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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Interesting interviews with Bloom, Pace, and Armitage *SPOILER ALERT*
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Rowan Greene
Lorien


Jan 4 2014, 2:51pm

Post #1 of 26 (1680 views)
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Interesting interviews with Bloom, Pace, and Armitage *SPOILER ALERT* Can't Post

Bloom:
http://sagharboronline.com/...-orlando-bloom-27400

Pace & Armitage:
http://sagharboronline.com/...chard-armitage-27500

Interesting quote from Armitage interview:

SPOILER ALERT FOR THOSE WHO HAVEN’T READ THE HOBBIT

DP: Would you play your character any differently if you didn’t know that at the end of Tolkien’s book he dies?

RA: No, probably not. His death scene was left until quite late in the shoot. We didn’t shoot it until pick-ups, which I think was a good thing because I’d almost forgotten about that moment coming. I think that part of the creation of this character is offering the audience and other characters in the movie a potential future. He had to be someone who was going to be king, he was going to sit on that throne and return the dwarves to their former glory. And in a way, his death has to come by surprise to him. Having said that, I think one of the things– talking about Shakespeare again–that I admire about Richard the III is that he rides across the battlefield to fight, single-handedly, for his kingdom, for his crown. In the Battle of the Five Armies, Thorin is going to do something like that. It’s fatalistic. It’s almost an act of suicide. Playing it, it’s good I forgot I needed to die!

And one of many great insights from Pace (can't wait for Bo5A):

Q: Did you train to do any fighting?

LP: I trained to fight with swords. The fight scene was one of the most fun things I did on this movie. The stunt guys are so good, and I had the opportunity do quite a bit of the great stunt work, especially in the Battle of the Five Armies.



Beorn's Bees
Rivendell

Jan 4 2014, 3:08pm

Post #2 of 26 (895 views)
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Wow [In reply to] Can't Post

That is very interesting indeed! So, I assume that thorin will be sacrificing his life for something, because of the suicide comment. It will hopefully be a glorious moment for thorin charging into battle!


elf-lady
Rivendell

Jan 4 2014, 3:09pm

Post #3 of 26 (851 views)
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You beat me to it! [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah, fantastic interview. Loved Armitage's take on how chooses to meet his end. Thanks for posting!


Danielos
Rohan

Jan 4 2014, 3:11pm

Post #4 of 26 (884 views)
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Richard Armitage [In reply to] Can't Post

I like Richard Armitage. He has so much insightful things to say about his character. He really seems to take the story and understanding Thorin very seriously.
Really ballsy move by PJ to leave the entire huge battle until pick-ups.


Wilfred
Bree


Jan 4 2014, 3:23pm

Post #5 of 26 (912 views)
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What does he mean by: [In reply to] Can't Post

"Thranduil's the first elf that Tolkien wrote"?



Rowan Greene
Lorien


Jan 4 2014, 3:28pm

Post #6 of 26 (867 views)
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Correct me if I'm wrong... [In reply to] Can't Post

Isn't the Elven King (subsequently named Thranduil in later works) the first elf character Tolkien created? Or perhaps he means the first elf incorporated into an actual story. From what I understand, Tolkien created the languages first, right? Then he wrote The Hobbit?

Anyone?


In Reply To
"Thranduil's the first elf that Tolkien wrote"?




chris10112
Bree

Jan 4 2014, 3:29pm

Post #7 of 26 (825 views)
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In the book [In reply to] Can't Post

His death is basically a suicide anyway, it's just not explicitly said to be - he charges straight out of Erebor and into the furthest depths of the orc ranks, right up to Bolg and his bodyguard, pretty much by himself. I doubt he had much of a chance of getting out again.


(This post was edited by chris10112 on Jan 4 2014, 3:29pm)


Rowan Greene
Lorien


Jan 4 2014, 3:34pm

Post #8 of 26 (811 views)
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I'm just relieved... [In reply to] Can't Post

...because it sounds like his movie death will mirror (honor) his book death.
Wink


In Reply To
His death is basically a suicide anyway, it's just not explicitly said to be - he charges straight out of Erebor and into the furthest depths of the orc ranks, right up to Bolg and his bodyguard, pretty much by himself. I doubt he had much of a chance of getting out again.




dormouse
Half-elven


Jan 4 2014, 3:36pm

Post #9 of 26 (788 views)
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Thanks for posting that... [In reply to] Can't Post

Excellent interviews, all three, with lots of insight into how they see the characters. I'm fascinated by the way they describe the evolving nature of the films, and the way they are drawn in as actors to actually help create the role. That must be quite unusual in films. I think this from Richard Armitage is telling, and quite funny:

"That they never stopped writing the script, they never stopped working on it. Even when it’s all been shot and all the movies have been released, they’ll still be writing extra stuff, they’ll still continue to work on it and develop it. They’re probably still working on the first Hobbit film!
"


Another thing that strikes me again is their feeling about Peter Jackson - this comes up in so many of the interviews, and it's good to read. this from Lee Pace:

"I will say that Peter Jackson is one of the most creative people I have ever met in my life. He doesn’t stop at “good enough.”"


