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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Fan Art:
laments of the broken hearted
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Cirashala
Tol Eressea


Jan 4 2014, 4:40am

Post #1 of 28 (1608 views)
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laments of the broken hearted Can't Post

So, I just want to say that I feel Dis is a much forgotten yet pivotal character in Tolkien's works, and has to be one of the strongest characters in Middle-earth.

She lost everything. Her ENTIRE family wiped out. So with much tears and ado, I wrote a one shot fan fiction story about it.

I hope this will help dispel some of the naysayers who say that all fan fiction is horrible and poorly written garbage. Admittedly some are indeed that horrible, however I have read many that have been extremely well written and engaging, with some of the best and most unique takes on Middle-earth and excellent understanding of Tolkien's work that I have seen yet, because part of me feels like posting another fan fiction I wrote on here at the request of someone on here asking to see my work will cause me to be cyber-lynched Unsure

Anyways, here it is:

https://www.fanfiction.net/...f-the-Broken-Hearted

May TABA rip our hearts out (even if we don't want it to) because the sheer loss this strong woman endured while still able to go on living (as Tolkien never gave a date of death for her, only a birth date, hinting that she must have still been alive at the end of LOTR) was astounding.

Here's to Dis Smile



dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jan 4 2014, 4:55am

Post #2 of 28 (987 views)
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*reaches for tissues* [In reply to] Can't Post

Seriously...that is a wonderful story, Cirashala.

And heart-rendering.

Thank you for sharing it here.

(TABA is going to leave us all in such a puddle...)


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"I desired dragons with a profound desire"






Cirashala
Tol Eressea


Jan 4 2014, 5:03am

Post #3 of 28 (977 views)
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you're welcome [In reply to] Can't Post

It was for an angst/hurt/comfort prompt by another fan fic author. I didn't win her contest sadly, but the one that did was very deserving of it and put mine to shame (and me to major tears) for sure.

I am worried that my other fic will unleash that cyber-lynching I mentioned above, as many people on here seem to a) hate fan fiction with a passion, and b) despise deviations to the general plot of the story-even if it makes sense within the fic. I have gotten quite a few positive reviews of it by readers (390, in fact) and only one flame since it was published pn ff 5 months ago, as well as a lot of favorites and follows.

But I am worried that it's reception on TORn won't be so pleasant....even though Daniel asked if I would post it on here (not having read it yet that I know of, though I did send him the link).



Kim
Valinor


Jan 4 2014, 6:02am

Post #4 of 28 (987 views)
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Darn it [In reply to] Can't Post

You've already got me crying and the year has barely started. How am I going to make it to December at this rate? Unsure


Thank you for sharing this. I would love to read your other story as well if you choose to share it here.


Cirashala
Tol Eressea


Jan 4 2014, 6:13am

Post #5 of 28 (992 views)
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it isn't a one shot [In reply to] Can't Post

and it's not finished (far from it), but if you would like to take a gander at it, here it is:

https://www.fanfiction.net/...Look-Beyond-the-Mask

I will warn you- it isn't as closely tied to canon as the other one (it mixes stuff from all the sources-books, movies and movie tie-in books that I have, appendices, actor interviews providing characters' backstories and character traits, my middle-earth research, etc, along with some originality on my part), which is why I was worried about cyber-lynching....

If you are an adaptist and open to change (as long as it's not ridiculous or out of character) then you might like it, but if you are a hobbit purist you may not.

But I do hope you enjoy it Smile



Kim
Valinor


Jan 4 2014, 6:39am

Post #6 of 28 (971 views)
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Wow [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for sharing, I've bookmarked it so I can take it a chapter or two at a time.


And no worries, am not a purist in any way, shape or form. Smile


Cirashala
Tol Eressea


Jan 4 2014, 6:52am

Post #7 of 28 (968 views)
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you're welcome [In reply to] Can't Post

Smile

If you would be willing to review it (as a fellow TORnsib) and let me know what you think, I would greatly appreciate it (you can review as a guest on FF, though please write your TORn screen name so I know it's you).

I like it when I get constructive feedback, especially from someone who is familiar with Tolkien and his works as well as the movies, as I have found that they can not only offer great insights based on Tolkien, but can recognize whether or not a story is sticking to the spirit of Tolkien and recognizable as Middle-earth (and not just cosplaying modern people in ME).

