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wonderinglinguist
Lorien
Dec 26 2013, 6:22pm
Post #51 of 59
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there are only 2 examples of exceptions it seems to be a rare thing, and those 2 exceptions are quite notable elves.
If we're just going to chalk her up to being one of those rare exceptions I'm curious how a Silvan elf would end up on the same level as high elves. That's all.
keep smiling 
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DavidDevant
Lorien
Dec 26 2013, 6:45pm
Post #52 of 59
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Are quite a few examples - Mablung, an elf captain does some healing, Glorfindel has a healing effect, Elrond's sons appear to help Aragorn in his healing work etc.
Given that Tolkien writes almost exclusively about notable elves, the the implied causation is not supported. We may as well point out that of all the elven healers specifically mentioned by Tolkien, almost every one was also a fighter - therefore there is no rarity at all!
(This post was edited by DavidDevant on Dec 26 2013, 6:46pm)
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wonderinglinguist
Lorien
Dec 26 2013, 7:26pm
Post #53 of 59
(455 views)
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Thank you for more examples, I'm no Tolkien expert, so I really don't know and I appreciate gaining more knowledge on the subject :)
I'm left to wonder, though, if all of these elves do indeed have healing abilities (you said yourself some just "appear" that way and what's a healing "effect" vs ability?), then why would Tolkien even mention the "rules" of warriors and healers? What's the point if they hold so little weight?
keep smiling
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Lio
Lorien
Dec 26 2013, 7:40pm
Post #54 of 59
(458 views)
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Maybe she's a soldier who just happens to have healing knowledge? It doesn't seem that unusual for an Elf.
I was wondering about her position and age also, in relation to the other Elves. Sure, she's had several centuries to learn the ropes but if she's the youngest Elf wouldn't there be others who are more experienced and better suited for the position than she is? Then again, maybe she's so dedicated that she made her way to the top quickly?
Dwalin Balin Kili Fili Dori Nori Ori Oin Gloin Bifur Bofur Bombur Thorin
Orcs are mammals!
"Don't laugh at the Dwarves because they will mess you up." — Dean O'Gorman (Fili)
Want to chat? AIM me at Yami Liokaiser!
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DavidDevant
Lorien
Dec 26 2013, 7:57pm
Post #55 of 59
(455 views)
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Well the reference to the sexes
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And their preferences was written very late in Tolkien's life and remained unpublished by him during his lifetime.
"We don't really know" is probably the most honest answer - it may have been he changed his mind later in life and we should take chronology as the key precedent (and therefore somehow seek to boundary or ignore all of the examples of predominantly male, predominantly fighting, healing elves mentioned in his earlier works).
Equally it could be valid to say that published works should take precedence over unpublished ones, and that the idea of separation was just that, an idea.
Or we can try to make sense of the seemingly contradictory and steer an understanding which is more nuanced - something along the lines of accepting that although there were preferences, this was by no means a "rule" and we find a reasonable incidences of elves behaving against these "preferences".
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Eleniel
Tol Eressea
Dec 26 2013, 8:25pm
Post #56 of 59
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One thing that I would like to know in all of this is whether Oin would have been able to save Kili, given the chance? He knew about the properties of athelas, and would have been the one to administer it if Tauriel hadn't shown up and taken over. One could say Kili was too far gone by this point and needed her gyrating, glowing treatment, but I reckon that if Oin had treated Kili earlier with the athelas then he would probably have recovered okay.
"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
¯ Victoria Monfort
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wonderinglinguist
Lorien
Dec 26 2013, 9:24pm
Post #57 of 59
(430 views)
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of Gandalf when he gives all the possible meanings of "Good morning" 
It sounds like we really just have to make our best guesses on some things. If only Tolkien was still around to answer our questions so we'd know for certain...
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and knowledge! :)
keep smiling
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DavidDevant
Lorien
Dec 26 2013, 11:20pm
Post #58 of 59
(415 views)
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That's a flattering comparison, though I am no expert I hasten to add.
But yes I tend to agree. There are a few things which are definitely right or wrong, but not as much as people often claim, and the rest is in the middle to be thought about.
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Rowan Greene
Lorien
Dec 27 2013, 4:17pm
Post #59 of 59
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Agreed... I wish they'd remove her fan fiction story arc from the script.
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Tauriel is the most rounded character in the whole film. Are you seriously going to get into the how's and why's of her appointment as captain?? We can see her drive and ability before our very eyes. She may be a 'lowly' Silvan Elf but Thranduil obviously sees her very clearly. No, she's underdeveloped and unrealistic, and a part of an unnecessary and cheesy triangle. And she really is not much more than flashy eye candy.
(This post was edited by Rowan Greene on Dec 27 2013, 4:24pm)
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