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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The Nazgul should fully reveal BEFORE Sauron, their Master... The flash should have killed orcs... Thranduil is excellent.... other matters>?
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AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Dec 13 2013, 10:37pm

Post #1 of 28 (950 views)
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The Nazgul should fully reveal BEFORE Sauron, their Master... The flash should have killed orcs... Thranduil is excellent.... other matters>? Can't Post

Specific Issues: I really wish the Nine had featured here, in Dol Guldur, against Gandalf, as part of the lead up to his battle with Sauron. There should have been something of that light and flame battle of Amon Sul relocated to Dol Guldur. THEN, once he has driven them back, let Sauron himself come forth as a last measure, and the scene be allowed to unfold as it does wonderfully in the movie.

The Dol Guldur scene, overall, was not bad and was at points excellent and epic, HOWEVER, Azog should have been bounced around more by an angry Gandalf. Also, the flash in which the Wizard dissapears (a clear nod to the scene in The Hobbit actual tale where he vanishes in a blinding flash like lightning which kills around a dozen goblins) should have KILLED several orcs and flung back and physically stunned Azog. I quite enjoyed the spell of revelation vs. spell of concealment.

As I will mention again, Thranduil was MAGNIFICENT! I wish there had been more of them. He is all one could reasonably desire of a King of The Sindar, he is a true kinsman and heir (indirectly) to Thingol of Doraith. My only complaint of his scenes with Thorin is that they were not longer. Beorn is also great. Bit of a surprise when we see how cheeky he is Laugh (those who have seen will get this joke lol), though mine Elf-Bride and I really appreciated the honesty of the transformation (it is appalling when shifters change garments et al).

Before I go general, I do have to say that the movie did seem padded in places, and very much engineered to make for a cliffhanger ending at least in Dol Guldur. Five minutes or more could EASILY have been cut out of the SmaugchasesthedwarvesalloverErebor scene (you can expect a Benny Hill themesong added run up on this, for certain), in order to better accomodate a moment for Radagast to come, messages delivered, and spring his fellow Wizard or something of the sort. Also, whilst the Bree scene gave a touch more insight, I am not sure it gave enough to merit having been put in at the expense of other events more fully unfolding.

I found little to gripe about with Tauriel, other than her being present when Glorfindel never has a real shining moment in the series, EXCEPT for the healing of Kili scene. It started find, it ended touchingly, but the GLOWING moment was even worse than I had feared. All slow talking Tauriel and come hither staring... it was like an 80s porn parody of the scene. Suddenly she is bathed in a holy nimbus (forget that she is the wrong type of Elf to have such a thing, as Thranduil himself essentially points out), and... she might has well have been saying "come on into my bed," in a flick of sexual focus. And, worse by far than any libidnious innuendo, it was COMIC! It came across as humour and took me out of an otherwise solid scene!

Overall Review


A fantastic and enchanting movie? YES. Were there any shortcomings? Sure. What would have made it better? ALERT, SPOILERS!!! The following would have been serious improvements: More Beorn and Thranduil would have been great. A little more thumping for Azog in Dol Guldur, he is outmatched but gets off easy, considering. A little less of the Benny Hill chase with the otherwise AWESOME Dragon, insert Nazgul before their Master, and then proceed as normal... but get past the cliffhanger in that part, thanks! Also... no Noldorin glow for Tauriel. Sorry. lol Everything else YEAH!!!

The GREAT?! Smaug, Smaug, SMAUUUUUUG! He is Massive! Not quite Godzilla big, but well on the way, and quite adequate. Dwarfs the fell beasts. His design is excellent. Benedict does the role a ton of justice, adding his own sinsiter angle, but also keeping much of the bombast and majesty that the late Richard Boone brought in classic form to the old Animated. Thranduil is without flaw. Dare we say it... fabulous Cool lolol.

