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7.62 mm FMJ
Bree
Dec 25 2013, 8:32pm
Post #1 of 59
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Some issues with the elf captain
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So Tauriel is described as 600 years old, which makes her pretty much just a young adult by elf standards. So why would someone like her be made captain? That's like having a 22 year old human colonel.
Also, how would a common elf (or even the dwarves for that matter) have knowledge of kingsfoil, let alone how to use it? If she is a healer then why is she even an infantry captain? Aren't healers considered valuable?
(This post was edited by 7.62 mm FMJ on Dec 25 2013, 8:32pm)
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LordotRings93
Rohan
Dec 25 2013, 8:53pm
Post #2 of 59
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600 years might seem young, but we've seen Tauriel's skills in battle, and they're amazing. She's battle-wise and that's what you need for a captain of the guard. This is Middle-earth, so it doesn't have to seem logical to have an elf considered young as a captain of the guard.
And I think most elves know healing remedies/spells of sorts, no matter how limited, they still have more knowledge than most of the world.
Lover of Medieval Fantasy
"I know what I must do. It's just... I'm afraid to do it."
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patrickk
Rohan
Dec 25 2013, 9:27pm
Post #3 of 59
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...smart people get promoted, so 22 y.o. colonel while not common would not be out of the question. Not sure how you got to 22 perhaps in her twenties would be more like it. Montgomery was a Colonel at 30 for example.
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sycorax82
Rohan
Dec 25 2013, 11:48pm
Post #4 of 59
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Don't criticise the best character in DoS!!
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Tauriel is the most rounded character in the whole film. Are you seriously going to get into the how's and why's of her appointment as captain?? We can see her drive and ability before our very eyes. She may be a 'lowly' Silvan Elf but Thranduil obviously sees her very clearly.
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Dlanor da Great
Rivendell
Dec 25 2013, 11:52pm
Post #5 of 59
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Because the Elven King Thranduil has favored her for 600 ......
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....years. Legolas stated this in the movie. Even in our human world ,the King ,or even a dictator, favoring you is a great way to advance. 
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ec1988
The Shire
Dec 26 2013, 12:01am
Post #6 of 59
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Tauriel is the most rounded character in the whole film. Are you seriously going to get into the how's and why's of her appointment as captain?? We can see her drive and ability before our very eyes. She may be a 'lowly' Silvan Elf but Thranduil obviously sees her very clearly.
No, she's underdeveloped and unrealistic, and a part of an unnecessary and cheesy triangle. And she really is not much more than flashy eye candy.
(This post was edited by ec1988 on Dec 26 2013, 12:05am)
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haldad
Bree
Dec 26 2013, 1:37am
Post #7 of 59
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Would you have said the same thing about Arwen in the LoTR? She had 3 movies worth of development, to Tauriel's 1, and really the only thing I could say about Arwen's character based on the movies is that she loved Aragorn, and she was conflicted about leaving Middle Earth.
Honestly though, character development is not a major thing in either franchises. Look at some of the major characters in LoTR. Gimli was comic relief, and Legolas had no motives for anything. He was just a companion.
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marillaraina
Rohan
Dec 26 2013, 1:43am
Post #8 of 59
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Tauriel is the most rounded character in the whole film. Are you seriously going to get into the how's and why's of her appointment as captain?? We can see her drive and ability before our very eyes. She may be a 'lowly' Silvan Elf but Thranduil obviously sees her very clearly. No, she's underdeveloped and unrealistic, and a part of an unnecessary and cheesy triangle. And she really is not much more than flashy eye candy.
I disagree, she's not underdeveloped and she's no more more unrealistic than any of the male characters are. Her youth is not to prove how awesome she is(as it would be with a stereotypical "Mary Sue) but it seems to me one reason to help explain why she's more open minded and passionate about justice, about wanting to see and be part of the world.
The so-called "Love triangle" took up all of about 30 seconds of the film, I don't think there is enough time devoted to it for to be much of anything. Take out her and Thranduil's couple lines about Legolas being fond of her and there is NO love triangle.
Her relationship with Kili is much more for the contrast between them and their more biased elders than anything to do with Legolas. It's more to tell us about each of them and it does reveal aspects of their personalities we probably wouldn't get to see otherwise, or that would actually need MORE time to devoted to it, whereas Kili having some romantic feelings for her and her having whatever it may be for him(I don't think she actually knows herself yet) is sort of shorthand for it - for their openness and curiosity and ability to see the beauty and goodness in cultures they've been told bad things about. It shows potential for the future - not just their's(because they don't know it yet but Kili at least doesn't have one) but the elves and dwarves. Things don't have to be the way they have been.
