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DavidDevant
Lorien
Dec 9 2013, 9:39pm
Post #76 of 178
(642 views)
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Or at least I can't imagine how anyone can say that with any sort of insistence. It may be just as good, not quite as good, much better or much worse.
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Kangi Ska
Half-elven
Dec 9 2013, 9:40pm
Post #77 of 178
(627 views)
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We will see if the embellishment will be a bit too much.
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I hope I enjoy the Desolation of Smaug. With all my heart I hope it is a great experience. I hate wondering: why in Manway's name did Peter do this? I want to stay inside my fantasy. KS
Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.
At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
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Kangi Ska
Half-elven
Dec 9 2013, 9:42pm
Post #78 of 178
(625 views)
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are you an Elf?
They will answer both yes and no. KS
Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.
At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
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Name
Rohan
Dec 9 2013, 9:44pm
Post #79 of 178
(610 views)
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.......Don't read a book expecting it to be like the movie.
.......Don't watch a movie expecting it to be like the book.
Follow these rules and you will forever be satisfied (kinda).
My name is Name, which, name-wise, is a much better name than your first name, last name, or name's name could ever plan on naming themselves.
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DanielLB
Immortal
Dec 9 2013, 9:45pm
Post #80 of 178
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I was agreeing that the films would have been just as good and as popular had some of the finer details and plots been/not been included/changed. There would have had to have been drastic changes to make a different adaptation significantly better or worse. I can't imagine what they would have done to make the film a LOTR-style success (for the general audience) *and* a success for Tolkien fandom. You'd have to please both, I think, so that everyone was happy (look at everyone on here that are passionate about the critic reviews!) I just don't think it could ever compare. Making a film that's worse would have been very easy.
Or am I confused at what you're saying?
(This post was edited by DanielLB on Dec 9 2013, 9:54pm)
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Faenoriel
Tol Eressea
Dec 9 2013, 9:46pm
Post #81 of 178
(618 views)
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Tolstoy speaks to me that way...
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and Dostoyevsky, and Väinö Linna, against my wishes - we don't share all same beliefs!
But I understand what you mean. And yet, precisely because those authors "speak to my soul" I don't even expect the film projects of their books to reach the books' level.
There's something too deep, too subtle, too great and too gentle about Tolkien to be captured with the means of cinema. You need words for it, which is logical enough, as the whole man was made of love for words. How could pictures and sounds replace them?
But every word you say today
Gets twisted 'round some other way
And they'll hurt you if they think you've lied
(This post was edited by Faenoriel on Dec 9 2013, 9:47pm)
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DavidDevant
Lorien
Dec 9 2013, 10:01pm
Post #82 of 178
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But I would suggest that it's very hard to guess with hypothetical alternate version what would make or break them, or make a small difference either way.
Sometimes adding a little different flavour alters the whole dish, sometimes not. My point is that you can only truly judge the meal you have eaten. To guess that you may have liked the other item on the menu more or less, is just a guess, not something you can really insist on.
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hobbitrunner
The Shire
Dec 9 2013, 10:22pm
Post #83 of 178
(570 views)
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One time I was on a break from school and was bored, so I decided to watch the LOTR movies.
BAM!
3 months later I had read The Hobbit and LOTR, and still have Unfinished Tales and the Silmarillion on my reading list.
I thoroughly enjoyed AUJ. Was it better than the book? No. Is any movie better than the book? Sometimes.
What I can say about the LOTR movie trilogy vs. LOTR the novel is this:
The books are fantastic, but a burden to read. Loved them, but I don't have enough free time to read and reread things of that density and breadth.
LOTR the movies? Watch and rewatch again and again.
Some movies do not surpass their books, but they can be a lot more enjoyable than them.
Sure, The Hobbit is no burden to read. But when I have some free time I'm more likely to sit down and watch the movies.
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Altaira
Superuser
Dec 9 2013, 10:30pm
Post #84 of 178
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It depends on your definition of fun :-P //
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Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.
"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower
"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase
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Name
Rohan
Dec 9 2013, 10:34pm
Post #85 of 178
(546 views)
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One time I was on a break from school and was bored, so I decided to watch the LOTR movies.