As mentioned, between orcs and the demon-Necromancer, we should have seen a duel with The Nine Nazgul. I am certain they will show up and out in the final movie, but they are both less in power and a lesser reveal than their master, and the books give precedent for Gandalf fighting and driving them back so, a fudge there. That said, Gandalf's moment against Sauron is epic! The Wizard really brings down the house up until he runs into that even mightier Spirit.

The Woodland realm is lovely, and Laketown is a Dickensian treat that feels right at home during the Winter Holiday season. There will be moments when you think of A Christmas Carol and Santa Claus is Coming to town, but I mean that in the best, most charming way possible. lol Beorn is excellent, in either form. You will wish there was more of him and his cozy hut. The action is non stop. Tauriel is, for an invented additive, quite good, though there is one scene with her where less would have been more. Legolas kicks a keg and ton of ass, though he may have met his match in Azog's son Bolg. Balin is as wonderful as he was last year, and the same goes for Bofur. We get a bit more of cantankerous Dwalin, and good humour mixed in. Any other questions? Ask away. Lol.

"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Glorfindela
Valinor


Dec 13 2013, 10:46pm

Post #2 of 28 (565 views)
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Really good to read your thoughts, AinurOlorin [In reply to] Can't Post

I pretty much agree with everything you say – it's just that you say it better than I ever would on an Internet forum!

I too love Thranduil – the most Elf-like of all PJ's M-E Elves by far. I just wish we could have more of him, and also of Beorn, who was fantastic (plus loved the bees, horses and other animals, and his house in general).

But that Smaug – I think he has been taken for granted a bit, but so much work must have gone into him to ensure that he looked right. It could all easily have gone wrong, as dragons have in every other film I've seen.

Amazing…


unexpectedvisitor
Rohan

Dec 13 2013, 10:46pm

Post #3 of 28 (563 views)
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this point! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

I found little to gripe about with Tauriel, other than her being present when Glorfindel never has a real shining moment in the series, EXCEPT for the healing of Kili scene. It started find, it ended touchingly, but the GLOWING moment was even worse than I had feared. All slow talking Tauriel and come hither staring... it was like an 80s porn parody of the scene. Suddenly she is bathed in a holy nimbus (forget that she is the wrong type of Elf to have such a thing, as Thranduil himself essentially points out), and... she might has well have been saying "come on into my bed," in a flick of sexual focus. And, worse by far than any libidnious innuendo, it was COMIC! It came across as humour and took me out of an otherwise solid scene!




agreed! i don't think i hated the glowing moment as much as you but i basically agree with everything you say here about Tauriel.

and i didn't mind the idea behind the glowing bit, it just felt like they accidentally used the wrong take for it, lol, and the editing didn't work.


Fili
Lorien


Dec 13 2013, 10:47pm

Post #4 of 28 (547 views)
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Great Review! [In reply to] Can't Post

While I still think people read too much into that Tauriel light (and IMO also read too much romance into it), I pretty much agree with all the points you made.

The absence of the Nine after we've gone to the trouble of checking their tombs out is one of my biggest complaints, next to Bard already knowing about Smaug's weakness.

And yeah, where you want more, I want more. Where you want less, I want less.

Great film though, yeah!

“So comes snow after fire, and even dragons have their endings.”


unexpectedvisitor
Rohan

Dec 13 2013, 10:52pm

Post #5 of 28 (539 views)
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yeah, i really agree with a lot of the review [In reply to] Can't Post

i don't feel as strongly about the Nine having to reveal before Sauron, though i might have liked that a bit better, but this review basically covers most of the bases for me. great movie, just a bit too padded and with a few flaws, like all movies.


Michelle Johnston
Rohan


Dec 13 2013, 10:54pm

Post #6 of 28 (540 views)
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Thrain [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree with all of your post except I am surprised you did not mention the absence of Thrain and the key and the map plot hole.

I really found the James Bond Erebor moments a problem. Indeed Smaug shaking off the gold felt entirely right getting rid of that silly gold finger moment.

My Dear Bilbo something is the matter with you! you are not the same hobbit that you were.

