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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Tauriel's likely demise
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7.62 mm FMJ
Bree

Dec 20 2013, 4:45am

Post #1 of 28 (1753 views)
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Tauriel's likely demise Can't Post

I think there's a high possibility that she is written off in the battle of the 5 armies. We know that Kili, the dwarf she formed an attachment with, will fall, and she is absent in LOTR.

Does Peter Jackson have a history of killing off characters that were in the original text in his film adaptations?


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Dec 20 2013, 4:52am

Post #2 of 28 (1384 views)
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well even if she lived... [In reply to] Can't Post

she wouldn't be around any of the events seen in LOTR's, she would be defending the woodland realm.

I am fire.. I am death. -Smaug the magnificent


Elizabeth
Half-elven


Dec 20 2013, 4:57am

Post #3 of 28 (1401 views)
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PJ has been very respectful... [In reply to] Can't Post

...of the mortality/survival in the books. After his initial pitch to the Weinburgs re LotR, they insisted that at least one of the Hobbits had to die. That would certainly have been in keeping with current fashions in screenwriting, but was one of the reasons he sought an alternative backer.

I think it's highly likely that the book characters who die in the book will meet similar fates in the movie, and the others will survive. Invented characters, however, get no such guarantees. Tauriel is toast, IMO.








Imladris18
Lorien


Dec 20 2013, 5:04am

Post #4 of 28 (1360 views)
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Really hoping the "apparent literary death" doesn't happen. [In reply to] Can't Post

So much death is already impending :(

I hate that people have to have a *reason* to live. "Oh, well she liked someone who dies, so she'll die too," or "they don't have anything notable left to do, so they'll die."

Makes me sad.



(This post was edited by Imladris18 on Dec 20 2013, 5:10am)


Elskidor
Rohan


Dec 20 2013, 5:23am

Post #5 of 28 (1301 views)
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Let us see here [In reply to] Can't Post

If she dies too, and I suspect Radagast will also fall, then the total deaths in this movie are racking up fairly large.
Tauriel, Radagast, Thorin, Kili, Fili, Smaug, Azog, Bolg and 1000's of others, of course only a few of those will be mourned by the audience (Pssst....Azog, Smaug and Bolg j/k).

Looking at it like this I am starting to think that one of Bard's children will not die. Too much death. What can men do against such reckless hate?

Tolkien Elimination Game

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tarasaurus
Rohan


Dec 20 2013, 5:50am

Post #6 of 28 (1285 views)
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hmmmm (some book/TABA spoilers) [In reply to] Can't Post

If they go by the book and Bolg dies how he normally does, I wonder if that may be a less cared for death than say Azog. As of now we know Azog better and I'm not sure if anyone feels invested in Bolg yet after seeing DoS. But if Bolg delivers the mortal wound to Thorin, then that may be an emotional death when Beorn steps in.

I'm not sure that Tauriel will die. I hope not because I want to focus on our main important deaths (I do like Tauriel, btw). But Smaug, Thorin, Fili and Kili should certainly be priority. I think Radagast will live but as PJ put it, he vanishes into the woods and begins to forget his purpose in the world.


Cirashala
Valinor


Dec 20 2013, 6:06am

Post #7 of 28 (1289 views)
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I think *book spoilers* [In reply to] Can't Post

That there's still the strong possibility that Tauriel could live to LOTR and still be absent from those films/that story.

Because when Gollum escaped those who guarded him in the woods were killed by the orcs that aided in his escape.

Tauriel could very likely have been one of those killed. I can see the captain of the guards being directly responsible for Gollum (and the whole 'don't screw it up again like you did with the dwarves' idea)

That would also be excellent motivation for Legolas to join the fellowship, as he is the one who has to deliver the news of Gollum's escape to the Council of Elrond. Perhaps he was still grieving for his lost love/friend, and didn't think he had anything to lose going on the Quest of the Ring.

It would explain her absence from LOTR while still allowing her to survive the BO5A.

