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Yngwulff
Gondor
Dec 17 2013, 7:52pm
Post #1 of 17
(922 views)
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The Arkenstone!
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I think Bilbo snagged it.
He was very evasive with Thorin when questioned about it.
Agree/disagree???
Comments -
“I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.”
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tsmith675
Gondor
Dec 17 2013, 7:54pm
Post #2 of 17
(548 views)
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I didn't think there was any ambiguity about I just assumed that he has it.
"Seriously, why was the scene with CGI dwarf ass NOT in the theatrical cut?!"
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burgahobbit
Rohan
Dec 17 2013, 8:04pm
Post #3 of 17
(513 views)
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Yes, I am sure that he grabbed it just after he slipped the ring on
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And it will be revealed early on in TABA. Smaug placing a distruct of Thorin in Bilbo's heart was an interesting way of showing why Bilbo kept it from him. Love it!
"I've found it is the small things, everyday deeds of ordinary folk, that keeps the darkness at bay. Simple acts of kindness and love. Why Bilbo Baggins? Perhaps it is because I’m afraid, and he gives me courage.” - Gandalf the Grey.
"Do not be afraid Mithrandir, if ever you should need my help, I will come." - Lady Galadriel.
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Belegdir
Lorien
Dec 17 2013, 8:12pm
Post #4 of 17
(497 views)
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I'm sure Bilbo picked it up as soon as Smaug was distracted by Thorin.
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dubulous
Rohan
Dec 17 2013, 8:26pm
Post #6 of 17
(456 views)
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He could have anything down his trousers //
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Heir of Durin
The Shire
Dec 17 2013, 9:07pm
Post #7 of 17
(449 views)
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I think Bilbo grabbed it as well. I hope he asks Thorin what it looks like trying to evade suspicion, and we finally get Thorin's description of the Arkenstone.
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elf-lady
Rivendell
Dec 17 2013, 9:08pm
Post #8 of 17
(414 views)
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He has it for sure. Burglar!Hobbit.
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Remus
Lorien
Dec 17 2013, 9:34pm
Post #9 of 17
(414 views)
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Didn't the last thing we see in the golden chamber that Bilbo almost picks it up under those pillars just before Smaugs claw comes around a pillar?
It surely would make sense that Bilbo took it.
I wanna see a scene where we see Sauron walking the steps INSIDE of Bara-Dur and taking his seat upon his dark throne and summoning the eye, looking into the camera and then BAM! THE END.
-My thoughts on the best ending scene/post credit scene on TABA.
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Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea
Dec 17 2013, 10:08pm
Post #10 of 17
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We have had some discussion on whether he has it or not (and most say he does).
But what are people's thoughts on Bilbo's morality here as far as it goes? In the book, although Thorin describes the Arkenstone he doesn't specifically send Bilbo in to get it for him and Bilbo is able to take it and say to himself essentially that he has kept it and that is is "his choosing" of his part of the treasure, even though he knew deep down that this wasn't the case and I think he says something like "Trouble would come of it" or something to that affect.
Here though Thorin specifically is after the Arkenstone above all else. So I'm trying to think about Bilbo's motivations here (so well put by Old Toby in another thread that's off the page now) and how the audience is going to reconcile that. I guess we now have to take the position that Bilbo is essentially saving Thorin from himself.
Otherwise, Bilbo is pretty larcenous here..to a degree..kind of like what Old Toby was saying earlier. Do we feel that Bilbo is significantly different about this than in the book? Or is it about the same..just a different perspective from Bilbo's part.
For me, I think the movie Bilbo is clearer in a way. I can plausibly believe that he has taken it to save Thorin. In the book, not so much because that whole thing is never really mentioned (the gold sickness vis a vis the Arkenstone).
Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13
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Kendalf
Rohan
Dec 17 2013, 10:58pm
Post #11 of 17
(357 views)
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I'm trying to think about Bilbo's motivations here...I guess we now have to take the position that Bilbo is essentially saving Thorin from himself.
Spot on. That's how I read it.
"I have found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay. Small acts of kindness and love."
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ShireHorse
Rohan
Dec 17 2013, 11:06pm
Post #12 of 17
(358 views)
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(and I have watched it twice) that Bilbo was trying to save Thorin from himself. He seemed frightened and in a panic but otherwise strangely silent on the issue so that, if I didn't know the story, i would guess that he had it but wondered why he didn't give it up - especially with a dragon on his tail.
I think I might have concluded - because PJ had been building up the idea that the Ring was having some kind of corrupting effect on him - that it was the Ring that was influencing him to keep quiet and that he has become a thief, indeed.
This is how the book shows it, of course. The Arkenstone seems to have a similar effect as the Ring: people who see it, want it. And Bilbo pockets it even though he knows he is in the wrong and even though he knows how much Thorin wants it.
And so, I think this is PJ's way of showing how the two main protagonists are both being affected adversely by something outside themselves. And because these are outside influences - dragon sickness and the Ring - we are more inclined to forgive them their failings, especially when Bilbo manages to shrug these influences off when he gives up the Arkenstone to Bard.
But, I do think that the Ring will be shown to have a malign influence because the forces of evil, of course, definitely don't want Thorin to get his hands on the Arkenstone and unite the dwarven kingdoms as a power to be reckoned with (Gandalf's hope). But Bilbo's personal struggle with its influence will reveal him to be an all round decent guy, even though passing over the Arkenstone to Bard is a bad idea because of the conflict that ensues....But, perhaps this is what the Ring wanted all along.
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Ringer4Life
Registered User
Dec 17 2013, 11:06pm
Post #13 of 17
(352 views)
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makes you think that Bilbo is gonna try to stop Thorin from falling sick with lust for gold like his ancestors did. Also Bilbo has to have it in order to make the deal with the elves. I'm kinda wondering how Gandalf gets away from Dol Gul Dur to the BO5A, he is a crucial part in Bilbo's decision to "betray" Thorin.
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Fili
Lorien
Dec 17 2013, 11:55pm
Post #14 of 17
(328 views)
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One could make a case that Smaug, by telling Bilbo anout the Arkenstone's effect on Thorin, put a dragon spell on Bilbo's mind, so that he would not be willing to hand the Arkenstone over to Thorin.
Again, it's a wild thought, and I do think it comes down to Bilbo just being scared that Thorin is going nuts. But you never know...
“So comes snow after fire, and even dragons have their endings.”
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Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea
Dec 18 2013, 12:52am
Post #15 of 17
(283 views)
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Now we all know Dragons put spells on people. That is an interesting idea indeed!
Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13
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Bard'sBlackArrow
Lorien
Dec 18 2013, 2:08am
Post #16 of 17
(266 views)
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Especially since Bilbo overheard the conversation in Rivendell warning about Thorin and the dragon sickness.
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Al Carondas
Lorien
Dec 21 2013, 2:55pm
Post #17 of 17
(188 views)
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I kept expecting him to grab it. Seemed to make sense he would. But then Smaug has Bilbo and the stone directly under his gaze almost daring him to try. In the next moment the dragon thrashes wildly, Bilbo runs one way, and I could swear I see the gleam of the Arkenstone flying off in the opposite direction on a wave of gold. But maybe Bilbo's hands are quicker than the eye.
"Good Morning!"
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