(This post was edited by marillaraina on Dec 26 2013, 1:46am)
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Snowghost77
Lorien
Dec 26 2013, 1:46am
Post #9 of 59
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unrealistic? lol....umm...the whole race is made up!!!
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The path of the Warrior is paved in blood, sweat, tears and ultimately death. He weeps for the fallen, bleeds for the cause, and sweats till he dies.
In memory of operation FALLEN ANGEL and the mighty Heroes of SEAL team 6, the PJ's, SOCOM aviation, and all those who fell in the Tangi Valley.
- Task force Warrior will not forget you
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7.62 mm FMJ
Bree
Dec 26 2013, 2:02am
Post #10 of 59
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Yeah, it's favoritism on Thranduil's part
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Otherwise it's difficult to see how the elf equivalent of a young adult is good or wise enough to be captain.
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wonderinglinguist
Lorien
Dec 26 2013, 2:07am
Post #11 of 59
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Not so much her age, but her actions
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She's acts very strong-willed and hotheaded, plus she is politically opposed to her king --not the qualities that strike me as befitting a "captain" of the guard. She's obviously very skilled in fighting and makes an excellent member of the guard, but the head of it? To me, being a great warrior doesn't make someone qualified to be the leader...you need to be able to, well, lead. Her quickness to disobey Thranduil, forsake her position, and later leave her prince to fight on his own make her very unbelievable as the captain. That's how it comes across to me anyway.
As for her healing ability, I really don't know. I read somewhere that elves that are skilled warriors can't (or won't) also be healers, but I don't know if that's true. Can any Tolkien scholars here shine some light on that? Is that how Tolkien described them?
keep smiling 
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marillaraina
Rohan
Dec 26 2013, 2:12am
Post #12 of 59
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Plenty of captain's aren't just yes men.
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She's acts very strong-willed and hotheaded, plus she is politically opposed to her king --not the qualities that strike me as befitting a "captain" of the guard. She's obviously very skilled in fighting and makes an excellent member of the guard, but the head of it? To me, being a great warrior doesn't make someone qualified to be the leader...you need to be able to, well, lead. Her quickness to disobey Thranduil, forsake her position, and later leave her prince to fight on his own make her very unbelievable as the captain. That's how it comes across to me anyway.
As for her healing ability, I really don't know. I read somewhere that elves that are skilled warriors can't (or won't) also be healers, but I don't know if that's true. Can any Tolkien scholars here shine some light on that? Is that how Tolkien described them?
How quick is it? We meet her when she's ready to "rebel" but it had seemingly been a long time coming. Meeting the dwarves, seeing that there was more to them(thanks to her interactions with Kili) is what finally gave her the push to act on her feelings of needing to do more instead of simply going along with what Thranduil was saying.
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor
Dec 26 2013, 3:01am
Post #13 of 59
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Not sure where you get that idea
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Tolkien says in Laws and Customs of the Eldar that the Eldar reach mature by about 50 years old, or at the latest 100 years old. So by no means is a 600 year old Silvan Elf a young adult.
'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'
The Hall of Fire
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wonderinglinguist
Lorien
Dec 26 2013, 3:02am
Post #14 of 59
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I'm glad you liked her, but to me she was unbelievable (as "captain", that is). She has one conversation with a dwarf (which in itself is very quick to materialize) and she's ready to give everything up? For me, if someone seemingly gives no second thought to deciding to give up what has been their entire life, it's reasonable to question if they should have been involved in it in the first place. If, as you suggest, she'd been feeling disgruntled and about to go over the edge for so long, she should have stepped down already.
And, to me, it makes Thranduil look foolish for appointing someone who is so diametrically opposed to what is a very important policy to him and that deals directly with the position.
keep smiling
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DwellerInDale
Rohan
Dec 26 2013, 3:11am
Post #15 of 59
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It wasn't about the Dwarf at all
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Even before having the conversation with Kili, Tauriel was shocked that Thranduil had such an isolationist attitude toward the evil invading the Woodland Realm. Check the look on her face when Thranduil tells her he doesn't care about what havoc the spiders may create in the world at large. Letting the orc pack "roam our lands and kill our prisoners" was the last straw.
Don't mess with my favorite female elf.