Wilfred
Bree


Jan 4 2014, 4:13pm

Post #10 of 26 (789 views)
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The First Elf [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Isn't the Elven King (subsequently named Thranduil in later works) the first elf character Tolkien created? Or perhaps he means the first elf incorporated into an actual story. From what I understand, Tolkien created the languages first, right? Then he wrote The Hobbit?


I don't think so: he wrote The Book of Lost Tales during the first world war, and developed that into The Silmarillion between 1926 and 1937. In a way, Thranduil was one of the last elves Tolkien created, and not even the first in The Hobbit (although I haven't read The History of the Hobbit so I'm not sure in what order the story's episodes were developed).

I wonder, though, if there's a gap in my knowledge that Lee Pace is referring to?



shadowdog
Rohan

Jan 4 2014, 4:42pm

Post #11 of 26 (708 views)
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I think [In reply to] Can't Post

That he is the first elf the rest of the world was introduced to. Even is Tolkien created earlier elves, we didn't meet them until years after The Hobbit was published.


entmaiden
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jan 4 2014, 4:43pm

Post #12 of 26 (666 views)
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Actually, Elrond would come first, [In reply to] Can't Post

if you think of The Hobbit as the first book Tolkien published. He had been working on what would become The Silmarillion since he was a teenager in 1916, but The Hobbit was his first published work set in Middle-earth.

But even so, we meet Elrond and the elves of Rivendell before we meet Thranduil. Elrond is technically half-Elven, but the other elves in Rivendell came before Thranduil in the story.

I don't know the order in which Tolkien wrote The Hobbit, so it's possible he wrote Thranduil first, and then Elrond.


Wilfred
Bree


Jan 4 2014, 4:53pm

Post #13 of 26 (677 views)
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OK - makes sense [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
That he is the first elf the rest of the world was introduced to. Even is Tolkien created earlier elves, we didn't meet them until years after The Hobbit was published.


So he didn't mean literally the first elf Tolkien wrote, but the first one Tolkien published (except for Elrond, perhaps). I wasn't sure if I'd missed something.




Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Jan 4 2014, 5:20pm

Post #14 of 26 (670 views)
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But, Elrond isn't an Elf [In reply to] Can't Post

He's Halfelven.

Technically, we meet the Elves in Rivendell, but they're a fairly generic group. I think he's probably correct that the Elven King is the first Elf introduced to the public with a 'speaking role' as it were.


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase





Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Jan 4 2014, 5:47pm

Post #15 of 26 (669 views)
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Good interviews, but I'm not sure why the reporter... [In reply to] Can't Post

...seemed to think LP had been in the LOTR movies. He even asked LP if the vibe on set was different than the previous movies and LP had to say "I don't know, I wasn't there." Was he getting Thranduil confused with Legolas or did he think Thranduil was in LOTR?Crazy


Wilfred
Bree


Jan 4 2014, 5:53pm

Post #16 of 26 (606 views)
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Elrond Hubbard [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
He's Halfelven.


Not in The Hobbit he's not. He's an "elf-lord".




Wilfred
Bree


Jan 4 2014, 6:16pm

Post #17 of 26 (576 views)
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I stand corrected [In reply to] Can't Post

Thought I'd better just double-check and the exact phrase used is "as fair in face as an elf-lord," so I mis-remembered it.

There are talking elves before they get to the Last Homely House, but Elrond isn't one of them. Blush




Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Jan 4 2014, 6:22pm

Post #18 of 26 (557 views)
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I beg to differ [In reply to] Can't Post

If you check out the chapter, "A Short Rest" where they meet Elrond, it describes him as (emphasis mine):


Quote
The master of the house was an elf-friend, one of those people whose fathers came into the strange stories before the beginning of History, the wars of the evil goblins and the elves and the first men of the North. In those days of our tale, there were still some people who had both elves and men of the North as ancestors, and Elrond the master of the house was their chief. He was as noble and fair of face as an elf-lord, as strong as a warrior, as wise as a wizard, and as venerable as a king of dwarves, and as kind as summer.



Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase





Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Jan 4 2014, 6:25pm

Post #19 of 26 (548 views)
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Easy to do! [In reply to] Can't Post

I had to go back and check it myself. Smile I figured that, since Tolkien already had a lot of the back-story written for the history that came before The Hobbit, he would already have fleshed out who Elrond was, as it seems from the passage I quoted below. Yet, I still had to check!


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase





Brethil
Half-elven


Jan 4 2014, 6:34pm

Post #20 of 26 (571 views)
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The naming of Elrond Half-elven had fortunate and unforseen significance [In reply to] Can't Post

As he writes in Letter # 257:
"The passage in Ch. iii relating him to the Half-elven of the mythology was a fortunate accident, due to the difficulty of constantly inventing good names for new characters. I gave him the name Elrond casually, but as this name came from the mythology (Elros and Elrond the two sons of Earendel) I made him half-elven. Only in The Lord was he identified with the son of Earendel, and so the great-grandson of Luthien and Beren, a great power and a Ringholder."

