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Gandalf and the ring

benjamin75
Registered User

Dec 2 2013, 10:59pm

Post #1 of 8 (196 views)
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Gandalf and the ring Can't Post

when does Gandalf find out about the ring? It's been ages since I've read the hobbit and the lotrs books but I thought he learnt that Bilbo had it at the end of the hobbit? It always confuses me because I think Gandalf knows about it but then rushes off to Gondor in FOTR, any help?


Bladerunner
Gondor


Dec 3 2013, 12:28am

Post #2 of 8 (112 views)
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Bilbo told most of the dwarves after their escape from the spiders in Mirkwood. [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't recall if Bilbo ever told Gandalf about the ring during "The Hobbit."



Elizabeth
Valinor


Dec 3 2013, 1:45am

Post #3 of 8 (118 views)
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There are many magic rings in Middle Earth... [In reply to] Can't Post

He knew there was a ring, but not until LotR did he figure out it was The Ring. It's worth re-reading The Shadow of the Past (FotR) for the whole story.








ImetLEGOLAS
Rivendell


Dec 3 2013, 2:00am

Post #4 of 8 (103 views)
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D: [In reply to] Can't Post

imagine if thorn got ahold of it!!!!!!!

I MET ORLANDO!!! And Sir Ian Mckellen, Andy Serkis, Lee Pace and Peter Jackson!!! Elves taught trees!!!


noWizardme
Tol Eressea


Dec 3 2013, 4:56pm

Post #5 of 8 (84 views)
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ah but - there were rings and Rings [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
imagine if thorn got ahold of it!!!!!!![Bilbo's Ring]


That's an interesting point! When writing The Hobbit, Tolkien seems to have thought of Bilbo's ring only as a handy plot device which allows him to become invisible. Only when writing LOTR did he, after a few false starts, hit upon the idea that the main plot driver for his new book would be that Bilbo's Ring was the One Ring of the Dark Lord. As part of that, he brilliantly invented the dilemma that the Ring had to be destroyed, but that destroying it would be near impossible - not only because of the hazards of getting it to Mordor, but because of the effect it has on people.


So Thorin doesn't try to "do a Boromir" and try to seize the Ring because Tolkien hasn't thought of that yet. Otherwise, yes, you could argue that would be completely in character with Thorin and the Ring as it works in LOTR.

The movies, of course did LOTR first, so the Ring is already established as its morally dangerous LOTR self - I wonder whether this "Thorin problem" will have occure to the script writers, & if so what they've done about it?

If you're interested in more about how the ring became The Ring, I really recommend this post by Squire. (Actually, I recommended all posts by Squire Wink - but this is one about ring becoming Ring)

Disclaimers: The words of noWizardme may stand on their heads! I'm often wrong about things, and its fun to be taught more....

"nowimė I am in the West, Furincurunir to the Dwarves (or at least, to their best friend) and by other names in other lands. Mostly they just say 'Oh no it's him - look busy!' "
Or "Hold off! unhand me, grey-beard loon!"


dijomaja
Lorien

Dec 4 2013, 12:00pm

Post #6 of 8 (46 views)
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as noted above... [In reply to] Can't Post

...the actual reason is that Tolkien hadn't thought of the Ring as anything special as of the writing of TH. The trailer for DOS has a shot in which Bilbo seems to be on the verge of telling Gandalf and then changes his mind. Non-canonical but clever.

The same explanation holds for Thorin. The "official" story would be that Sauron had not fully awakened and "activated" the Ring.


Cirashala
Grey Havens


Dec 6 2013, 7:16am

Post #7 of 8 (27 views)
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it could possibly be (book spoilers from TH) [In reply to] Can't Post

that the Ring was part of the reason that Thorin went completely looney over the gold...

I know that dwarves are naturally susceptible to gold sickness, but there are a couple of factors to consider from what we now know.

Thror held one of the 7. The dwarf rings did not cast dominion over the dwarves, but rather increased their lust for gold. It also beget gold, meaning that if one had a little gold to start the ring made that gold increase. Because of the lack of dominion as he had intended, Sauron grew pissed that the dwarves weren't dominated nor did they seek dominion over others-they just sought gold more.

Now, fast forward to the quest. Thorin had been exposed, albeit briefly, to Thror's ring. And throughout the journey he is exposed to the One. Could we not argue that the One could provide the same effect? And since in AUJ they proclaimed him originally to be a bit more about reclaiming their home and the treasure was just a bonus. However, Thorin's "dark side" begins to grow after the goblin tunnels in the book, and guess when Bilbo acquired the One?

Same time.

And when Bilbo became banished after the Arkenstone debacle, then the battle happens, and Thorin enters the fray, turns the tide of the battle, and redeems himself to Bilbo after. This transformation from being in the mountain and being out of it and contributing to the battle occured when he WASN'T around the One anymore (because he banished Bilbo). So basically with the One gone from his presence, Thorin turned back to normal. By the time it was back in his presence, he was on his deathbed, and the Ring would have done him absolutely no good.

Therefore I would imagine that the One contributed (or could have possibly caused) Thorin's gold sickness. Which makes it all the more tragic....

Race is meaningless. We all bleed red-no matter who or what we are. What matters is the heart. For each race has those with good hearts and those with bad hearts. You have a good heart. You do not deserve to die.


Rembrethil
Tol Eressea


Dec 6 2013, 12:45pm

Post #8 of 8 (12 views)
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Retroactively, yes [In reply to] Can't Post

At the time of writing, though, Tolkien had no idea of a malevolent nature associated with the Ring. It was only after attempting a Hobbit sequel, that he conceived the danger of the Ring.

It works quite well though, and is a neat thought. Just not one Tolkien may have thought.

Call me Rem, and remember, not all who ramble are lost...Uh...where was I?

 
 

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