(This post was edited by Michelle Johnston on Dec 13 2013, 10:56pm)


Elessar
Valinor


Dec 13 2013, 11:00pm

Post #7 of 28 (520 views)
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Glad you liked it AO [In reply to] Can't Post

I thought about you a couple times during the movie. I wasn't sure if you'd like it but I'm glad you did.



AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Dec 13 2013, 11:10pm

Post #8 of 28 (517 views)
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My thanks, as always, for your high praise. I WILL be seeing it again, [In reply to] Can't Post

though I am pretty sure my pros and cons list won't change all that much. lol

In Reply To
I pretty much agree with everything you say – it's just that you say it better than I ever would on an Internet forum!

I too love Thranduil – the most Elf-like of all PJ's M-E Elves by far. I just wish we could have more of him, and also of Beorn, who was fantastic (plus loved the bees, horses and other animals, and his house in general).

But that Smaug – I think he has been taken for granted a bit, but so much work must have gone into him to ensure that he looked right. It could all easily have gone wrong, as dragons have in every other film I've seen.

Amazing…


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


lurtz2010
Rohan

Dec 13 2013, 11:15pm

Post #9 of 28 (519 views)
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Arwen glowed for Frodo [In reply to] Can't Post

wasn't it just something similar to that? morgul wounds make elves do that.


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Dec 13 2013, 11:55pm

Post #10 of 28 (475 views)
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*Nods to Fili AND To UnexpectedAdvisor* [In reply to] Can't Post

The romance didn't bother me. The light made me shake my head in disbelief. It was excess and badly handled, with the later being a bigger problem than the former.

Agreed, and I am glad you mentioned that. We see the Witch-King in film one, we get this whole searching of the tombs... and then no Nazgul. Its Very bizzare and backwards. Its all but a certainty that they will be trotted out in film three with menacing music but... Hey, we have already been in a Maiar to Maiar battle with Sauron, himself! And it was BEAUTIFULLY realized, but, if they had trimmed the Dragon bloopers chase a been less invested in dragging out our time in Bree, we could have gotten t three tiered situation in Dol Guldur, where Gandalf batters the orcs a touch more, then encounters the Nine.. da daaant daaaaaa, fends them off successfully, dissapates several as Radagast managed with The-Witch King, goes to flee, and then encounters Sauron exactly as in the film.

In Reply To
While I still think people read too much into that Tauriel light (and IMO also read too much romance into it), I pretty much agree with all the points you made.

The absence of the Nine after we've gone to the trouble of checking their tombs out is one of my biggest complaints, next to Bard already knowing about Smaug's weakness.

And yeah, where you want more, I want more. Where you want less, I want less.

Great film though, yeah!


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Dec 13 2013, 11:59pm

Post #11 of 28 (468 views)
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I dunno. lol I am with you, except with so much changed, I don't even know how [In reply to] Can't Post

they would handle Thrain with any kind of propriety now. A flasback to Moria and Gandalf finding him there could have been very impressive, however, the Bree scene says Thrain went to Gandalf BEFORE the mad attempt on Moria (mad because of a Maiar Demon residing there, not because of the damned orcs lol), so I really don't know what purpose it would serve anymore, other than assuring Gandalf that Sauron reclaimed the greatest of The Seven, but mention of them is now relegated to EE, even though we see Thror wearing it in the theatrical An Unexpected.

In Reply To
I agree with all of your post except I am surprised you did not mention the absence of Thrain and the key and the map plot hole.

I really found the James Bond Erebor moments a problem. Indeed Smaug shaking off the gold felt entirely right getting rid of that silly gold finger moment.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Salmacis81
Tol Eressea


Dec 13 2013, 11:59pm

Post #12 of 28 (511 views)
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I do agree that Sauron is a bigger reveal... [In reply to] Can't Post

...but I AM glad they got his reveal out of the way in this film, instead of waiting for next film. And it really was a highlight of the film for me. Loved the black "shroud", loved the "Dark Lord" form surrounded by the flaming eye. All-in-all I think they nailed that whole scene.

