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Intergalactic Lawman
Rohan
Jan 1 2014, 1:10am
Post #1 of 16
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Would Tauriel be a suspect?
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When the dwarves escape from the Mirkwood elves, do you think that Legolas, the king or anyone else suspects Tauriel as the one who let them go?
No one knows about Bilbo so what other conclusion could they come to...especially given her actions later in the film.
Thoughts?
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Cirashala
Valinor
Jan 1 2014, 1:31am
Post #2 of 16
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that could be very interesting
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to see what happens when she comes face to face with Thranduil again. Of course, we still have the keeper of the keys passed out drunk on the table with an empty wine container next to him, so if anything she could be considered a co-conspirator. Especially with how she ran off afterwards.
But she could also be construed as innocent if she was seen in the upper halls before the alarm was raised, since she was obviously not in the dungeons at the time, and the guards that discovered them gone had to have reported to her that they were missing.
This would be a very interesting take on things, and I almost hope that PJ&co would consider the conspirator angle when Thranduil next sees her. It could be that Legolas may not have reported the starlight conversation he overheard to his father, but then again if he was pissed off enough about it he could have. I suppose it depends on whether he blamed Tauriel or Kili more for that conversation, because he could have wanted to avoid getting her in trouble (like he did when he disobeyed orders to go after her to bring her back).
Though if Legolas were not crushing on her I have no doubt he would have either put a stop to the starlight conversation immediately or reported her to his father for fraternizing with the prisoners, because that would be very unbecoming her position as captain of the guard, and I can imagine the consequence would be pretty severe (unless she somehow managed to convince the king that she was interrogating for information via conversation, which, given the topic, was fairly unlikely).
I know there's a big difference between following orders and doing what's right, but one could conceivably question her commitment to her position after that conversation, and then again with her actions in disobeying her king. Captains of the guard are typically chosen because of proven loyalty and dedication to the crown. They are free to question some perspective at times (in fact, that quality is what makes a good captain, since they can sometimes see things the king does not), but when it comes right down to it a king will not appoint someone to such a high position if there was a chance they disagreed completely with the king on such a paramount issue as the defense of his realm when hostile forces are frequently entering the kingdom, and especially after a very direct threat of war.
Her responsibility to protect her people against a coming war was far more important than Kili's life (and I like Kili as a character, in fact he's my favorite character, so that's not a reflection on that), unless she was able to relegate her responsibility to another person prior to leaving her post, which I doubt she had the time to do.
Helping Kili was right, especially considering that he was still within their borders when he got injured, and thus his injury was her responsibility. However, the elves were shooting at the dwarves as well as the orcs during the escape, so for a prisoner to sustain injury in an escape attempt, and the for the guard responsible for said prisoners to abandon her post to heal said prisoner, would bring serious question to that person's loyalty.
Coming from a military family, I would probably begin court martial proceedings (or the middle-earth equivalent of them) given her actions. I honestly would have never, despite liking the character, placed her in such a high position to begin with-not from a military standpoint.
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Thyia
Bree
Jan 1 2014, 2:08am
Post #3 of 16
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Interesting thought. I wondered if any of the elves even saw Bilbo in the water during the barrel chase. With the elves keen eyesight, it's possible that a hobbit might be seen amongst the dwarves, though.
I don't think that Legolas would have gone into Laketown with her if he believed that she could have let the dwarves go, however. And I think that Thranduil trusts her as well.
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Hamfast Gamgee
Tol Eressea
Jan 1 2014, 2:25am
Post #4 of 16
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If any of the Elves did see Bilbo
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They wouldn't have recognized him as a Hobbit.
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Leaf of Mirkwood
Bree
Jan 1 2014, 2:35am
Post #5 of 16
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When she next sees Thranduil, she is "gonna have a lotta esplainin to do!!" 
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ghost_matt
Rivendell
Jan 1 2014, 2:42am
Post #6 of 16
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she would be the one to help them escape, with the added love story and all. The elves were passed out drunk in the book, but in the ROTK EE when Legolas and Gimli had the drinking game, Legolas was barely affected. So I always assumed they had to do something else now.
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Faleel
Rohan
Jan 1 2014, 2:49am
Post #7 of 16
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it is down to a difference in wine?
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Cirashala
Valinor
Jan 1 2014, 2:49am
Post #8 of 16
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they had Dorwinion wine, which was said to be incredibly potent. And it must be a very potent wine to make an elf drowsy.
In ROTK, Legolas and Gimli are drinking what appears to be ale or mead or some sort of beer, which likely had a far lower alcohol content than the Dorwinion wine. The Rohirrim weren't likely renown as being premiere alcohol makers
Even Merry and Pippin's drinking song indicated that The Green Dragon's brew was better than Rohan's 
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Eruvandi
Tol Eressea
Jan 1 2014, 4:48am
Post #9 of 16
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...in seeing what happens when Tauriel (and for that matter Legolas) comes face-to-face with Thranduil again. Will there be serious consequences for her actions or will Thranduil have changed his opinions enough by that time that she gets away with it? Possibly a combination of both where she's going to get chewed out but then something happens to stop it and change Thranduil's mind? Or maybe Thranduil will even be conflicted and be unsure about what he should do because he has a soft spot for her? *sigh* Why does TABA have to be a whole year away?
