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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Boyens on Kili/Tauriel relationship

Shagrat
Gondor

Dec 11 2013, 11:07am

Post #1 of 21 (1381 views)
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Boyens on Kili/Tauriel relationship Can't Post

Sorry if this has been posted before, but I thought it interesting:

http://www.vulture.com/...erview.html?mid=imdb


Quote
You created a new character, Tauriel. How did you come up with her?

The Galadriel-Gimli story had these two races who loathe each other, and Gimli's dark, dark suspicion about elves and about the fact that he had heard of this woman, Galadriel, and he calls her the witch of the wood, but when he meets her, it all falls away. We always loved that story, and we never got to tell that properly in The Lord of the Rings. Professor Tolkien writes brilliantly for women, like Eowyn, but we thought the fact that he didn't write one for The Hobbit shouldn't stop us. We decided she should be an elf, a Mirkwood elf, and she naturally came into being. The dwarves are being captured, put in the cells, and all of the those moments made it obvious — she's got to be one of the guards.

You get the sense of why Legolas might not like dwarves, if a dwarf stole the girl that he liked.


Yes! We didn't set out to write a triangle, but Legolas looks at Kili with pure loathing — you know that look? [Laughs] But it can never be. But then you say, "Why? Why can't it be?" I suppose we're messing with the audience a little bit. But it's saying that the connection is fragile, but that doesn't make it less real.


This suggests they're not going to go with the romantic thing, despite perhaps hinting at it in DoS. If truthful, I suppose we should all breathe a sigh of relief.


Azaghâl
Lorien


Dec 11 2013, 11:22am

Post #2 of 21 (842 views)
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Worst scene in DoS [In reply to] Can't Post

Is by far Tauriel and Kili's "love" scene. Terrible cliche and very cheesy. Everyone in the audience was cringing. Hope it doesn't play out too much in TABA.

*Baruk khazâd! Khazâd ai-mênu!*


TheBeerBaron
Rivendell


Dec 11 2013, 11:37am

Post #3 of 21 (795 views)
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The healing scene [In reply to] Can't Post

The way he looks up and she's kind of girating almost makes it look like some bizarre coitus.


CathrineB
Rohan


Dec 11 2013, 12:10pm

Post #4 of 21 (737 views)
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I didn't mind [In reply to] Can't Post

I didn't like the idea of them either, but I don't think it was too bad. Kind of endearing. The cell scene was nice, but I do agree the last scene there was a bit... odd. They could've done without the "Arwen" light.


Azaghâl
Lorien


Dec 11 2013, 12:33pm

Post #5 of 21 (660 views)
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Agree [In reply to] Can't Post

The cell scene was really good. If they had only kept the affection at that level it would've been awesome.

*Baruk khazâd! Khazâd ai-mênu!*


AlatarVinyamar
Lorien

Dec 11 2013, 1:46pm

Post #6 of 21 (610 views)
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Disagree [In reply to] Can't Post

Nobody was cringing in the audience I was with. Its harmless. Its unrequited affection, like Eowyn's for Aragorn.


Salmacis81
Tol Eressea


Dec 11 2013, 2:24pm

Post #7 of 21 (564 views)
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To me, it kind of suggests... [In reply to] Can't Post

...that they ARE going with the romance thing.


Quote
But it can never be. But then you say, "Why? Why can't it be?" I suppose we're messing with the audience a little bit.


Sounds to me like they originally thought it would be a bad idea, but then thought "why not"?

On another note, I think that the same phrase "messing with the audience" was used in the AUJ EE Appendices for describing the decision to keep Azog alive. Wish they'd stop "messing with the audience", to be quite honest...


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea


Dec 11 2013, 2:54pm

Post #8 of 21 (512 views)
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Jeez... [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
You get the sense of why Legolas might not like dwarves, if a dwarf stole the girl that he liked.

Yes! We didn't set out to write a triangle, but Legolas looks at Kili with pure loathing — you know that look? [Laughs] But it can never be. But then you say, "Why? Why can't it be?" I suppose we're messing with the audience a little bit. But it's saying that the connection is fragile, but that doesn't make it less real.

I don't even know what to say.


(This post was edited by sauget.diblosio on Dec 11 2013, 2:57pm)


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea


Dec 11 2013, 3:00pm

Post #9 of 21 (473 views)
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Yes... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
On another note, I think that the same phrase "messing with the audience" was used in the AUJ EE Appendices for describing the decision to keep Azog alive. Wish they'd stop "messing with the audience", to be quite honest...


Please.


Radagast's Lead Bunny
Rivendell

Dec 11 2013, 3:03pm

Post #10 of 21 (471 views)
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Messing with the audience [In reply to] Can't Post

Maybe in TABA we will have a Bilbo-Thorin-Balin love triangle ?


Shagrat
Gondor

Dec 11 2013, 3:43pm

Post #11 of 21 (411 views)
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I don't know [In reply to] Can't Post

I thought by 'messing with the audience', she was referring to misleading them a bit with the hint of something deeper, provoking the kind of reactions we're seeing on this forum.


(This post was edited by Shagrat on Dec 11 2013, 3:55pm)


unexpectedvisitor
Rohan

Dec 11 2013, 3:44pm

Post #12 of 21 (413 views)
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i reserve the right to judge [In reply to] Can't Post

once i have seen both DoS and TABA.