Not everyone who writes hobbit fan fiction understands Middle-earth, and it's those types of writers that I feel have given fan fiction a bad name Crazy. I read one where apparently Fangorn is a 15 minute walk from Meduseld, and Erebor was right across the river and allowed for two lovers to see each other in one afternoon a month and still only be a short walk away (one an abused yet married woman and Kili- which was also very anti-Tolkien as no dwarf with any semblance of honor would have an affair with a married woman and also allow the abuse to continue though they don't like it). Needless to say, the summary was very deceiving, and not only did I very respectfully suggest that the writer look at a map of Middle-earth as Erebor is at least 2,000 miles away from Edoras (and Fangorn at least 2 days' ride from Meduseld), but that she research just how fiercely dwarves protect womenfolk, and also how Tolkien was avidly against such things as affairs.

But for every 10 bad fan fics, there is 1 or 2 that are gems to behold Smile I just hope my story can pass that test Unsure



Bard'sBlackArrow
Lorien


Jan 9 2014, 7:48pm

Post #8 of 28 (943 views)
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Cirashala - very good, very sad [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
So, I just want to say that I feel Dis is a much forgotten yet pivotal character in Tolkien's works, and has to be one of the strongest characters in Middle-earth.

She lost everything. Her ENTIRE family wiped out. So with much tears and ado, I wrote a one shot fan fiction story about it.

I hope this will help dispel some of the naysayers who say that all fan fiction is horrible and poorly written garbage. Admittedly some are indeed that horrible, however I have read many that have been extremely well written and engaging, with some of the best and most unique takes on Middle-earth and excellent understanding of Tolkien's work that I have seen yet, because part of me feels like posting another fan fiction I wrote on here at the request of someone on here asking to see my work will cause me to be cyber-lynched Unsure

Anyways, here it is:

https://www.fanfiction.net/...f-the-Broken-Hearted

May TABA rip our hearts out (even if we don't want it to) because the sheer loss this strong woman endured while still able to go on living (as Tolkien never gave a date of death for her, only a birth date, hinting that she must have still been alive at the end of LOTR) was astounding.

Here's to Dis Smile



Tugging at the blackened heart strings here. So sad but very, very good.

I wouldn't put too much worry into what other Tolkien fans think of your fan fiction. You're writing it out of your love for this universe, and to me, that is always a good sign. And it shows in this lovely story.

I do not read much fan fiction because I am not into the whole slash/Mary Sue business. If the fan can capture the universe and either flesh out existing characters, and/or create characters who inhibit that world (and perhaps interact with the established characters etc.), that's all I care about. I want to remember what I love about that universe. Good fan fic can do that.

I enjoy Middle Earth immensely, but if I ever wrote fan fic, my locale would be utterly limited since I can't remember family trees, names, places etc.

So keep on doing what you do... it's excellent.

Elves?!? I don't need no stinkin' Elves. :D


Cirashala
Tol Eressea


Jan 9 2014, 8:31pm

Post #9 of 28 (938 views)
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thank you :) [In reply to] Can't Post

It's just difficult when so many people knock fan fiction on here, is all. It's as though they truly believe that every story has bad mary sues (believe it or not, it is possible to write a good sue, but very difficult to do and pretty rare to find) and is disgracing the work of Tolkien....

I did another one (posted above) that had a girl-in-middle-earth, and after 78 chapters I was curious and did a reader poll asking if she was a sue (because I wanted to see if I could meet the challenge of writing a good one, or at the very least base her off a real person warts and all, so to speak) and every single reply I got was that she wasn't a sue. In fact, one reader had completely forgotten that she wasn't from ME in the first place.

