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squire
Gondolin
Jan 16 2008, 5:01am
Post #1 of 6
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**A Knife in the Dark** 6. Map Time!
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I hope you have been keeping your sense of geography straight during this journey from Bree to Weathertop, via the Chetwood and the Midgewater Marshes. I find Tolkien’s sense of place and direction to be very clear in his writing, but that is not perhaps true of everyone.
Here are four different maps of this part of Frodo’s journey.
The first is from the official map, drawn by Christopher Tolkien for his father for the original publication of LotR, and reprinted more or less faithfully in all subsequent editions. The copy here is scanned from my 1987 edition.
The second is by Karen Fonstad’s Atlas of Middle-earth. Fonstad is considered by many to be the “official” cartographer of Tolkien’s world, because of the breadth of her scope and the depth of her research.
Next is one from the series created by Barbara Strachey in her Journeys of Frodo. Strachey is less well-known than Fonstad, but is a useful corrective for those who think Fonstad has a lock on re-interpreting the Tolkiens’ maps and landscapes.
Last is from a very interesting series by ICE (Iron Crown Enterprises) to support a Role Playing Game based on Tolkien’s book. Sorry about the low resolution!
A. Which do you like best? Why?
B. What do all the artists agree on? On what details do they most wildly diverge?
C. Is there anything that is missing from all these maps, that you think should reasonably be included or shown?
D. On what basis can any Tolkien mapmaker project additional details not on the “original” map?
squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Footeramas: The 3rd TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion; and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary
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Curious
Gondolin
Jan 16 2008, 4:37pm
Post #2 of 6
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A. Which do you like best? Why?
I like Christopher Tolkien's best, not because it is the best, but because it is "official." The others all speculate based on CT's map and the text.
On the other hand, I should note that CT's map doesn't show much of a southern loop in the road, which was part of Strider's justification for leaving the road. I thought the cross-country route was supposed to be a shortcut, but it doesn't look much shorter on any of the maps.
Fonstad makes the road loop south a bit more than CT, and probably comes the closest to creating a shortcut, although Strider's decision to approach Weathertop from the north makes the shortcut that much longer. Strachey creates a south loop but then has the party go far north in Chetwood before heading east. I'm not sure why she does that. The ICE map may actually be the closest to CT's map, but like CT's map it doesn't show much of a loop in the Road, and the "shortcut" looks like it would be quite long.
So of the interpretive maps, I think in this case I like Fonstad's the best, even though she changes CT's map a bit, because she seems to do so based on the text. And I know there are times when CT's map does not match the text (as for example when the Fellowship leaves Lothlorien and the Anduin is supposed to be lined with trees).
B. What do all the artists agree on? On what details do they most wildly diverge?
Most of them agree on the Weather Hills, although Strachey makes them more of a north-south ridge. Midgewater is in roughly the same place on all the maps. Strachey makes Chetwood stretch more to the north, and also has the party travel more to the north in Chetwood. As I said, I don't see why she does that. I like Strachey's inclusion of the Forsaken Inn on the Road east of Bree. As noted above, CT and the ICE map don't show the southern loop in the Road that Strider mentions in the text.
The ICE map is the only one that attempts to show Archet and Combe as well as Bree. Although Combe is on the edge of Chetwood and Archet is in the midst of it, I think I would interpret them as agricultural clearings on the map. None of the maps show such clearing in the woods. Staddle should also be on the map to the southeast of Bree, near the Road.
C. Is there anything that is missing from all these maps, that you think should reasonably be included or shown?
As noted, most of the maps don't show Archet, Combe, and Staddle, and the ICE map doesn't show any agricultural clearings around those villages (and Staddle may be south of the portion you have shown). Only Stachey shows the Forsaken Inn.
D. On what basis can any Tolkien mapmaker project additional details not on the “original” map?
CT's map can be altered based on the text, as I discussed above regarding the southern loop in the Road, or the example of trees lining the Anduin near Lothlorien, or the absence of Archet, Combe, and Staddle. The text is more authorative than CT's map, which is not a detailed topographical map.
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visualweasel
Nargothrond
Jan 16 2008, 7:50pm
Post #3 of 6
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I like Christopher Tolkien's best, not because it is the best, but because it is "official."