BAM!
3 months later I had read The Hobbit and LOTR, and still have Unfinished Tales and the Silmarillion on my reading list.
I thoroughly enjoyed AUJ. Was it better than the book? No. Is any movie better than the book? Sometimes.
What I can say about the LOTR movie trilogy vs. LOTR the novel is this:
The books are fantastic, but a burden to read. Loved them, but I don't have enough free time to read and reread things of that density and breadth.
LOTR the movies? Watch and rewatch again and again.
Some movies do not surpass their books, but they can be a lot more enjoyable than them.
Sure, The Hobbit is no burden to read. But when I have some free time I'm more likely to sit down and watch the movies.
Perhaps the truest thing I've read on here in a while.
My name is Name, which, name-wise, is a much better name than your first name, last name, or name's name could ever plan on naming themselves.
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Ophelia
Registered User
Dec 9 2013, 11:09pm
Post #86 of 178
(548 views)
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I think you're being a wee bit dramatic
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It won't ruin it for any future kids.
I watched Fellowship of the Ring and The Two Towers in middle school and had no idea of the books. Shortly after seeing them, I found out there were books and I read them and I loved them and I still do now as a 24-year old woman. The movies are special to me and always will be, but the books are as well. They influenced my own writing and, in fact, got me writing. No one is going to forget them because of the movies. The movies are an adaption and will introduce children to that world, children that will then move on to read the books.
They're a gateway; not the end of the books as we know them.
(This post was edited by Ophelia on Dec 9 2013, 11:10pm)
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lurtz2010
Rohan
Dec 9 2013, 11:24pm
Post #87 of 178
(515 views)
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what are you worried about though?
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is it Tauriel? the dwarf vs smaug battle? more azog? Dol guldur?
I think this part of the story (east of the misty mountains) the changes will be more forgiving.
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Snowghost77
Lorien
Dec 9 2013, 11:35pm
Post #88 of 178
(517 views)
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haha yeah..after seeing the movie, they will read the book....
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And think.."What is this?...boooring". The dwarves are incompetent goofs, thorin is a complete jacka$#, it feels like its written for 3rd graders, and the great battle at the end...we dont even get to read about!!?!.
Its no wonder Tolkien wanted to scrap the entire book and start over.....then they will read LOTR and think wow!!! Why couldnt the hobbit be like that?
I enjoy the hobbit book for what it is...a childrens story with little characterization and connection to the greater mythos of ME tolkien later completed. I really wish nobody had persuaded him to keep it. I would love to have read that tale more in line with his difinitive ME. Ah well....
If some random author had written the hobbit, would we still cherrish it as we do knowing tolkien wrote it? Sometimes I think the hobbit is simply loved by association, not necessarily based on stand alone merits. (My opinion of course, i know some truly love it as is, and thats wonderful!) We love it because we love ME and the imagination it evokes from the lore that the rest of tolkiens works brought us....imagine if the hobbit was the only book tolkien ever wrote, how would we feel about it then? Not nearly the same I think.
Peace.
The path of the Warrior is paved in blood, sweat, tears and ultimately death. He weeps for the fallen, bleeds for the cause, and sweats till he dies.
In memory of operation FALLEN ANGEL and the mighty Heroes of SEAL team 6, the PJ's, SOCOM aviation, and all those who fell in the Tangi Valley.
- Task force Warrior will not forget you
(This post was edited by Altaira on Dec 10 2013, 12:02am)
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The Red Avenger
Rivendell
Dec 9 2013, 11:36pm
Post #89 of 178
(527 views)
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He legally cannot use Unfinished tales - he doesn't have the rights. However the cliff notes are there in the appendices so he can use that as a template.
