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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Since Kili's fate is known...
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jtarkey
Rohan


Dec 27 2013, 3:02am

Post #26 of 50 (347 views)
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Films don't have to come from france with a low budget to do something different [In reply to] Can't Post

The most successful films are usually ones that do something new or unusual, regardless of their budget.

"You're love of the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your mind"

^^^ That unnecessary apostrophe and "e" is due to the leaf itself. And this part of the signature was documented quite some time after the effect had worn off.


tarasaurus
Rohan


Dec 27 2013, 3:09am

Post #27 of 50 (348 views)
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Same here! [In reply to] Can't Post

I am suspecting she will possibly go to the west because she will fight in BO5A and do what she wanted to do and be fulfilled doing it. Also, maybe Thranduil forever banishes her from his kingdom even still for disobeying him? So she wouldn't really have anywhere to go. And this could also play into Legolas going to the council of Elrond, because he knew Tauriel would have wanted to play a role in fighting against evil (I mean if he needs an added reason to go besides what is already known. I'm sure they won't even have to explain that bit at all anyway).


patrickk
Rohan

Dec 27 2013, 3:30am

Post #28 of 50 (319 views)
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I am not sure... [In reply to] Can't Post

..I can think of any with a $600m budget. Now Gravity with a $100m budget followed 2001 A Space Odyssey in many respects but it is close to 'doing something different' as you put it, but if you look at it you can see it carefully plays the four quadrant demographics very well, as well. Young men not so much but not enough to alienate them, and geeky enough to put keep them on board, and even to the point of of having country music ugghh!!! nearly alienated this old codger!!!


7.62 mm FMJ
Bree


Dec 27 2013, 5:16am

Post #29 of 50 (302 views)
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Not necessarily [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't think killing off a female character will necessarily alienate many people if it's done well.


patrickk
Rohan

Dec 27 2013, 5:24am

Post #30 of 50 (294 views)
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That's the key... [In reply to] Can't Post

...as you say don't alienate the demographics and do it well. They may well kill her off but not in 'shocking' way. Gray Havens though is nice and sweet and gives a forshadowing for future events, very important for good story telling


7.62 mm FMJ
Bree


Dec 27 2013, 5:43am

Post #31 of 50 (285 views)
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though... [In reply to] Can't Post

IIRC the Orcs vastly outnumber the combined dwarves/elves/men coalition, so I don't think having a female infantry dying in combat is exactly "shocking." Of course, the wound and sailing to the west idea is also pretty neat.


The Mitch King
Rohan


Dec 27 2013, 6:46am

Post #32 of 50 (290 views)
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Well…. [In reply to] Can't Post

I wouldn't mind Smaug killing her. Not cause I'm being nasty but I think she would have been a good choice as someone meaningful that Smaug could kill.


ec1988
The Shire

Dec 27 2013, 7:09am

Post #33 of 50 (273 views)
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Well [In reply to] Can't Post

She is confirmed to be in BOFA.


tattooed_dwarf
Rivendell


Dec 27 2013, 7:59am

Post #34 of 50 (261 views)
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Well.. [In reply to] Can't Post

Do you really think most people would know they kill Tauriel in movie before seeing it in theaters? I never understand this logic when people say they some wouldn't go to watch movie because some minor detail. Average Joe doesn't read spoilerfilled forums or even reviews. Especially since this Hobbit trilogy is so big francise, people wan't to see it just because it is the "THING" right now.
And it's really sad people get upset for killing of characters or some other harder decisions in movies. Do people really want the easiest and simplest movie and nothing to make them think or feel anything more than "that's cool".


tattooed_dwarf
Rivendell


Dec 27 2013, 8:02am

Post #35 of 50 (262 views)
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Please explain [In reply to] Can't Post

where would that said part of demographic be alienated from? From seeing it in theaters? Most people just wouldn't know about killing some character before going to theater.


painjoiker
Grey Havens


Dec 27 2013, 11:26am

Post #36 of 50 (246 views)
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Why is female deaths more shocking than mens death? [In reply to] Can't Post

I really don't see that logic...
Sounds very sexist to me

Vocalist in the progressive metal band 5 Minutes Late
and the progressive doom rock band Mater Thallium


Escapist
Gondor


Dec 27 2013, 12:35pm

Post #37 of 50 (234 views)
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Your root comment [In reply to] Can't Post

happened to refer to the deaths of royalty and romance associated with a female death all in a very few sentences. Maybe I should have replied to that comment of yours but I decided to add on to the continuation of the conversation ...


Yva
Rivendell


Dec 27 2013, 1:29pm

Post #38 of 50 (223 views)
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I see [In reply to] Can't Post

Having a tendency to write short and condensed posts and not being a native En speaker, I guess I didn't make myself clear.


DavidDevant
Lorien

Dec 27 2013, 1:32pm

Post #39 of 50 (225 views)
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I would agree - I don't find the whole thrust convincing [In reply to] Can't Post

Either on Jackson's track record or on the idea that a female death is inherently alienating, whereas multiple male deaths are fine.


Rowan Greene
Lorien


Dec 27 2013, 4:08pm

Post #40 of 50 (247 views)
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Regardless of her fate... **SPOILERS** (book) [In reply to] Can't Post

I sincerely hope it doesn't overshadow what should be the pivotal TABA events--namely, the deaths of Kili, Fili, and Thorin and the conclusion of Bilbo's story arc. I hope she doesn't yet again get more screen time than Thranduil or take over his scenes from the book, especially those with Bilbo and Gandalf at the Bo5A.