Plurmo
Rohan

Dec 11 2013, 4:50pm

Post #13 of 21 (388 views)
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Boyens strikes again [In reply to] Can't Post

She trully thinks that Gimli is like every other dwarf. She trully thinks that Aragorn is like every other man. She trully thinks that elves are like every other races. She trully thinks that an elf woman is a human woman with better fashion designers and effective skin care methods. She is surprised that the emissaries of Thranduil to Esgaroth do not spend their days chasing beautiful girls and having half-elven babies and mixed families. What could possibly sepparate those peoples? Fences? Walls of ignorance? Oh, it must be racism of some kind? If the elves are not mating with the dwarves, that's because Thranduil the blonde has imposed some form of Jim Raven segregation laws. Send cardinal sir McKellen of the church of holywood with a rainbow coalition to put Thranduil in his place. If that doesn't work, let's wage humanitarian war and carpetbomb the elves and their racist ways to oblivion, saving them from themselves.

The idea is that every people is the same, that every people must be brought together and that every people must suffer the same fate. One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.


(This post was edited by Altaira on Dec 11 2013, 5:18pm)


RosieLass
Valinor


Dec 11 2013, 5:13pm

Post #14 of 21 (351 views)
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They didn't get Eowyn and Aragorn right, either. [In reply to] Can't Post

Instead of having her worship an unattainable ideal, they turned Eowyn into a sloppy teenage crush.

"BOTH [political] extremes are dangerous. But more dangerous are team fanboys who think all the extremists are on the OTHER side." (CNN reader comment)

It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


tarasaurus
Rohan


Dec 11 2013, 6:03pm

Post #15 of 21 (322 views)
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See, I'm staying open minded... [In reply to] Can't Post

but when the creators word it like that, it makes me roll my eyes and have less hope in new created character. Aaaagh.


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Dec 11 2013, 7:02pm

Post #16 of 21 (295 views)
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Doesn't this undermine the entire point of the Gimli/Galadriel attraction? [In reply to] Can't Post

The point of the Gimli/Galadriel attraction was to show how powerful Galadriel really is. Even a dwarf succumbed to her beauty. If you have a dwarf falling in love with a lowly silvan elf, then doesn't this completely throw that concept out the window? Crazy

I haven't seen it yet, and hope it works. I was always open minded toward Tauriel, but since the premier I've really begun to hate her.


Eowyn of Penns Woods
Valinor


Dec 11 2013, 7:05pm

Post #17 of 21 (283 views)
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If by that you mean... [In reply to] Can't Post

that you don't know how to say it in a way that won't get you Mod-smacked...then we have the same problem. ;)

**********************************

NABOUF
Not a TORns*b!
Certified Curmudgeon
Knitting Knerd
NARF: NWtS Chapter Member since June 17,2011

(This post was edited by Eowyn of Penns Woods on Dec 11 2013, 7:05pm)


Na Vedui
Rohan


Dec 11 2013, 7:34pm

Post #18 of 21 (280 views)
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Oddly enough [In reply to] Can't Post

I always felt that book-Eowyn's thing for Aragorn did play exactly the role for her that teenage crushes do - not swooning over pop-stars stuff but more the kind of same-sex crushes on an admired role-model. (If she'd been at a girls' boarding school it might have been the games-mistress!)
She has no female example who embodies her values and longings for action and courage in battle, so finds her inspiration in a man. Of course the fact that he is a man, with all the conventional assumptions around such a relationship, muddies the waters somewhat, not least for Eowyn herself, but isn't necessarily the nub of the matter.
This is one reason why I don't have trouble with her fairly swift attachment to Faramir as some do; a feeling that it wasn't so much a case of a realistic hope replacing a hopeless adoration, but of two different kinds of attachments and stages in growing up.


marillaraina
Rohan


Dec 11 2013, 8:38pm

Post #19 of 21 (256 views)
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subject [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
The point of the Gimli/Galadriel attraction was to show how powerful Galadriel really is. Even a dwarf succumbed to her beauty. If you have a dwarf falling in love with a lowly silvan elf, then doesn't this completely throw that concept out the window? Crazy

I haven't seen it yet, and hope it works. I was always open minded toward Tauriel, but since the premier I've really begun to hate her.


Well they are two different types of love, one based on ethereal power, one based on more mundane things.


sarucane
The Shire

Dec 17 2013, 2:54am

Post #20 of 21 (135 views)
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Racial Politics [In reply to] Can't Post

The implied answer to "Why can't it be?" is dwarf vs. elf. Can't happen. Funnily enough, it's about the same with Legoals--Tharanduil laid down an unequivocal law on that.
But then the question, of course, is why not? Well, because there are racial taboos at stake.
This is looking under those racial taboos, and moving beyond Kili, Legolas, or Tauriel as simply representations of their races. It's looking at individuals operating within these structures of politics, history, and prejudice.


marillaraina
Rohan


Dec 17 2013, 5:20am

Post #21 of 21 (130 views)
Shortcut
subject [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
The implied answer to "Why can't it be?" is dwarf vs. elf. Can't happen. Funnily enough, it's about the same with Legoals--Tharanduil laid down an unequivocal law on that.
But then the question, of course, is why not? Well, because there are racial taboos at stake.
This is looking under those racial taboos, and moving beyond Kili, Legolas, or Tauriel as simply representations of their races. It's looking at individuals operating within these structures of politics, history, and prejudice.


I agree, I think it's fascinating and am sort of amazed at how some of that is just being ignored, these relationship don't "not serve a purpose" IMO they serve a purpose that really ties very closely to the main themes and ideas in the story, a sort of parallel.

 
 

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