I don't think she should die in TABA. It would overshadow the "big 3" and under no circumstances should I think their deaths should be anything less than Fili and Kili dying in full honor and glory defending their mortally wounded uncle (because, as Tolkien specifically states he's their UNCLE, not because he's their KING, and even though they disagreed with him in the arkenstone fiasco.

Their honorable and noble death is the reason their mother is the ONLY Tolkien female dwarf listed in the lineages, so it has to be amazingly tragic and beautiful. I am no book purist, but this (and Thorin's apology to Bilbo) really has to be done right for biggest impact (and most tears Unsure).

Not spoiled by Tauriel (no matter how much I like her general character).

Race is meaningless. We all bleed red-no matter who or what we are. What matters is the heart. For each race has those with good hearts and those with bad hearts. You have a good heart. You do not deserve to die.

(This post was edited by Cirashala on Dec 20 2013, 6:08am)


Bombadil
Half-elven


Dec 20 2013, 6:17am

Post #8 of 28 (1251 views)
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Bomby's Pet Theory? She & Bard fall in Love [In reply to] Can't Post

Live Happly Ever After
re-building Laketown.

Bada-Bing-Bada-Bong!

Bomby


Cirashala
Valinor


Dec 20 2013, 6:26am

Post #9 of 28 (1234 views)
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EL [In reply to] Can't Post

said love triangle, not love square Tongue

But I do find your post funny Bomby.

You never cease to amuse me with your well thought out (though sometimes not easily understood) posts Wink

lol....

Race is meaningless. We all bleed red-no matter who or what we are. What matters is the heart. For each race has those with good hearts and those with bad hearts. You have a good heart. You do not deserve to die.


Fili
Lorien


Dec 20 2013, 7:29am

Post #10 of 28 (1204 views)
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I Still Have My Pet Theory... [In reply to] Can't Post

That Tauriel is Legolas's mother. What does THAT do to the love triangle? Does it form some kind of a love helix? Laugh

“So comes snow after fire, and even dragons have their endings.”


DanielLB
Immortal


Dec 20 2013, 7:47am

Post #11 of 28 (1190 views)
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Ideally ... [In reply to] Can't Post

Tauriel and Radagast take a ship to Valinor. That would be bittersweet.

Most likely, nothing will happen to her. Not everything has to be explained. There are enough characters in The Hobbit that don't appear in The Lord of the Rings, and many of them were still alive and kicking.



Elskidor
Rohan


Dec 20 2013, 7:55am

Post #12 of 28 (1185 views)
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I have not read up on the fate of the rest of the dwarves, [In reply to] Can't Post

but besides for Thorin, Fili, KIli, Balin and Ori, didn't they stick around and fight with Dain in the war of the ring? I figured they did anyhow. Bombur slept through it.

If it was left to the readers to decide then that would be my guess.

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Danielos
Rohan

Dec 20 2013, 8:02am

Post #13 of 28 (1180 views)
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Orch hero moments [In reply to] Can't Post

I hope more dwarves dies in the last film (let 5-6 survive). That would answer the (justified) common criticism of these films.
1. Dwarves survive any danger and seems to be indestructible
2. Orchs are worthless, incompetent cannon fodder
I want to see the orchs as skilled, fearsome warriors in the last one, claiming many lives and having several "hero moments" of their own.


Rowan Greene
Lorien


Dec 20 2013, 11:03am

Post #14 of 28 (1129 views)
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I hope she passes quietly..... [In reply to] Can't Post

I hope she dies a quick and quiet death that mostly goes unnoticed by all. I do *not* want her death to overshadow that of the "book 3" and I certainly don't want her death to impact other story arcs (like Legolas, Thranduil, etc.).


Bombadil
Half-elven


Dec 20 2013, 11:22am

Post #15 of 28 (1138 views)
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Why Bomby thinks Tauriel & Bard Hook up! [In reply to] Can't Post

Last Wednesday Bomby wrote this
BUT,it's Buried on page 5 or
something?

"She just now saved Bard's family
INSIDE their House!