In fact, I hope we see little of her in the next movie. I'd be thrilled if we learned within the first five minutes that she ran off to visit her second cousin twice removed in some distant woodland. A girl can dream...Tongue

Her inclusion has already resulted in one too many deviations from Tolkien's masterpiece, IMHO.

(I wish all the dwarves had gone with Thorin to the Lonely Mountain, etc.)

And I have no problem with a female dying in the ME films, especially one that shouldn't be there in the first place--again, the latter is MHO. Tauriel's death wouldn't upset me in the least. If she dies, I just hope it goes relatively unnoticed.

On the male v. female character deaths: It's just as upsetting to me when a male character dies. Take Boromir for example...Frown


(This post was edited by Rowan Greene on Dec 27 2013, 4:12pm)


macfalk
Valinor


Dec 27 2013, 5:18pm

Post #41 of 50 (210 views)
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I'm still waiting for an explanation from the OP... [In reply to] Can't Post

of why a female death automatically is "more shocking and too dark" than a male death?



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


Escapist
Gondor


Dec 27 2013, 5:31pm

Post #42 of 50 (192 views)
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I don't think your writing is unclear. [In reply to] Can't Post

But I do wonder if you might be misreading / reading into my comments.

I didn't mean to say that you brought Shakespear up directly in any way. What I did mean was that my reaction to your comments and the themes of lots of deaths (especially of royals) and romanceable females dying as required by stories just reminded me of Shakespear - and also of the fact that Tolkien's flavor is distinctly not Shakespearean.


sarucane
The Shire

Dec 27 2013, 5:55pm

Post #43 of 50 (196 views)
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Need to spread out the drama [In reply to] Can't Post

If the only deaths in the big battle are from the dwarves--and those don't happen until the end--there'll be too much too fast.

Theoden died at Minas Tirith, and it provided an emotional stake to the following battle because there was a real feeling someone we care about could die here.

Tauriel dying slightly earlier will give the battle more resonance over a longer period, and it'll give the audience a look at what death means for elves, something we haven't seen before and something very important to a battle like this where elves die by the thousands.

It can also add to Legolas's plot arc (possibly in relation to Tharanduil), and put emotional weight into his eventual decisions, as well as put even MORE drama into Kili's decisions.

Do we walk in legends or on the green earth in the daylight? A man may do both, for not we but those who come after will make the legends of our time. The green earth, say you? That is a mighty matter of legend, though you tread it under the light of day.

http://tyrannyofthepetticoat.wordpress.com/


ec1988
The Shire

Dec 27 2013, 8:09pm

Post #44 of 50 (184 views)
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It's not about you and me [In reply to] Can't Post

We don't have to find it too shocking, but a large part of the audience, like kids and parents, may find female death shocking and too dark. People buy into this from a cultural perspective, so Warner Brothers and Peter Jackson don't want to turn off a sizable demographic of viewers with female death.


7.62 mm FMJ
Bree


Dec 27 2013, 8:13pm

Post #45 of 50 (188 views)
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Haldir in Helm's Deep [In reply to] Can't Post

Although coincidentally, I think Haldir and Tauriel share similar positions (i.e. military captain)


patrickk
Rohan

Dec 27 2013, 9:01pm

Post #46 of 50 (165 views)
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I would say the demographic... [In reply to] Can't Post

....your refer to is the older men and women (who make take their children or grandchildren). Note that three quarters of the income from these films in most countries (the US and Russia are the exception) come later in the run (after the first couple of weeks) and so it is by word of mouth and the oldies see it later on recommendation from other oldies (they are very picky about how violence is depicted, and PJ knows this). There is nothing wrong with killing her off but it has to be handled well, otherwise the older demographics won't like it, as they are seeking an adventure film. I suspect though they will have her exiled and she goes to the Gray Havens or she is injured and goes to the Gray Havens as they probably should be forshadowed.


DavidDevant
Lorien

Dec 27 2013, 11:36pm

Post #47 of 50 (153 views)
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I think the difficulty is that [In reply to] Can't Post

You keep stating that people find female death more shocking than male death but aren't offering any evidence for those who don't find this intuitive.

Could you offer some examples perhaps ?


BalrogTrainer
Rivendell

Dec 28 2013, 6:04am

Post #48 of 50 (138 views)
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If Tauriel DOES live... [In reply to] Can't Post

... I almost can't imagine her NOT being dispatched to attend the Council of Elrond (and ultimately joining the Fellowship) instead of Legolas. Crazy Her reckless/adventurous side and interest in the outside world has already seemingly played its part in keeping Legolas from blindly following in his father's aloof, isolationist footsteps (though it'll take his further bonding with Gimli to completely break down his attitude toward Dwarves).


sarucane
The Shire

Dec 28 2013, 6:23am

Post #49 of 50 (132 views)
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Same old schtick [In reply to] Can't Post

Same rationale for why the "American public" wasn't "ready" for women to serve in the military as anything but telephone dispatchers. Or why, back in the day, women like Angelina Jolie wouldn't have been allowed to be badass on TV.

Do we walk in legends or on the green earth in the daylight? A man may do both, for not we but those who come after will make the legends of our time. The green earth, say you? That is a mighty matter of legend, though you tread it under the light of day.

http://tyrannyofthepetticoat.wordpress.com/


warhorse78
Bree


Jan 6 2014, 6:10am

Post #50 of 50 (106 views)
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Actually, Kili's fate is still unknown. [In reply to] Can't Post

These are just adaptations of the book, not an actual play by play, and Kili could very well end up alive in the end and ride off into the sunset with his little lady elf!

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