Another highlight was trippy Mirkwood and the spider attack. Great scene, although why Bilbo was still able to understand the spider even after he took the Ring off is beyond me.

Smaug really was amazing, although I do agree that the ending was a bit more complicated and drawn-out than it needed to be.

Thranduil, Beorn, Bard, Master of Lake-town, loved all of them. Legolas was much more grim here than he was in LotR (almost an antagonist), and I was pleasantly surprised by Tauriel. Yes, the glowing light during the healing scene was cheesy as all hell, but other than that her whole subplot was nowhere near as bad as I thought it was going to be. Alfrid's part was small, but effective. Bolg, well I wish they would have gone with the old prosthetic design, but he wasn't as bad as I'd feared he might be. Hell, even Azog looked better here than he did in AUJ (although I still dislike that he's alive).

The only issues I had with the film were that Beorn's screen time was FAR too minimal, Mirkwood was far too short, the Dwarf/Smaug confrontation was too drawn-out, and the fact that none of the Lake-towners seemed to notice the Orc attack was a bit odd.

DoS was less true to the book than AUJ (which I already felt was not that true to the book), but it also felt much more like it belonged to the same world as the LotR films than AUJ did.


(This post was edited by Salmacis81 on Dec 14 2013, 12:02am)


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Dec 14 2013, 12:03am

Post #13 of 28 (478 views)
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Ehhh. Arwen's heritage is VERY different, for one thing. Her descent is almost all [In reply to] Can't Post

Noldor and even Ainur. Also, this scene is just handled way more poorly. It really looks like an 80s comedy where the sexy girl is first encountered giving real attention to the nerd protaganist and he sees her bathed in light and slow speaking as she prepares to yield her body to his advances. It comes across as very amusing, which is the exact opposite of the intent. His lines afterwards are lovely, and Oin's comment on the privelage of seeing Elf medicinal practice is a gem, but the light moment belongs in some manner of R rated Epic Movie paraody, where the promise of her suddenly exaggerated lips is followed up on, NOT in the theatrical version of this actual, epic film.

In Reply To
wasn't it just something similar to that? morgul wounds make elves do that.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea


Dec 14 2013, 12:16am

Post #14 of 28 (489 views)
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Just got back from seeing it... Some quick impressions... [In reply to] Can't Post

The Good

Gandalf in Dol Guldur: Everything except Azog-- I really do not see the point in having him in this film. The Nine would have been so much cooler. Everything else... fantasically epic. Really excited to see the final showdown with The White Council.

Bilbo v. Smaug: Loved everything about this scene. Smaug was truly magnificent, and Freeman brought much hilarity to the tension.

Beorn: Too short!

Laketown: Mostly excellent.

The Spiders: Suitably creepy. Freeman, again fantastic.

Thranduil: You're right, not enough.

Tauriel: Really liked her. EL was great.

The Bad

Kili and Tauriel: Would have left the whole thing out.

Barrels: Started out fine, but soon grew outlandish. Too much cgi ott action bs. Could have done without half of it.

The dwarves v. Smaug: More ott cgi action bs that makes zero sense. Lose it all.

Overall, better than i thought it was going to be, and better than AUJ by a long shot-- the good stuff was way better, and the bad stuff was about the same.


(This post was edited by sauget.diblosio on Dec 14 2013, 12:19am)


cats16
Valinor


Dec 14 2013, 12:19am

Post #15 of 28 (453 views)
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Very well said, Salmacis. [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm with you on nearly everything you mentioned, especially the 'issues' section (not that I'm dwelling on the negatives, by any means!).

I'm really wanting to see this again, either Sunday or Monday. There is so much to take in all at once.


Yva
Rivendell


Dec 14 2013, 12:24am

Post #16 of 28 (451 views)
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I should probably just stop focusing on the healing scene [In reply to] Can't Post

because I'm ruining it for myself, and it's definitely not worth it.

... but, accidentally using the wrong take actually seems like a very plausible explanation for how it happened. Wink

And that's enough complaning.