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor
Dec 26 2013, 3:14am
Post #16 of 59
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Not too far off on the healer issue
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Here is what Tolkien says in Laws and Customs of the Eldar:
For instance, the arts of healing, and all that touches on the care of the body, are among all the Eldar most practiced by the nissi; whereas it was the elven-men who bore arms at need. And the Eldar deemed that the dealing of death, even when lawful or under necessity, diminished the power of healing, and that the virtue of the nissi in this matter was due rather to their abstaining from hunting or war than to any special power that went with their womanhood. Indeed in dire straits or desperate defence, the nissi fought valiantly, and there was less difference in strength and speed between elven-men and elven-women that had not borne child than is seen among mortals. On the other hand many elven-men were great healers and skilled in the lore of living bodies, though such men abstained from hunting, and went not to war until the last need.
On the other hand, Beleg of Doriath was a great warrior, but also a greater healer. So it obviously is not a cut and dried issue.
'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'
The Hall of Fire
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DwellerInDale
Rohan
Dec 26 2013, 3:16am
Post #17 of 59
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This is explained as part of her story arc
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They didn't say so in the movie, but the writers have indicated that Tauriel's parents were both killed by orcs. This gave her extra motivation which, along with her unusual physical gifts, has allowed her to become the captain of the guards at "only" 600 years old.
Don't mess with my favorite female elf.
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Meneldor
Valinor
Dec 26 2013, 3:45am
Post #18 of 59
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was not THE captain of the guard, but A captain of the guard. I find her believable as a junior officer. And, realistically, how much is there to learn about being a captain OR the captain of the guard that can't be learned in six centuries?
They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters; These see the works of the Lord, and His wonders in the deep.
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7.62 mm FMJ
Bree
Dec 26 2013, 3:56am
Post #19 of 59
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She is the youngest elf character encountered so far, and her age and the fact that she opposes Thranduil's political policies makes it strange that she would be given a leadership position in the military.
And again, it just seems unlikely (not impossible) that a healer (especially one who can treat Morgul wounds) would be front line infantry.
(This post was edited by 7.62 mm FMJ on Dec 26 2013, 4:00am)
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Snowghost77
Lorien
Dec 26 2013, 4:01am
Post #20 of 59
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Perhaps what we saw on screan is her first ever act of defiance. Before now maybe she followed all orders given. You dont have to like your orders or agree with them, your just expected to obey...believe me, I know. Just imagine this was the first time she actually ever disobeyed and acted on her personal opinions regarding foreign policy.
The path of the Warrior is paved in blood, sweat, tears and ultimately death. He weeps for the fallen, bleeds for the cause, and sweats till he dies.
In memory of operation FALLEN ANGEL and the mighty Heroes of SEAL team 6, the PJ's, SOCOM aviation, and all those who fell in the Tangi Valley.
- Task force Warrior will not forget you
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Snowghost77
Lorien
Dec 26 2013, 4:04am
Post #21 of 59
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also all infantry units have combat medics who go everywhere....
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the infantry goes. How else do you think they get medical treatment on the battlefield?
The path of the Warrior is paved in blood, sweat, tears and ultimately death. He weeps for the fallen, bleeds for the cause, and sweats till he dies.
In memory of operation FALLEN ANGEL and the mighty Heroes of SEAL team 6, the PJ's, SOCOM aviation, and all those who fell in the Tangi Valley.
- Task force Warrior will not forget you
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wonderinglinguist
Lorien
Dec 26 2013, 4:08am
Post #22 of 59
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We know she isn't thrilled with Thranduil's politics. My whole point was that it doesn't seem to take much for her to go against her (sworn?) duties as Captain, which makes her somewhat unbelievable to me. Her leaving happens very suddenly (even more so if that scene is the first time she's hearing of Thranduil's isolationist politics).
Maybe in the extended edition there will be more scenes that make it seem less rushed and sudden, but for now all we have is what's in the movie and that's how it looks to me.
How did you get that screencap?
keep smiling
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7.62 mm FMJ
Bree
Dec 26 2013, 4:14am
Post #23 of 59
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Tauriel is medic and platoon commander and front line infantry. I don't see why they would risk a medic in front line combat (unless she is somehow an extraordinarily effective warrior).
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wonderinglinguist
Lorien
Dec 26 2013, 4:17am
Post #24 of 59
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a movie-goer doesn't know that. Literally all we have to go on are the scenes in the film and you shouldn't have to read a backstory on her for it to make sense. It's the movie's responsibility to make the character believable.
More scenes in the Extended Edition may remedy (or ease) the issue, but this is all we have right now.
keep smiling
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wonderinglinguist
Lorien
Dec 26 2013, 4:19am
Post #25 of 59
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Thank you so much for the information!
Do you know if these "rules" would apply any differently to Silvan elves?
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