Have an idea relating to the world of JRR Tolkien that you would like to write about? If so, the Third TORn Amateur Symposium will be running in the Reading Room in March, 2014. We hope to see you there!





Kilidoescartwheels
Gondor

Jan 4 2014, 11:59pm

Post #21 of 26 (440 views)
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Thorin's death scene [In reply to] Can't Post

I mentioned once before that I thought his fight with Azog, and his nephews coming to his aid with Dwalin, was foreshadowing his death. And yeah, he's already demonstrated a crazy streak, willing to charge into a fight where he has little hope of winning. But someone argued with me that I shouldn't assume the nephews come to him, but that it's likely that he goes to THEIR aid. What does finally get him to leave the halls and go charging the goblins? Could it be Kili getting cut down? Do Kili and Fili end up fighting with the men of Laketown (or worse, with Tauriel)? And then there's that picture where Fili and Thorin are crouched behind a rock conferring - where does that happen? Could it be in Dale? Could they be scouting? I don't know, all I know for sure is I'm going to cry my eyes out when it finally happens.Frown


ShireHorse
Rohan

Jan 5 2014, 12:37am

Post #22 of 26 (403 views)
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I do think that, in the book, [In reply to] Can't Post

there is a similarity between Thorin's charge and that of Theoden at the Pelennor Fields. IIRC, both charge recklessly into a huge host of the enemy and this drives a wedge into the enemy forces but, in the end, leads to them being cut off and surrounded. They are then forced to make a kind of last stand of a 'circle the wagons' type. This is when Fili and Kili defend Thorin, not because he was wounded or fallen but because that's what you did when in a desperate plight: you surrounded and defended the leader, with your own bodies if necessary.

I've always been of the opinion, from the book, that Fili and Kili die first which puts Thorin into 'berserker' mode. This is what happens when Eomer thinks that his sister is dead in LotR: a 'mod' comes upon him (Anglo-Saxon for a fey mood) and he drives recklessly into the enemy with no fear of losing his own life.

Of course, this doesn't mean that this is how PJ has interpreted events.

We do know that Thorin has the opportunity to die with the words to Bilbo from the book on his lips which implies at least a quiet corner off the battlefield somewhere and AFTER Fili &Kili have died. This information (about his last words) was in a private letter which got into the public domain.


happydood
The Shire

Jan 5 2014, 3:15am

Post #23 of 26 (342 views)
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This just made me happy. [In reply to] Can't Post

If that last almost-touch between Tauriel and Kili was a could-have-been moment that will add resonance to them having to fight in The Battle Of Five Armies, I guarantee that any transgression folks think PJ has made with this storyline would be instantly forgiven. I'm fine with it anyway, since I feel like that last moment in DOS is an indicator it will never go beyond that. I'd love it if no matter what happens, he never really knows she was there, due to him clearly being feverish when he talks to her.


Cirashala
Grey Havens


Jan 5 2014, 6:24am

Post #24 of 26 (292 views)
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I think [In reply to] Can't Post

that was during the warg chase in AUJ (Thorin and Fili conversing behind a rock), but it was cut. That's definitely the same sort of vegetation and such around there (plus they are still in the clothing they were wearing when they left Bilbo's).



Elciryamo
Rivendell

Jan 5 2014, 6:32am

Post #25 of 26 (289 views)
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I agree with this idea from the book [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
there is a similarity between Thorin's charge and that of Theoden at the Pelennor Fields. IIRC, both charge recklessly into a huge host of the enemy and this drives a wedge into the enemy forces but, in the end, leads to them being cut off and surrounded. They are then forced to make a kind of last stand of a 'circle the wagons' type. This is when Fili and Kili defend Thorin, not because he was wounded or fallen but because that's what you did when in a desperate plight: you surrounded and defended the leader, with your own bodies if necessary.

I've always been of the opinion, from the book, that Fili and Kili die first which puts Thorin into 'berserker' mode. This is what happens when Eomer thinks that his sister is dead in LotR: a 'mod' comes upon him (Anglo-Saxon for a fey mood) and he drives recklessly into the enemy with no fear of losing his own life.

Of course, this doesn't mean that this is how PJ has interpreted events.

We do know that Thorin has the opportunity to die with the words to Bilbo from the book on his lips which implies at least a quiet corner off the battlefield somewhere and AFTER Fili &Kili have died. This information (about his last words) was in a private letter which got into the public domain.


But, as you say, there is PJ's interpretation. In the book, Eomer takes his men and sings no more in the battle. The movie offers a different view, since (from a modern view) to leave dead or dying kin is a little strange.

Given the reaction of Thorin in both films so far, I think it is safe to say that his reaction will be quite explosive, if you will. As with Dwalin and whoever else is nearby. It will not go well for any Orcs nearby and I would even pity Sauron to face down that wrath.

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