In Reply To
and i didn't mind the idea behind the glowing bit, it just felt like they accidentally used the wrong take for it, lol, and the editing didn't work.



sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea


Dec 14 2013, 1:27am

Post #17 of 28 (421 views)
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This. [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
DoS was less true to the book than AUJ (which I already felt was not that true to the book), but it also felt much more like it belonged to the same world as the LotR films than AUJ did.



Arannir
Valinor


Dec 14 2013, 1:52am

Post #18 of 28 (420 views)
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Let me say this [In reply to] Can't Post

It is magnificent how hard and critical you can be on the issues dear to your heart and still be open for these movies and enjoy them.

That is quite some skill, Mister - many claim to have it but in reality fail at it. Great balanced impressions. Thanks for that.


I agree about the Nazgul... I do hope it was only to give Sauron the spotlight and because they will have a great scene in TABA. And please Eru let them stay in DG and not come North... the WC vs. Sauron plus the Nine... once the Nine retreat it is the full WC rejoined by Gandalf (after been let out of his cage by Thrain) against Sauron... which is eventually more than Sauron is able and willing to face at this point.


“All good stories deserve embellishment."

Praise is subjective. And so is criticism.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at."

(This post was edited by Arannir on Dec 14 2013, 1:54am)


Mad Hatter of Middle-Earth
Lorien


Dec 14 2013, 2:54am

Post #19 of 28 (429 views)
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Hoping for an epic White Council showdown [In reply to] Can't Post

I absolutely was enthralled with the Gandalf/Dol Guldur scenes. It was nice to see him use his power without restraint.

I'm just hoping when the WC "drives Sauron" out of Dol Guldur, it is just as or even more epic than Gandalf's skirmish with him. Maybe we can see Nuclear Galadriel "throw down its walls." Just kidding....kind of.

All in all though, Sauron's reveal was visually and artistically pleasing. For now, that remains one of the highlights of the film for me.

All you have to decide is what to do with the time that has been given to you...


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Dec 14 2013, 5:42am

Post #20 of 28 (387 views)
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Agreed at all points, as so often is the case. I am also both glad Sauron's reveal came in this film, AND [In reply to] Can't Post

glad that, if the staff of an Istari was to be broken as we have pretty much known it would from the very start, that he did it NOT one of the Nine. That option is now off the table and I couldn't be happier.

In Reply To
...but I AM glad they got his reveal out of the way in this film, instead of waiting for next film. And it really was a highlight of the film for me. Loved the black "shroud", loved the "Dark Lord" form surrounded by the flaming eye. All-in-all I think they nailed that whole scene.

Another highlight was trippy Mirkwood and the spider attack. Great scene, although why Bilbo was still able to understand the spider even after he took the Ring off is beyond me.

Smaug really was amazing, although I do agree that the ending was a bit more complicated and drawn-out than it needed to be.

Thranduil, Beorn, Bard, Master of Lake-town, loved all of them. Legolas was much more grim here than he was in LotR (almost an antagonist), and I was pleasantly surprised by Tauriel. Yes, the glowing light during the healing scene was cheesy as all hell, but other than that her whole subplot was nowhere near as bad as I thought it was going to be. Alfrid's part was small, but effective. Bolg, well I wish they would have gone with the old prosthetic design, but he wasn't as bad as I'd feared he might be. Hell, even Azog looked better here than he did in AUJ (although I still dislike that he's alive).

The only issues I had with the film were that Beorn's screen time was FAR too minimal, Mirkwood was far too short, the Dwarf/Smaug confrontation was too drawn-out, and the fact that none of the Lake-towners seemed to notice the Orc attack was a bit odd.

DoS was less true to the book than AUJ (which I already felt was not that true to the book), but it also felt much more like it belonged to the same world as the LotR films than AUJ did.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Bladerunner
Gondor


Dec 14 2013, 5:54am

Post #21 of 28 (370 views)
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I agree with your goods and bads... [In reply to] Can't Post

and would add the following:

The Much Too Brief
Bard, Beorn, Thranduil, the Master, Radagast

The Good
The light and sound show at Dol Goldur was almost exactly how I imagined the White Council confrontation would feel like.