I do research for my fics- referencing the Sil, LOTR, TH, the appendices, Tolkien's letters, Unfinished tales, the movies, the actor interviews, the vlogs and behind the scenes, etc. Plus I use some resources like the encyclopedia of Arda online (excellent reference source) and the dwarrow scholar's blog for Khuzdul, and an excellent age calculation tool for dwarves based on Tolkien's coming of age and average lifespan (did the calculation with some common characters, like Dain when he slew Azog, and found that calculator put him at about 16 years old, which made perfect sense, and Dwalin as being about 93 or so when he died-all in human ages, which worked). I also have Karen Fonstad's Atlas of Middle-earth, which has helped greatly in gauging distances for the quest, and that plus the movie location shots (and google's 3D maps of NZ) have helped with weather. I even asked Daniellb (who is studying climatology, from what I could tell) about a weather question, and I read DwellerinDale's physics blogs and got some ideas for how to have characters fall into water without the impact being similar to concrete.

So those resources have helped immensely to make my long currently in progress fic (the one I posted in a reply to someone else above- To Look Beyond the Mask) believable and realistic.

That could help you with that stuff you don't remember, should you be interested in writing one someday. I have a lot of this knowledge in my head already, having read all of the above (or at least most of it- TH came out when I got to Osgiliath in LOTR, and it stole my attention Tongue) But I have read the rest, and the Sil and TH several times. I gleaned everything I could about the company of dwarves, and dwarf customs in general, so that they were believable as ME dwarves (but kept the awesome visuals and the characterization presented in the movie, as I am a very visual and imaginative person and having faces to names helped greatly). Tolkien was a bit weak when characterizing most of the dwarves....

Anyway, that's what I do. Yes, my other fic is a GiME sort, but I have taken great pains to make it a good one (I know 99% of the ones out there suck). And I have had over 300 reviews, one flame, over a 100 favorites and almost 200 followers in the 5 months since I began it, and several readers who usually avoid this genre like the plague that love it.

So maybe.... it worked.



arithmancer
Grey Havens


Jan 9 2014, 11:40pm

Post #10 of 28 (926 views)
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If you love to write these stories... [In reply to] Can't Post

...don't worry about the negative posts about fanfic. People post stuff like that in all fandoms. I suspect a lot have never read any, unless they enjoy finding particularly bad efforts by beginning/young writers, which some people find amusing for reasons I have never understood.

You are clearly bringing enjoyment to your following at FF, after all!

Also, in my opinion not every OFC (original female character) is a Sue, not even all those who wind up in relationships with canon characters. The term more properly describes over the top, thinly disguised versions of the author which inhibit suspension of disbelief...



Cirashala
Tol Eressea


Jan 10 2014, 1:06am

Post #11 of 28 (916 views)
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well, maybe [In reply to] Can't Post

then my second story doesn't have a sue in it.

I asked on a reader poll last chapter out of curiosity, and out of 10 people who responded to it, all 10 believe that she isn't (and some of them are VERY critical about MS's as well-and refuse to read MS stories).

Thanks for the vote of confidence :) I won't be so shy to post FF here next time Smile

I may even risk posting my long one in it's own thread, as opposed to just a link in someone else's, and let others make their decisions....



Bard'sBlackArrow
Lorien


Jan 10 2014, 3:36am

Post #12 of 28 (920 views)
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I understand and thanks for the many resources... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
It's just difficult when so many people knock fan fiction on here, is all. It's as though they truly believe that every story has bad mary sues (believe it or not, it is possible to write a good sue, but very difficult to do and pretty rare to find) and is disgracing the work of Tolkien....

I did another one (posted above) that had a girl-in-middle-earth, and after 78 chapters I was curious and did a reader poll asking if she was a sue (because I wanted to see if I could meet the challenge of writing a good one, or at the very least base her off a real person warts and all, so to speak) and every single reply I got was that she wasn't a sue. In fact, one reader had completely forgotten that she wasn't from ME in the first place.

I do research for my fics- referencing the Sil, LOTR, TH, the appendices, Tolkien's letters, Unfinished tales, the movies, the actor interviews, the vlogs and behind the scenes, etc. Plus I use some resources like the encyclopedia of Arda online (excellent reference source) and the dwarrow scholar's blog for Khuzdul, and an excellent age calculation tool for dwarves based on Tolkien's coming of age and average lifespan (did the calculation with some common characters, like Dain when he slew Azog, and found that calculator put him at about 16 years old, which made perfect sense, and Dwalin as being about 93 or so when he died-all in human ages, which worked). I also have Karen Fonstad's Atlas of Middle-earth, which has helped greatly in gauging distances for the quest, and that plus the movie location shots (and google's 3D maps of NZ) have helped with weather. I even asked Daniellb (who is studying climatology, from what I could tell) about a weather question, and I read DwellerinDale's physics blogs and got some ideas for how to have characters fall into water without the impact being similar to concrete.

