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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Spoilers.... Deaths in The Desolation of Smaug
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boldog
Rohan


Nov 28 2013, 8:23am

Post #1 of 30 (1607 views)
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Spoilers.... Deaths in The Desolation of Smaug Can't Post

I was just thinking, after all the speculation of the many potential taba deaths that will happen, none has mentioned potentials for DOS!


Personally I don't see room for many at all, that is main characters anyway. Baddies, i.e Azog, Smaug, (Bolg?) will survive into taba. As for the goodies, I do believe we will see Thrain die in Dol guldur, which could be quite emotional. Then there is Radagast. I cant begin to think what will ultimately happen to him in this trilogy. But apparently a twist in the story occurs within this film, where Gandalf gets Raddys staff. So could he die? Either way I don't think that there is much hope of anyone dying in this film anyway. Thrain is the only Definite I believe.


I guess we should all be prepared for Taba. two boxes of tissues will do me fineBlush
thoughts?

"And do you really think, Thorin Oakenshield, that Bolg will have the slightest symphony for you? After he watched you hack his fathers hand off, so ruthlessly in Moria. Azogs defeat has brought nothing to you, only refuelled hate of his kin, upon yours"


painjoiker
Grey Havens


Nov 28 2013, 9:35am

Post #2 of 30 (791 views)
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I rarely cry during films, [In reply to] Can't Post

So I will manage, but that doesn't mean that I'm not moved on a very deep emotional level!
I have a feeling Radagast may die in either DoS or TaBA, but he may die off-screen, leaving the option behind that he just disappeard or went away on a crazy mushroom hunt or something...
Thrains death might be very emotional, on the same level as Theoden in TTT

Vocalist in the progressive metal band 5 Minutes Late
and the progressive doom rock band Mater Thallium


emre43
Lorien

Nov 28 2013, 10:06am

Post #3 of 30 (723 views)
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Theoden's death was in ROTK [In reply to] Can't Post

Wink


Lieutenant of Dol Guldur
Gondor


Nov 28 2013, 10:30am

Post #4 of 30 (726 views)
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I guess Radagast will become one with nature [In reply to] Can't Post

I think there is a kind of farewell at the end… perhaps he even transforms into a bunch of moths, butterflies and birds?

"There is only one Lord of the Ring, only one who can bend it to his will. And he does not share power."


Fàfnir
Rohan


Nov 28 2013, 12:03pm

Post #5 of 30 (658 views)
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Yes I think it's more likely than his death [In reply to] Can't Post

He is a children favourite, it would be terrible to make this gentle wizard die. But him becoming one with nature would a good explanation to why he is not there in lotr, plus it would be very coherent with the character as he is described by Tolkien


MomoftheShire
Rivendell

Nov 28 2013, 1:52pm

Post #6 of 30 (568 views)
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Oh, yes [In reply to] Can't Post

TABA will require a LOT of kleenex. I think we should set up kleenex concession stands in theaters for that movie! We'd make a fortune! OR we could raise a ton of money for one of PJ's favorite charities - OR something!

Have actually considered how much it would cost to rent out a theater for TABA. Want to wail in private, if you know what I mean!


dormouse
Half-elven


Nov 28 2013, 2:10pm

Post #7 of 30 (640 views)
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Several of us have mentioned a potential death in DOS..... [In reply to] Can't Post

Smaug! Wink


Salmacis81
Grey Havens


Nov 28 2013, 3:31pm

Post #8 of 30 (505 views)
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Kind of how I see it... [In reply to] Can't Post

Up to this point Radagast is probably the most kid-friendly character in the story, so I really doubt they would kill him off. That doesn't seem like something PJ would do.

Besides, there a few options to explain why he was nowhere to be found in LotR. They could somehow indicate that he will become a hermit, or they could have the Council task him with tending Greenwood back to health. Things along those lines.


Bernhardina
Rohan


Nov 28 2013, 4:19pm

Post #9 of 30 (498 views)
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What about... [In reply to] Can't Post

... Tauriel? Maybe she won't be around for the Bo5A. One never knows with PJ Angelic

Boromir: One does not simply walk into Mordor...

Gandalf: FLY, YOU FOOLS!