There could develop a
Motherly bond between her
and his 3 kids!

Still amazed that PJ showed Orcs
trying kill little human CHILDREN?.

Maybe we have had it all wrong..
Maybe She & Bard fall in LOVE?

It was said that Aragorn & Arwen marrying
gave Mankind (US) some elfvish qualities?

Well, a Lowly Silvan Elf marrying a man
does NOT seem too... far-fetched
to that
little old Romantic,
Bomby. "

Now,TODAY.. to reinforce this theory..

1. Leggy & her have been friends for 600 years.
If they were to get romantic Now? Don't think so.
His father..has More or less Ruled that OUT.

2. He follows her to bring her back
but she convinces him to follow her
to kill the Orcs into Laketown.

Leggy Doesn't want his Captain of Guard to go alone.
There he feels "Duty-Bound".

3. Kili is just in awe of her, yet knows this is
Unlikely?

In Jail, Bomby thinks he thought
he could talk his way out of Jail?
and rescue his company.
He would have his
Hero Moment to
impress his uncle?

Likley if Kili wins back Erebor, it's
Likely he could have just about
any Dwarve woman
to continue the
Line of Durin? (Bomby also thinks Kili
already has a girlfriend in Ered Luin?)

So, since Leggy is gone off to try to take down Bolg,
She will be there with Bard to help kill Smaug.
Maybe right next to him shooting Arrows
at the Ballistra!

4. When Laketown sinks?
Likely she will save Bard & his 3 kids again?

THAT is much that could bond the 5 together..

Likely she goes to Bof5A with the Laketown people
since Thranduiel may have Banished her already?

If they marry after the Bo5A,
she and Bard re-build Dale & Laketown
together
with Elven & Dwarish Help?

PJ always surprizes us, and
SO Does
Bomby TRY to..
with his "Out of Left Field"
Theorys


(This post was edited by Bombadil on Dec 20 2013, 11:25am)


Bumblingidiot
Rohan

Dec 20 2013, 12:09pm

Post #16 of 28 (1101 views)
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It's a bizarre argument [In reply to] Can't Post

that crops up here quite often - the notion that if a character is still alive, then they must somehow appear in all future stories set in the same world, or their absence must somehow be explained.

If you tell different stories about the same world, they are likely to have different people in them. Winston Churchill doesn't pop up in the Sound of Music - he was alive at the time, so how can we explain his absence? Truly bizarre.

"Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear."


Glorfindela
Valinor


Dec 20 2013, 4:18pm

Post #17 of 28 (1028 views)
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Yes, that's true [In reply to] Can't Post

I would want the deaths to be reserved to the three major ones – and I certainly wouldn't want Radagast to die, either, since I have the distinct impression that he is around during the events of LOTR.


In Reply To
that crops up here quite often - the notion that if a character is still alive, then they must somehow appear in all future stories set in the same world, or their absence must somehow be explained.

If you tell different stories about the same world, they are likely to have different people in them. Winston Churchill doesn't pop up in the Sound of Music - he was alive at the time, so how can we explain his absence? Truly bizarre.



dormouse
Half-elven


Dec 20 2013, 4:32pm

Post #18 of 28 (1042 views)
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I don't think there's even the remotest possibility.... [In reply to] Can't Post

... of one of Bard's children dying. Bain won't, for a start, because he has a later history. It would have to be one of the girls, and honestly, I don't think they would even contemplate that. Far too shocking. At worst there may be an 'are they or aren't they' moment (as there is in the book, with Bard himself).


sarucane
The Shire

Dec 21 2013, 8:02am

Post #19 of 28 (957 views)
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Need for Dramatic Impact [In reply to] Can't Post

I'd say she will die, but not because she's absent from LotR (although if she were still alive, I don't know why she wouldn't have taken Legolas' place in the Fellowship--it seems from this film, where he has to be convinced to drop in on the neighbors, much more his thing than hers).

They need more deaths for this last movie. I know, we've got the big three dwarves--but they're all scheduled to die very close to each other, and that's obviously the climax of the film. Before that, there's an enormous battle full of people dying.

