also, I don't see PJ fixing all Gollum shots to make it as real as he looks in The Hobbit, many of them are that realistic already. But some of them are pretty, lets say incomplete, kind of cartoonish in his facial movements, so maybe in the worst of them he can do something.
About Green Screen, I also think it could use some fixing here and there in selected scenes through the trilogy.
But the greater problem I see with the trilogy, specially now that giant HDTV displays and bluray dominates the market, are sacale and normal doubles. Now you can differentiate them easily and clearer than ever. But is difficult to know if the studio will put money on something like that.
"The World is Changed, I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air"
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Kendalf
Rohan
Jan 7 2014, 4:00pm
Post #20 of 32
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You can make changes without becoming George Lucas
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What if, a year after the final Hobbit film, Peter Jackson announced he was going back to LotR and was going to redo some of the CGI to bring it up to modern standards, as well as add some new scenes that hadn't even made the extended versions?
My gut feeling is that people would be like, "Go for it!" Yet it's precisely what George Lucas did with Star Wars, a a few times, and people hated the results.
But it's not quite "precisely what George Lucas did", is it? Lucas added wholly new features which would have been impossible at the time the film was made (eg CGI dinosaur-thingies) and even altered some existing scenes which had a dramatic effect on the narrative (eg Greedo shooting first). These types of changes (ones that fundamentally alter the nature of the film) are the ones that tend to prove unpopular and, in my book, with some justification.
However, if Jackson were simply to re-do the CGI, then I think people might be more willing to accept it. There's a world of difference between, say, buffing Gollum's appearance, improving the hordes at Pelennor, refining the green-screen in Fangorn and adding more goblins, bigger orcs or taller siege towers just because you've now got the bottomless pockets to do so. That's self-indulgence, not artistry.
In other words, were Jackson to improve what's there already, I think many would be happy enough. Were he to add to it, he'd be treading on very controversial ground.
Right, having said that, I'm now going to completely contradict myself 
I think, in actual fact, that there are additions and alterations Jackson could make to enrich the tapestry of his hexalogy without "fundamentally altering the nature of the film" as I put it above. For example, he could:
replace Holm's discovery of the Ring with Freeman's in the Prologue
digitally insert Thranduil into the background at the battle of the Last Alliance
digitally replace the face of one of the dwarves at the Council of Elrond with the face of Gloin
insert a single-sentence ADR reference to Dain's fall somewhere near the end of RotK (Gandalf on the balcony at Minas Tirith? Frodo during the floaty-map?)
To me, those are four alterations that would tighten the bonds between the trilogies and yet, crucially, have no impact whatsoever on the narrative.
Would I be happy if LotR remained forever untouched? Of course. It's nigh perfect as it is, ten years on. But would I be interested in seeing a CGI buff applied and these small changes made? Perhaps, but (it goes without saying) the manner and quality of their execution would be of paramount importance.
"I have walked there sometimes, beyond the forest and up into the night. I have seen the world fall away and the white light of forever fill the air."
(This post was edited by Kendalf on Jan 7 2014, 4:03pm)
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Kendalf
Rohan
Jan 7 2014, 4:10pm
Post #22 of 32
(555 views)
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I don't want Tom Bombadil, I don't want the Scouring of the Shire, I don't want Aragorn vs. Sauron...No major changes at all.
I'm all for a theatrical release of all the EE's though. Maybe even in IMAX 3-D.
You're in no danger of the first happening
The second, on the other hand, I suspect is on the cards. A 3D conversion of LotR? Which studio could possibly resist that?!
PS Not that it'll be the Ext Eds, though
"I have walked there sometimes, beyond the forest and up into the night. I have seen the world fall away and the white light of forever fill the air."
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Rubber John
The Shire
Jan 9 2014, 10:21pm
Post #24 of 32
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Aside from updating the FOTR Gollum model and inserting Martin Freeman, I would also like to see them correct Legolas' eyes in the scenes where Orlando "forgot" to put in his contact lenses.
Also, maybe fix a couple of continuity errors (the barrels at Henneth Annun as an example).
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) and New Line and WB won't be in a rush, I suspect, to upscale the trilogy until it is. 
Still bamboozled by TORn's regulations. Here's a link instead. Scroll down 'til you see the doors 
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