(This post was edited by Bernhardina on Nov 28 2013, 4:20pm)


RosieLass
Valinor


Nov 28 2013, 5:26pm

Post #10 of 30 (423 views)
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Or they could just not worry about explaining it. [In reply to] Can't Post

He wasn't in LOTR because he was somewhere else doing something else.

Why does everything have to be in synch with the other movies?

"BOTH [political] extremes are dangerous. But more dangerous are team fanboys who think all the extremists are on the OTHER side." (CNN reader comment)

It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


Salmacis81
Grey Havens


Nov 28 2013, 5:49pm

Post #11 of 30 (402 views)
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Well it isn't necessary... [In reply to] Can't Post

...but I see no harm in doing it, as it shouldn't take any more than five seconds if done correctly. And it isn't as if it would take anything away from Bilbo's story.


Elizabeth
Valinor


Nov 28 2013, 6:32pm

Post #12 of 30 (426 views)
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One thing we do know about PJ... [In reply to] Can't Post

...is that he will milk every ounce of drama he can. The chance to have Tauriel at Bo5A is irresistable. She will do heroic & Leggy-like stunts, beyond question. Whether she survives or not is tbd, but I'm guessing not.








FaramirAndEowynMorningStar
Rohan


Nov 28 2013, 8:55pm

Post #13 of 30 (360 views)
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Frankly I am totally 100% certain Smaug [In reply to] Can't Post

does not die in DOS.

The Desolation of Smaug (as I have said before) is also the name of the landmark on the map, the area around Erebor and Dale.
I think (due to what I have heard in the music) Smaug is going to fly away and the DOS will be a sort of cliff-hanger but will end on a happy note because Thorin has his mountain back.

I am just saying... Wink

..The Lord of Silver Fountains
.....The King of Carven Stone
..The King Under the Mountain
.......Shall come into his own

..And the bells will ring in gladness
......At the Mountain King's return
..But all shall fail in sadness
....And the lake will shine and burn


dormouse
Half-elven


Nov 28 2013, 11:09pm

Post #14 of 30 (287 views)
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I know lots of people are... [In reply to] Can't Post

I still think the opposite - I'm certain he will. If this ends on a cliff-hanger, it will be the first.

But whichever way it goes, we'll all know before too long!


FaramirAndEowynMorningStar
Rohan


Nov 28 2013, 11:13pm

Post #15 of 30 (269 views)
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Indeed, and I shan't argue over it now - it comes out two weeks tomorrow [In reply to] Can't Post

so we'll find out soon enough.
It would be nice to just have Smug killed by the end of DOS though. Wink

..The Lord of Silver Fountains
.....The King of Carven Stone
..The King Under the Mountain
.......Shall come into his own

..And the bells will ring in gladness
......At the Mountain King's return
..But all shall fail in sadness
....And the lake will shine and burn


Taladamir
The Shire

Nov 29 2013, 5:08am

Post #16 of 30 (208 views)
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keep it up dormouse [In reply to] Can't Post

Wink Seems to be a lot of people determined PJ's gonna throw us a cliff hanger. But for what it's worth I agree with youAngelic Two weeks and one hour to go for me anyway. Hopefully early reviews don't try to blow all the best kept secrets!


starlesswinter
Lorien

Nov 29 2013, 5:29am

Post #17 of 30 (221 views)
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The problem with *spoilers* [In reply to] Can't Post

killing Smaug in film two is that it would take so much time afterward to set up what TABA is about. To a general audience, killing off the central villain will leave a "what's left?" question in the story. I don't think there would be a drive to see film three.


(This post was edited by entmaiden on Nov 30 2013, 2:26am)


Elizabeth
Valinor


Nov 29 2013, 7:27am

Post #18 of 30 (179 views)
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The same was true of TTT. [In reply to] Can't Post

At the end, Rohan was triumphant, and the Ents had effectively destroyed Isengard, the most visible enemy of the first 2 movies. Movie-firsters didn't really know how much more was at stake, which is why they ended the movie with Frodo, Sam, and Gollum wandering towards Mordor reflecting on things and reminding the audience about the Ring.

So, I think that it's quite possible to kill Smaug in DOS (which I think would be appropriate) and still raise issues to be resolved later. Specifically, we could see the problem with the Arkenstone rear its ugly head.