So those resources have helped immensely to make my long currently in progress fic (the one I posted in a reply to someone else above- To Look Beyond the Mask) believable and realistic.

That could help you with that stuff you don't remember, should you be interested in writing one someday. I have a lot of this knowledge in my head already, having read all of the above (or at least most of it- TH came out when I got to Osgiliath in LOTR, and it stole my attention Tongue) But I have read the rest, and the Sil and TH several times. I gleaned everything I could about the company of dwarves, and dwarf customs in general, so that they were believable as ME dwarves (but kept the awesome visuals and the characterization presented in the movie, as I am a very visual and imaginative person and having faces to names helped greatly). Tolkien was a bit weak when characterizing most of the dwarves....

Anyway, that's what I do. Yes, my other fic is a GiME sort, but I have taken great pains to make it a good one (I know 99% of the ones out there suck). And I have had over 300 reviews, one flame, over a 100 favorites and almost 200 followers in the 5 months since I began it, and several readers who usually avoid this genre like the plague that love it.

So maybe.... it worked.


:) Right on!

I know when I wrote fan tics for another fandom (at the time it was hated) I was ostracized like crazy, yet I forged ahead. As you and others have said here folks can be genuinely cruel when it comes to fan fic. If I see a story that sounds good, I skim the description and if it's Slash, Mary Sue or alters canon enough for me to bristle, I run for the hills. I do not have the patience to wallow through.

You have a deep understanding and love for Tolkien and the dwarves (yay!) so this comes through in your posts here, your fan fic etc. It's great.

Thanks for listing all those resources. I knew about many of them, but it's nice to see a comprehensive list from someone immersing themselves into that world.
I find myself utterly fascinated with Girion and Bard after seeing DoS (in addition loving those dwarves and Bilbo), so who knows? Something might come of that.

As I said keep on trucking and please do post the results here.

Elves?!? I don't need no stinkin' Elves. :D


Cirashala
Tol Eressea


Jan 10 2014, 4:14am

Post #13 of 28 (932 views)
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there are some deviations from canon in my big story [In reply to] Can't Post

But that is because I understand that if something changes, then it can affect changes in a chain reaction. For instance, if another person comes into the plot that wasn't there before, their presence is going to change things simply by virtue that another person is factoring into things. It makes for creativity while still being believable as Middle-earth. It doesn't mean that I don't understand the story and it doesn't mean that I don't understand Tolkien's world. But it only makes sense that if there is another person factoring in, then that in and of itself will change future events. I explore this phenomena in detail, as my added person knows that certain things have to happen just so because even the QoE affects the War later on. And it's causing anxiety and stress on the OC, because she wants to make sure that her presence changes things as minimally as possible (which is why she doesn't tell the others that she's from another world-she keeps it a secret). But then things come to pass and she has to get to a point where her presence is changing things, and she needs to just accept it and do what's right, rather than what's in the books, and hope for the best (and the inherent luck that Tolkien wrote the characters in his stories experienced). One act, no matter how minor, can change things. Just like how Galadriel said- Even the smallest person can change the course of the future. And that isn't just the battle of 5 armies- that's the entire quest from the point that she becomes involved. And it wasn't her decision to get involved in the first place.

I am glad you think so. I wanted it to be Tolkien's Middle-earth, not some kind of facsimile. But at the same time I asked, "What if?" What if this happened, then how would it have affected future events? That's the beauty of the depth of Tolkien's world- it's so massively complex that the possibilities are (almost) endless. One could, if one wished, create an entire story not involving canon characters at all within Middle-earth if they wanted, and still end up writing an epic, because his world is so deep.

:) I swear I drive my husband crazy with my Tolkien/movie obsession sometimes (He's another poster on here, but I started posting first) Tongue

We shall see Wink Creativity knows no bounds sometimes...

Results? Results of what?