About embellishments and changes. They don't actually detract from the core of the story. All the major beats are there in the movies. Bag-end, Trolls, Rivendell, Over Mountain, Under Mountain, Goblin King, Gollum, Out of the Frying Pan, Beorn, Mirkwood, Spiders, Elvenkingdom, Barrells, Laketown, Bard, Mountain, Smaug and they are in that order. If we wander of the path a bit but still hit these marks then that is not changing the story. It is embellishing it. It's not like there's a switch around of scenes (like say The Golden Compass) or a completely new story with completely new characters (I, Robot) or they haven't made any of the dwarves female or cut them down. So what if they expand on the Elves. They are pretty faceless bunch in the book apart from the Elven King, (who is only named later in Lord of the Rings. So what if they invent a female Elf and give one of the dwarves feelings. It still doesn't alter the fact the Dwarves end up at Laketown or at the Mountain. So what if there is a finale where Thorin and the dwarves face down the dragon, he still gets annoyed and flies off to burn Laketown. It doesn't matter one jot to the story, not one jot.
I've been on Tolkien boards for well over 10 years now, one of the first on CoE and I've frequented TORN and TORC for that time. I just don't post much unless there are new developments or the films are about to come out. There are far too many people getting upset over nothing and mostly in the case of not actually seeing the movie before getting in a tizz about it. It's quite funny but the detractors are always the ones who want to be heard the most, although that does not surprise me.
Enjoy the books for what they are. Sheer Magnificence.
Enjoy the movies for what they are, adaptations of our beloved books. which on the whole are pretty good at the worst and absolutely brilliant at their best.. I enjoy them immensely and like you I know my Tolkien like the back of my hand. The difference is, I can separate the two and enjoy them in equal measure
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Tinkerbell
Lorien
Dec 9 2013, 11:46pm
Post #90 of 178
(532 views)
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For me, there's a real humanity with which the story is told (Tolkien). Even if ignominious
defeat were in store, the end wouldn't necessarily completely change
one's view of the characters. There is hopefulness in this. I think it's a testament to
the story the author gives, and even for some who might not focus as much on
the actual plot details, some more significant than others, I can conceive how
this 'spirit' of the book would be closely guarded.
I would think the transfer of this notion from the book to cinema, would be quite difficult.
Having a score along with other elements of film, it seems a real possibility of losing
the book's 'spirit,' despite a faithful adaptation. I think, to a certain extent, it's somewhat inevitable
that the film will differ from book. In some regard, I'd rather have a film production comfortable with
a story they believe they can tell that is largely recognizable as The Hobbit so far as plot and is inspired
by the more intangible qualities imparted by the writing and expression of the author.
Perhaps, all fans will have the treat of two compelling, enchanting films to come. We shall see.
I will admit, though, that it was hard for me to read in a featured production presser the
casting of good-looking actors to fulfill the roles of a romance sub-story. I just hope it
works within the story. Thoughts?
(This post was edited by Dwarvenfury on Dec 9 2013, 11:52pm)
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Snowghost77
Lorien
Dec 9 2013, 11:53pm
Post #91 of 178
(508 views)
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Some just cant get over the fact that PJ's version of the books in his head is not the same as the version in their heads. they are upset because they want to see their version on screen so badly. People understand that this might be the only film adaptation of our generation, and its not the vision they had in their minds.
My advice; if it bothers h soooo much, then go into the film industry and make the version youve always wanted to see. dwelling on it only makes it worse for yourself...you cant change anything. Move on my friends..(not intended to be aimed at the author of this thread or anyone specifically. ..only those in general.)
Peace.
The path of the Warrior is paved in blood, sweat, tears and ultimately death. He weeps for the fallen, bleeds for the cause, and sweats till he dies.
In memory of operation FALLEN ANGEL and the mighty Heroes of SEAL team 6, the PJ's, SOCOM aviation, and all those who fell in the Tangi Valley.
- Task force Warrior will not forget you
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morgul lord
Rivendell
Dec 10 2013, 12:07am
Post #92 of 178
(501 views)
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What about, oh I don't know, the fact that you haven't seen the movie yet?
(This post was edited by morgul lord on Dec 10 2013, 12:07am)
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The Red Avenger
Rivendell
Dec 10 2013, 12:13am
Post #93 of 178
(499 views)
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Can't wait for the faithful adaption. like this...
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Hah, you can just imagine it, can't you?
Bilbo - "The Eagles, The Eagles are here"
Thunk
Cut to black.