I feel the same way, but I would also point out that Christopher's map isn't canon on quite the same order as Tolkien's own words. Curious, you sort of said that in your answer to (D.), but I've always felt that Christopher exercised his own creativity (under direction, but how close?) in drawing the map. How could he not? Therefore, he becomes an active collaborator in the sub-creation of Middle-earth. In a way, this was an early hint at the role he would take on in editing The Silmarillion (and The Children of Húrin).
I also enjoy Fonstad and Strachey and have found uses for both (including something here on the Reading Room not that long ago).
Jason Fisher
Lingwë - Musings of a Fish
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elentari3018
Nargothrond
Jan 20 2008, 4:03am
Post #4 of 6
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I've seen Fonstad's map before but not the others and it's quite fascinating to see the differences and similarities between them~
Does Starchey have her own book out on maps too and is it available to buy?
Thanks squire~
"By Elbereth and Luthien the fair, you shall have neither the Ring nor me!" ~Frodo
"And then Gandalf arose and bid all men rise, and they rose, and he said: 'Here is a last hail ere the feast endeth. Last but not least. For I name now those who shall not be forgotten and without whose valour nought else that was done would have availed; and I name before you all Frodo of the Shire and Samwise his servant. And the bards and the minstrels should give them new names: Bronwe athan Harthad and Harthad Uluithiad , Endurance beyond Hope and Hope Unquenchable.." ~Gandalf, The End of the Third Age , from The History of Middle Earth series
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a.s.
Doriath
Jan 22 2008, 1:30am
Post #5 of 6
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Strachey's "Journeys of Frodo"
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Barbara Strachey wrote the book called "The Journeys of Frodo" from which squire copied that map. I have the older edition, and I don't know if the newer edition has any changes that make one better than the other (maybe someone can comment). I see both editions are available in "used" copies at Amazon. Probably from lots of other used book sellers.
I don't know if you can still buy a new copy, but a used copy is well worth it. I usually pull out my copy when anyone here talks about directions, miles travelled, etc, because I have such a hard time keeping track of stuff like that. I like Fonstad's Atlas, too, and often look at that when I want to see a "big picture".
a.s.
"an seileachan"
"And we must all bring Provisions."
"Bring what ?"
"Things to eat."
"Oh!" said Pooh happily. "I thought you said Provisions.
I'll go and tell them." And he stumped off.
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N.E. Brigand
Gondolin
Mar 9 2008, 10:10pm
Post #6 of 6
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Nasmith, Lee, Howe, Fonstad -- the big four?
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A. Which do you like best? Why?
The Iron Crown map is too small here to read clearly, but I like that it is full color, simply as a variation on the others. Likewise I enjoy the cover of my recently acquired copy of Strachey’s book –the fields of Buckland– though the maps in that book are only in black and red (oddly, your scan omits the red). Speaking of the entire works and not just the bits you copy here, I like Christopher Tolkien’s map for its close relation to Tolkien’s text, and Fonstad’s map for its combination of careful detail and aesthetic (I prefer her more illustrative look to Strachey’s elevation contours).
B. What do all the artists agree on? On what details do they most wildly diverge?
Tolkien and Fonstad don’t show the Forsaken Inn; Fonstad is also missing the Greenway (on this map, but she does include both the Greenway and the Forsaken Inn on her larger map of Eriador.) Strachey doesn’t put Archet in the Chetwood. Only Strachey really shows the bend in the Road. Iron Crown seems to extend the Dúnedain path (that Aragorn follows along the hills) back north to Fornost, which is interesting speculation. Likewise they add a matching path running along the east side of the hills.
D. On what basis can any Tolkien mapmaker project additional details not on the “original” map?
Where Tolkien’s text contradicts his map, or where his map lacks the detail to show what’s in the text, it can be very helpful for readers to see a map with additional detail, particularly for those readers who don’t have a good head for geography. I like seeing others’ maps of Middle-earth, just as I enjoy seeing others’ illustrations of scenes from Tolkien’s works: you simply have to remember that Karen Fonstad’s maps are no more authoritative than Ted Nasmith’s paintings.
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We're discussing The Lord of the Rings in the Reading Room, Oct. 15, 2007 - Mar. 22, 2009!
Join us Mar. 3-10 for "Lothlórien".
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