Anyway, you really bring a unique and highly relevant perspective to the situation with your background of coming from a military family. I agree that Tauriel, given her habit of having strong opinions that frequently clash with the king's opinions, should not have the position of Captain of the Guard. Yet, I think we have some explanation for why she was given the position anyway.
For one thing, as Lee Pace himself said, Tauriel is very strong, a deadly warrior, and fearless, therefore Thranduil values her. We also learned from Evangeline Lilly, during the DOS live streaming event where we got Vlog 12 and the final trailer, that an untold part of Tauriel's backstory is that she is an orphan who's parents were killed by orcs. Apparently, Thranduil pitied her and saw great potential and talent in her so he took her under his wing and, as Legolas states in the movie, protected her for 600 years. So, with those factors in mind, I can see how she managed to work her way up to Captain of the Guard despite her opinions.
Videos with the quotes I referenced:
LP: http://www.comingsoon.it/...deo/?key=49245-14024
EL: http://insidemovies.ew.com/...iel-is-batman-video/
Leggy: http://www.dailymotion.com/...d-tauriel_shortfilms
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patrickk
Rohan
Jan 1 2014, 5:39am
Post #10 of 16
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...many famous military commanders who have been opinionated: as I said elsewere Montgomery was one, and he was sidelined basically from WW1 to WW2. A good commander should be able to say their piece. I suspect there are lots of arguments among officers on the battle field and only occasionally do they make the papers (e.g Afghanistan). Tauriel got the gig on merit, and a good king should be able to take robust advice
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Cirashala
Valinor
Jan 1 2014, 5:57am
Post #11 of 16
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a commander with an opinion is one thing
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a commander who not only outright goes awol (absent without leave) but abandons their post immediately after a declaration of war to go after prisoners who escaped out of her dungeons after her king explicitly orders his borders closed and healing one of said prisoners who got injured in the escape attempt is another thing entirely. And abandoning her prince while he was fighting several enemy orcs and causing him to get injured as a result (yeah, I know it's a mere nosebleed and probably several bruises, but he could have been killed) to save an escaped prisoner's life could be considered outright treason.
I will go on the record as saying that I actually quite liked Tauriel's inclusion, and Kili is my favorite character in both book and movie and was long before I knew the hobbit was going to be made into a movie, so this stems purely from a military perspective and not a grudge against either character.
If she wished to go heal Kili and fight the orcs and fight for the good of all Middle-earth (which, while not ethical given her position, was the right thing to do) then she should have scrawled a quick resignation of her position as captain of the guard and military conscription and handed it off to next of command before leaving. She still disobeyed orders to not leave the kingdom, but it's not outright treason by abandoning your military post. And if she wasn't bound to the kingdom's armed forces after doing so, it's her choice whether to leave or not-she's an adult. However she is likely giving up her "citizenship" as it were by that action, and may not be granted it again should she ever choose to return.
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patrickk
Rohan
Jan 1 2014, 7:08am
Post #12 of 16
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I am sure there will be consequences
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...and it may include banishment, and this has happened in history as well. Stalin did it with Zhukov banished him before the war, redeemed him to win the war, and then banished him again after the war. The Brits sort of did that with Montgomery and the Americans wih Patton.
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Thyia
Bree
Jan 1 2014, 7:29am
Post #13 of 16
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I'm sure she left before Thranduil made his grand declaration about "close the gates... No one enters this kingdom and no one leaves it" etc. By the time Thranduil so expertly sets the orc "free", she could have been long gone. There is no reason to expect that she wasn't allowed to freely leave the halls up until he makes the statement. She's already long gone with her bow and blade.
Yes, when Legolas catches up with her and she talks him into going to Laketown with her, that's definitely a problem. Won't argue with anyone over that point. And yes, she abandons her prince after he orders her to follow him etc. But when she first leaves Mirkwood, there is nothing pointing to any fact that she isn't allowed to leave the grounds of her own accord. If she's the Captain of the Guard, that has to allow for some kind of level of autonomy.
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dormouse
Half-elven
Jan 1 2014, 9:41am
Post #15 of 16
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...because the escape was discovered so quickly and the drunken elves were there at the time, for all to see. And she did go back, didn't she, after the escape? I may be remembering it wrong, but I thought she and Legolas took the captive orc back, and it was only after the King dismissed her from the interrogation that she set out for Laketown. Then the King killed the orc and Legolas went in search of her. The dwarves escape didn't seem to be an issue while they were with the King.
She was still defying the King by leaving (as, indeed, was Legolas). But an awful lot is going to happen before either of them sees Thranduil again, and I think that makes the meeting too difficult to predict.
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Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor
Jan 1 2014, 8:26pm
Post #16 of 16
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When the dwarves escape from the Mirkwood elves, do you think that Legolas, the king or anyone else suspects Tauriel as the one who let them go?
No one knows about Bilbo so what other conclusion could they come to...especially given her actions later in the film.
Thoughts?
Because Tauriel was the one who discovered they were missing, and she called out the guards and went in hot pursuit. Legolas didn't ask her about it either, when he caught up with her. I don't think he would have gone with her if he thought she let the dwarves go. Sorry to throw water on your idea, it's understandable but I don't think anyone will suspect her. OTOH, the drunken guards might be in some trouble - Thranduil may assume one of the doors wasn't locked properly, and that's all it would take.
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