Bilbo wakes up.
Battle over.
Audience - "You've got to be kidding, you build up an awesome battle like that and then cut to black. Did you run out of money or ideas?"
or
Purse "Oo are you?"
Audience - Did that purse just speak? What the hell am I watching?
or even better.
Barrells fall out of the cellars.
Float...gently...down.......streeeaaaam"
Audience - is that it it?
Or how about
Thorin and co climb down into the mountain
There is no dragon, everyone wanders about for an hour picking up gold.
Audience - Ok, I'm leaving.
It would have been sooooo much better wouldn't it?
(This post was edited by The Red Avenger on Dec 10 2013, 12:16am)
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Glorfindela
Valinor
Dec 10 2013, 12:28am
Post #94 of 178
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Very good post – thank you.
I've always said that the books are one thing and the films are another, and I can comfortably separate the two and enjoy both. And PJ's films are adaptations – there are very many things in The Hobbit that would not translate well into films, in my view (well, unless it was a very simple film for young children copying the book directly, in which case I would not be interested in it).
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Name
Rohan
Dec 10 2013, 12:30am
Post #95 of 178
(489 views)
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It's a plot line for a children's movie.....big surprise
PJ's has a plot line of an adult movie.
My name is Name, which, name-wise, is a much better name than your first name, last name, or name's name could ever plan on naming themselves.
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The Red Avenger
Rivendell
Dec 10 2013, 12:41am
Post #96 of 178
(463 views)
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There were probably two idea's in concept. Do we do one film and miss out all the stuff that ties The Hobbit to LOTR or as we have a chance to we also tell the bigger story. You know it wasn't until I read the appendices that I realise there was more than one battle going on. I'd have loved to hear more about the battle of Dale or the attacks on Lothlorien. Tolkien only really gives us cliffnotes about these, He was so meticulous in tying things together he rewrote part of the Hobbit to make those connections. He expands on Moria and Erebor and the dragon in "Durin's Folk" and I can remember reading it and thinking Wow - this all works and it's so much richer than I thought.
That's probably what hooked me. I loved the book but the richness and history floored me. So when they said they were going to expand on the events off page but still written about, I got excited. Even though again these are very sparse in detail.
So embellishments I don't mind at all. Changes aren't really that as they don't actually affect the story. We still have all the correct beats in there. These events are merely a template and the story is a fairly simple one until near the end when it gets pretty serious. So bring it on I say.
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Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea
Dec 10 2013, 12:42am
Post #97 of 178
(480 views)
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Great post. Right on :)
Or
Bilbo: I am Barrel Rider...
Smaug: Flys off....
Audience: What?? where's he going???
Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13
(This post was edited by Ham_Sammy on Dec 10 2013, 12:44am)
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The Red Avenger
Rivendell
Dec 10 2013, 12:51am
Post #98 of 178
(462 views)
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I've always thought about this since Fellowship.
Audience - oh who will save them from the Willow Tree? Oh look there;'s someone coming..... it's....its.... a lunatic.... and he's..... singing...
"I'm Tom Bombadil, Tom Bombadillo. Bright blue my jacket is and my boots are yellooowwwwww"
Audience leaves very quickyly and very sheepishly.
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Fili
Lorien
Dec 10 2013, 1:20am
Post #99 of 178
(455 views)
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*Entire screen is black, audio only for 20 minutes*
Audience gets pissed, yells at the projector, contacts the management, and finally leaves.
“So comes snow after fire, and even dragons have their endings.”
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Snowghost77
Lorien
Dec 10 2013, 1:58am
Post #100 of 178
(448 views)
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are you seriously worried about what some random pre teen girls think???...
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Please tell me your joking, cause if thats sarcasm, it made me laugh....if not......wow
The path of the Warrior is paved in blood, sweat, tears and ultimately death. He weeps for the fallen, bleeds for the cause, and sweats till he dies.
In memory of operation FALLEN ANGEL and the mighty Heroes of SEAL team 6, the PJ's, SOCOM aviation, and all those who fell in the Tangi Valley.
- Task force Warrior will not forget you
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