Bard'sBlackArrow
Lorien


Jan 10 2014, 1:54pm

Post #14 of 28 (913 views)
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Completely fair [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
But that is because I understand that if something changes, then it can affect changes in a chain reaction. For instance, if another person comes into the plot that wasn't there before, their presence is going to change things simply by virtue that another person is factoring into things. It makes for creativity while still being believable as Middle-earth. It doesn't mean that I don't understand the story and it doesn't mean that I don't understand Tolkien's world. But it only makes sense that if there is another person factoring in, then that in and of itself will change future events. I explore this phenomena in detail, as my added person knows that certain things have to happen just so because even the QoE affects the War later on. And it's causing anxiety and stress on the OC, because she wants to make sure that her presence changes things as minimally as possible (which is why she doesn't tell the others that she's from another world-she keeps it a secret). But then things come to pass and she has to get to a point where her presence is changing things, and she needs to just accept it and do what's right, rather than what's in the books, and hope for the best (and the inherent luck that Tolkien wrote the characters in his stories experienced). One act, no matter how minor, can change things. Just like how Galadriel said- Even the smallest person can change the course of the future. And that isn't just the battle of 5 armies- that's the entire quest from the point that she becomes involved. And it wasn't her decision to get involved in the first place.

I am glad you think so. I wanted it to be Tolkien's Middle-earth, not some kind of facsimile. But at the same time I asked, "What if?" What if this happened, then how would it have affected future events? That's the beauty of the depth of Tolkien's world- it's so massively complex that the possibilities are (almost) endless. One could, if one wished, create an entire story not involving canon characters at all within Middle-earth if they wanted, and still end up writing an epic, because his world is so deep.

:) I swear I drive my husband crazy with my Tolkien/movie obsession sometimes (He's another poster on here, but I started posting first) Tongue

We shall see Wink Creativity knows no bounds sometimes...

Results? Results of what?



Results meaning new stories, of course. Smile

And I am not so against the change of canon to see when an author etc. does something for the greater good of the story and character's journies. I like many of the additions to the Hobbit films and if I can tell someone really knows the universe (and you and so many others run circles around me in the Tolkien department), I will happily get lost in it.

Yes, Tolkien's world is very, very complex and I applaud those fans who know so many intricate details. I see it everywhere from the posts here, to fan fic, fan sites and costuming, it's just amazing. Once I get some real life things straight, I would like to delve more into it.

Yes, Bilbo is proof that one character doing one act can make a difference in the tide against evil.

That is so wonderful you can share this with your hubby.

At any rate, you've got a supporter of your fic in me. I think a little differently when it comes to the look of dwarves (and have an allergy to 99.9% of the elves), but overall, I appreciate what you bring to this fandom in your creativity and your knowledge.

Elves?!? I don't need no stinkin' Elves. :D


Cirashala
Tol Eressea


Jan 10 2014, 7:01pm

Post #15 of 28 (904 views)
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thanks :) [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, here is a link to my big one, if you are interested:

https://www.fanfiction.net/...Look-Beyond-the-Mask

Well, then I hope that you can get lost in mine then Smile

Real life can suck for sure... Unsure

I have often wondered if he got on here just so I would stop reading every interesting post I found to him Tongue lol...

It is perfectly ok to agree to disagree on some things. It is sad that not all posters feel that way. I know that some people disagree with me on some things (like the dwarves' appearance, for example) but that doesn't make the discussions any less engaging.




Fili-ingFine
The Shire

Jan 13 2014, 5:42pm

Post #16 of 28 (884 views)
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She was a hardened reader of fan fiction. She would not cry. [In reply to] Can't Post

But she did. *sniffle*
Thanks for sharing your story, Cirashala! Dis's tragic life has always tugged at my heartstrings. Unsure


Cirashala
Tol Eressea


Jan 13 2014, 5:46pm

Post #17 of 28 (870 views)
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you're welcome [In reply to] Can't Post

It has tugged at mine as well- she is probably the most tragic story in all of Middle-earth, and yet Tolkien never gave a date of death for her (only birth) so she must have been alive long after everyone else in her family died. I cannot imagine the tragedy she suffered Unsure



annathepiper
Registered User


Jan 13 2014, 6:16pm

Post #18 of 28 (875 views)
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Loved the story, and hi, I'm new! [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi all!