Arannir
Valinor


Nov 29 2013, 11:23am

Post #19 of 30 (156 views)
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We will have Sauron... [In reply to] Can't Post

.... since he will probably not be pushed from Dol Guldur in DoS, we have a clearly continuing story there.

Plus it shouldn't be too hard to show that the death of the dragon isn't the end but the start of of many other events (for example, we could have Bard in rage over the destruction of his town and death of many citizens declaring he wants compensation from the dwarves or we could have Tauriel and Legolas leaving for Mirkwood to report back to Thranduil).


“All good stories deserve embellishment."

Praise is subjective. And so is criticism.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at."


dormouse
Half-elven


Nov 29 2013, 11:50am

Post #20 of 30 (143 views)
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I don't see any problem at all in setting up film three... [In reply to] Can't Post

.. without Smaug. It's easy. Smaug is gone - whoopee, dwarves have the mountain: RESULT!!

But wait. Armies are massing. Seems there is going to be more to this than the dwarves realised. It's not over yet.....

Come next autumn a new publicity campaign, trailers, TV spots, posters, books - the last every Peter Jackson Middle Earth film; the adventure that began twelve years ago ends here - of course there'll be a drive to see film three!


TheBeerBaron
Rivendell


Nov 29 2013, 12:02pm

Post #21 of 30 (133 views)
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Agreed! [In reply to] Can't Post

The trailers etc. will make it abundantly clear why people need to see the end.

Perhaps they'll even show a trailer for TABA at the end of DOS just to make sure! That might explain the differences in running time, might it not?

Either way, it should be fantastic stuff!

Got my ticket for midnight of the 10th Dec, so I'll be more than happy to answer any questions for people who have to wait longer. It's so close now!!!


Arannir
Valinor


Nov 29 2013, 12:30pm

Post #22 of 30 (130 views)
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The difference... [In reply to] Can't Post

.... in running time comes probably from the fact that the movie is not 100% finished a we speak.

But I agree with you that there is no reason why people could not get excited about the last one again.

Critics of the three movie split, however, might ask questions no matter how they do it... "The dragon is dead, why bother for another one?" or "The dragon still lives... nothing has actually happened". I am sure we will similar things one way or the other... several critics seemed to be decided that the three movie split was a pure cash decision.


“All good stories deserve embellishment."

Praise is subjective. And so is criticism.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at."


TheBeerBaron
Rivendell


Nov 29 2013, 1:13pm

Post #23 of 30 (118 views)
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Perhaps [In reply to] Can't Post

But ultimately, I don't think that it'll really matter what the critics say in that respect, and people will get amped up for TABA either way.

I still can't decide on what I think about Smaug's death. I kind of want it in DOS, but TABA seems a bit more likely. 11 days to go...just booked a ticket for AUJ earlier in the day as well. I figured it would probably be the last chance to see it in HFR so why not. Also it should be a fun way to get (even more) excited for DOS! -as if that was in the slightest bit necessary!


painjoiker
Grey Havens


Nov 29 2013, 1:35pm

Post #24 of 30 (118 views)
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Damn! [In reply to] Can't Post

My mistake x)
Wasn't thinking straight Tongue

Vocalist in the progressive metal band 5 Minutes Late
and the progressive doom rock band Mater Thallium


dormouse
Half-elven


Nov 29 2013, 2:00pm

Post #25 of 30 (101 views)
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Yes... [In reply to] Can't Post

thing is, for all that people keep saying, 'oh, but if Smaug dies, what will draw people back to the next film', I think the thing they're forgetting is the end of this film. That's what matters at the moment.

We're a year away from film three, there's no point selling it now. Sending people out of cinemas desperate to know what's going to happen next is not a good plan. It's frustrating in the short term, ineffective in the long, because in a year that intensity of feeling is bound to wane. People will just remember being unsatisfied with the ending of DoS.

What matters right now is having a satisfying end to THIS film. Just like all the ones that have gone before, DoS needs a build up of tension - climax - resolution; the completion of one storyline followed by the hint that there's more to come. And if that's done right, that, and effective marketing, will be the things that bring people back. But for now, the end of DoS is what counts, and I can only think of one scene strong enough to carry it.

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