Bree scene

The Bad
Legolas stepping on dwarf heads while killing orcs.

Orcs running wild in Lake-town and no men appear in its defense? That made absolutely no sense. and how did the orcs enter anyway?

The elves (Legolas and Tauriel) do not interact with anyone else in Lake-town?

Dwarves gave up way too easily at the hidden door.

Continuing references to Lord of the Rings films.

The Ugly
Azog continues to be out of place. Very discordant.



AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Dec 14 2013, 5:57am

Post #22 of 28 (376 views)
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Thank you, my friend. Had the Witch-King been the one breaking a certain staff, I might not have [In reply to] Can't Post

been able to reconcile myself, and might have issued a war declaration. lol HOWEVER, as it stands, I had a good time, and loved, mostly, the overall product, even if some moments left me angry or shaken... or shaking in anger. lol


I am pretty sure they will show up in TABA, but it seems backwards. It also raises my concerns that Gandalf won't get to face them down, whereas in the novels, he is the ONLY one for whom there is an absolute, specific account of him doing battle with all of The Nine!!! And it is EPIC, and he did it alone and forced his way out of it on his own. And he deserves to have that shown. My main residual fears are that the Nazgul will defeat him falsely in this next film, only for Galadriel to blast them and Sauron away. I love Galadriel, and I very much want to see her power on display, but I DON'T want her to make Saruman or Gandalf look like amatuers, rather than the mighty, though veiled, Holy, Mighty Spirits they Actually Are.

In Reply To
It is magnificent how hard and critical you can be on the issues dear to your heart and still be open for these movies and enjoy them.

That is quite some skill, Mister - many claim to have it but in reality fail at it. Great balanced impressions. Thanks for that.


I agree about the Nazgul... I do hope it was only to give Sauron the spotlight and because they will have a great scene in TABA. And please Eru let them stay in DG and not come North... the WC vs. Sauron plus the Nine... once the Nine retreat it is the full WC rejoined by Gandalf (after been let out of his cage by Thrain) against Sauron... which is eventually more than Sauron is able and willing to face at this point.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Glorfindela
Valinor


Dec 14 2013, 12:08pm

Post #23 of 28 (336 views)
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I agree with you on this one in particular [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Legolas stepping on dwarf heads while killing orcs.


Thought that was just stupid and could easily have been cut to add a few precious seconds to the Beorn sequence.

And in general, I loved the way Gandalf used his magic, and also the way Sauron was shown. Really, really well done.


AncalagontheBlack
Rohan

Dec 14 2013, 12:43pm

Post #24 of 28 (334 views)
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way to think about it [In reply to] Can't Post

Gandalf was able to stand at least for a time against the power of Sauron before his staff was broken and he was overcome. I think it makes it easier to connect this now to the scene in the RotK EE. Sauron was at his most potent as he launched the attack on Minas Tirirth and the Witch Kking had just been re-cloaked into a more powerful form and one could surmise was channeling much of his master's power in this confrontation. In Minas Tirith, the WK may have been the vessel but it was still Sauron breaking his staff. I think PJ may have actively been tying these to scenes together.

I have this feeling with other themes too. I think the prologue and the fact that Gandalf was imploring Thorin to reunite the Dwarves of of Durin is why Thorin is being hunted. Much the same was as Aragorn as an heir of Isuldur was a target and why his mother brought him to be raised in Rivendell for protection. Sauron is trying to eliminate anyone who could unify the free peoples in resistance to his plans of conquest and domination. This really ties Thorin's fate into the War of the Ring much like Aragorn. I think we will see more of this in TaBA as it's clear this is six movie set PJ is making.


Rickster
Rohan

Dec 14 2013, 1:22pm

Post #25 of 28 (334 views)
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No Nazgul [In reply to] Can't Post

I hope we will not see them again ... it is time for others to shine in the coming movie(s)

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