I'm new to the forums, and joined last night specifically so I'd be able to drop a comment here and say to Cirashala that I read the Dis story. Goodness, that was lovely. :)

I've been ardently following the new Hobbit movies, and reminding myself of the backstory on Thorin and Kili and Fili, and seeing Dis get some fanfic love is beautiful.

Cheers all and hope to be reading more in these parts,
Angela

--
Angela Highland * Angela Korra'ti * angelahighland.com

(This post was edited by annathepiper on Jan 13 2014, 6:19pm)


Fili-ingFine
The Shire

Jan 13 2014, 6:44pm

Post #19 of 28 (868 views)
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Mae Govannen, annathepiper! [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm relatively new here too and mainly stick to Fan Art, but I'm sure you're welcome on all boards! Smile


Cirashala
Tol Eressea


Jan 14 2014, 3:52am

Post #20 of 28 (865 views)
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mae govannen! [In reply to] Can't Post

I feel honored that you felt like you should join specifically to comment on my story Smile

Thank you Smile

This website is a wonderful resource for TH movies, as well as pretty much anything Tolkien Wink

You should also check out DarkJackal's website, thorinoakenshield.net, because it has some fantastic articles about Thorin, Fili, and Kili's story, as well as articles on other things (and a lot of screencaps, especially of the vlogs and such). It's a good resource too.

Again, mae govannen! I hope you enjoy your time as a TORnsib Cool



annathepiper
Registered User


Jan 14 2014, 6:09am

Post #21 of 28 (854 views)
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Yay! More things to read! [In reply to] Can't Post

Cirashala, thank you very much!

I've actually seen thorinoakenshield.net mentioned--I've been following the main articles on TORN for some time, and I believe I saw that site mentioned at some point. :) But I'll look forward to checking out the site in depth!

I saw that you linked to other work of yours on this thread and I'll look forward to checking that out too.

Angela

Angela Highland * Angela Korra'ti * angelahighland.com


annathepiper
Registered User


Jan 14 2014, 6:11am

Post #22 of 28 (843 views)
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One newbie to another [In reply to] Can't Post

Fili-ingFine, I love your username! And thank you, glad to meet you!

I'll be spending some time reading a BUNCH of threads around here before I start commenting in depth, I think. A great deal to absorb. Rather like Tolkien in general. :)

Angela

Angela Highland * Angela Korra'ti * angelahighland.com


Cirashala
Tol Eressea


Jan 14 2014, 6:17am

Post #23 of 28 (850 views)
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that one is still a work in progress [In reply to] Can't Post

and likely will be for a long time...

If you do check it out, could you post a review at the bottom of the last chapter letting me know what you think? You can do it as a guest, and if you put your TORn username as the guest reviewer name on there, I will know it's from you Smile

It's nearly 250,000 words long so far, so that's why Wink

When Part 1 is fully finished, I will post it on TORn in it's own thread, so people can read through the whole first part and end with a yet to come but more or less decent end (kind of like AUJ, though this one will end later than the movie did) so no one on here is left with major cliffhangers- or at least any more of a cliffhanger than the ME movies usually have (DOS notwithstanding). But if you finish before then, then reviewing might make it easier to me to know what you think, since that thread won't be up for a bit.

Happy reading! Cool



annathepiper
Registered User


Jan 14 2014, 6:20am

Post #24 of 28 (841 views)
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I'll definitely read... [In reply to] Can't Post

But it may take me a while. I've got writing of my own going on. ;) And wow, 250,000 words! Way to go!

I'll review/comment as I can, though!

Angela

Angela Highland * Angela Korra'ti * angelahighland.com


Cirashala
Tol Eressea


Jan 14 2014, 6:24am

Post #25 of 28 (848 views)
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it is a lot of words [In reply to] Can't Post

but the later chapters have upped the word count due to responses to guest reviews (I reply to every review, and since I cannot pm the guest reviewers their responses go at the bottom of the next chapter, which increases that chapter's word count).

So I would say actual story probably has closer to 240,000 or so...but yes, I prefer books I can sink my teeth into, and so the stories I write (except for one-shots) tend to be lengthy as a rule.

Why do you think I like LOTR Wink


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