Tauriel being cut down will have serious impact. It'll make the battle matter emotionally, enough that the final emergence of Thorin to salvage the fight will make sense. And it'll give our pal Legolas a legitimate character arc, the lucky elvish princeling.

Also, they've never killed an elf. Not one with a real personality, whose name we remember. It's something new and interesting, which is what a lot of these prequels have been about. What does it mean for an elf to die? We've never seen it.

Do we walk in legends or on the green earth in the daylight? A man may do both, for not we but those who come after will make the legends of our time. The green earth, say you? That is a mighty matter of legend, though you tread it under the light of day.

http://tyrannyofthepetticoat.wordpress.com/


Cirashala
Valinor


Dec 21 2013, 9:42am

Post #20 of 28 (946 views)
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like your idea, but [In reply to] Can't Post

they have killed an elf that we know the name of- Haldir.

And they set that up to be quite emotional, as it is made clear that Aragorn and Haldir know each other.

Race is meaningless. We all bleed red-no matter who or what we are. What matters is the heart. For each race has those with good hearts and those with bad hearts. You have a good heart. You do not deserve to die.


peterLF
Rivendell

Dec 21 2013, 6:28pm

Post #21 of 28 (937 views)
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bolg [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
If they go by the book and Bolg dies how he normally does, I wonder if that may be a less cared for death than say Azog. As of now we know Azog better and I'm not sure if anyone feels invested in Bolg yet after seeing DoS. But if Bolg delivers the mortal wound to Thorin, then that may be an emotional death when Beorn steps in.

I'm not sure that Tauriel will die. I hope not because I want to focus on our main important deaths (I do like Tauriel, btw). But Smaug, Thorin, Fili and Kili should certainly be priority. I think Radagast will live but as PJ put it, he vanishes into the woods and begins to forget his purpose in the world.


Bolg is out... Right now, Azog is taking all of his part. Bolg is set up to be cannon fodder for Legolas. Unless something really surprising happens. The only thing i feel would save the book version with Bolg being killed by Beorn is if they continue down the "he tortured skinchangers"-subplot. Otherwise Azog will lead the army (like Sauron told him to do), and Beorn's part in the book is to end the battle - more so than just revenge.

Also, Azog already commented on Beorn and it is obvious he fears him. They might use Bolgs death as something that pushes Azog into berserker mode and gets the overhand to kill the 3 dwarves - and a Tauriel/Legolas/Bolg/Kili thing could certainly be weaved in.

But in short - I don't think Bolg is going to much more than just what he's been doing DoS. When has Legolas last failed in killing someone?


peterLF
Rivendell

Dec 21 2013, 6:32pm

Post #22 of 28 (930 views)
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Radagast...?? [In reply to] Can't Post

There is no reason at all why Radagast should die. Certainly not at the Bo5A, and why would the Battle of Dol Guldur be any different? You don't just kill of a wizard. Especially not when he's surrounded by two other wizards and an elf sorceress.


Na Vedui
Rohan


Dec 21 2013, 10:32pm

Post #23 of 28 (928 views)
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Well, there is a Tolkien example... [In reply to] Can't Post

... that is outside the family line of Aragorn and Arwen, Tuor and Idril and Beren and Luthien:
It is said that the princes of Dol Amroth are descended from the Elf-maiden Mithrellas, who was one of Nimrodel's people.


Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea

Dec 21 2013, 11:35pm

Post #24 of 28 (912 views)
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I do too [In reply to] Can't Post

But Im going to spend 2014 realizing that likely her death is going to fit in here somewhere. I just hope it doesn't overshadow Kili/Fili and Thorin's.

Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13


Heir of Durin
The Shire


Dec 21 2013, 11:47pm

Post #25 of 28 (915 views)
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Dwelven Baby [In reply to] Can't Post

Maybe before Kili dies, he has a little tryst with Tauriel. She ends up pregnant and has the first Dwelven baby of Middle Earth.

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