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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
That terrific interview with Richard Armitage on the 'front page'
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Glorfindela
Valinor


Nov 25 2013, 5:51pm

Post #1 of 34 (1422 views)
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That terrific interview with Richard Armitage on the 'front page' Can't Post

He states about the Rivendell scene in which Thorin and Bilbo are overhearing Gandalf and Elrond talking:

'Actually, that was at the end of a much longer scene, which I played with Bilbo on those steps, where I talked about where I was born, and seeing fireflies on the roof; being born in darkness, underground; and then it cuts to that overheard conversation.'

What a great shame that the whole of this scene was not included in the Extended Edition. It sounds like a great character-driven piece that perhaps added even more depth to Thorin's character. I wonder why it was excluded?


(This post was edited by Glorfindela on Nov 25 2013, 5:54pm)


AncalagontheBlack
Rohan

Nov 25 2013, 5:55pm

Post #2 of 34 (786 views)
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future [In reply to] Can't Post

Maybe one day as part of the ultimate 6 movie set?


tsmith675
Gondor


Nov 25 2013, 5:57pm

Post #3 of 34 (711 views)
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That would have been beautiful... [In reply to] Can't Post

I remember when I first watched the EE, I wanted a scene with Bilbo at least saying something to Thorin when they see each other on the steps in Rivendell. I would have loved to see that... I really don't know why that would have been scrapped.

"Seriously, why was the scene with CGI dwarf ass NOT in the theatrical cut?!"


Ffnir
Rohan


Nov 25 2013, 5:59pm

Post #4 of 34 (726 views)
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It really seems more and more necessary to have such an ultimate edition [In reply to] Can't Post

The extended AUJ was better than the TC, but really not much, there it felt like too shy to give everything they had... Maybe the next pick-ups, that RA and apparently PJ expect to happen next summer could be pick ups for all three movies, in order to have real extended edition adding a real depth to the trilogy ? Maybe it's just wishful thinking but it really seems worth it...


xxxyyy
Rohan

Nov 25 2013, 6:10pm

Post #5 of 34 (672 views)
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I hope so... where also all the little problems get fixed too. [In reply to] Can't Post

You know:
1-bloopers
2-bad CGI
3-FOTR Gollum
4-anything else I can't think of, but that can improve the continuity/consistency of the esalogy.

There will definetely be a 4K edition, so there's still hope.


dormouse
Half-elven


Nov 25 2013, 6:11pm

Post #6 of 34 (665 views)
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That's exactly what I thought... [In reply to] Can't Post

It sounds like an interesting scene, I'd like to have seen it. //


Kim
Valinor


Nov 25 2013, 6:21pm

Post #7 of 34 (641 views)
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I was wondering the same thing [In reply to] Can't Post

That passage definitely caught my eye as well as that's my favorite of the EE new scenes. I would have loved to have seen the full version. Maybe they cut it because it was such a personal conversation, and at that point in the journey, Thorin wasn't really at the point of taking Bilbo into his confidence?


MatthewJer18
Rohan

Nov 25 2013, 6:22pm

Post #8 of 34 (647 views)
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I think the silent look between them works better for that particular scene [In reply to] Can't Post

They most likely cut it because Thorin wouldn't divulge that much of his personal background to Bilbo - at least not yet.


Thranderz
Rohan


Nov 25 2013, 6:23pm

Post #9 of 34 (615 views)
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Yeah [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree with that, there's a reason it was cut. However, I think there's some terrific acting from Hugo Weaving and Richard Armitage in that scene! It's a shame it all seems to go unnoticed at award ceremonies. Frown

I simply walked into Mordor.


Kim
Valinor


Nov 25 2013, 6:39pm

Post #10 of 34 (589 views)
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I'm really hoping [In reply to] Can't Post

there'll be some acting recognition of these movies. I really think Richard and Martin will blow it out of the park by the end of TABA. And I really hope Richard will get the recognition he deserves after putting in so much effort and energy to this role.


Yva
Rivendell


Nov 25 2013, 6:56pm

Post #11 of 34 (591 views)
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Was just going to comment on that [In reply to] Can't Post

"... end of a MUCH LONGER scene..."?? Where is it??

l did think about why it would be excluded. Maybe they didn't want to be too melodramatic? Maybe it would alter Thorin/Bilbo dynamic too much or too early in the film - because, going by RA's description, it does seem like a rather intimate conversation? Thorin keeps his distance, he doesn't talk about himself - it's the others who provide us with information about his past (Bilbo and Balin via flashbacks, now Gandalf and Elrond). He's not supposed to be appreciative of Bilbo's presence yet - what would possibly trigger such Thorin/Bilbo moment in Rivendell?

I would love to see this MUCH LONGER scene simply because of Thorin, but I'm not quite sure it would fit.

Edit: a few of you beat me to it, so just to say I agree with all the opinions Smile


(This post was edited by Yva on Nov 25 2013, 6:59pm)


dormouse
Half-elven


Nov 25 2013, 7:26pm

Post #12 of 34 (552 views)
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I like the idea that they might be doing pick-up shoots again.... [In reply to] Can't Post

... next year. It sounds daft, I know, but it means there will be more happening next year, and more to talk about. Otherwise next year's build-up to the third film would seem rather empty.


PredatoR
Bree

Nov 25 2013, 7:40pm

Post #13 of 34 (517 views)
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Ultimate edition [In reply to] Can't Post

I hope PJ will give us ultimate editions! first for LOTR series then Hobbit!

Just don't want these scenes will remain unseen forever!!!


Lost Hobbit
Rivendell


Nov 25 2013, 7:57pm

Post #14 of 34 (497 views)
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Well... [In reply to] Can't Post

...if this was really filmed, than it's not just a shame, it's just so stupid not to include it.


Brethil
Half-elven


Nov 25 2013, 8:26pm

Post #15 of 34 (459 views)
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Me too Dormouse [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I like the idea that they might be doing pick-up shoots again.... ... next year. It sounds daft, I know, but it means there will be more happening next year, and more to talk about. Otherwise next year's build-up to the third film would seem rather empty.




I'm enjoying the journey - as much as it means extra work for our cast! Tongue

The second TORn Amateur Symposium is running right now, in the Reading Room. Come have a look and maybe stay to chat!





DanielLB
Immortal


Nov 25 2013, 9:13pm

Post #16 of 34 (448 views)
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Could the conversation be transplanted elsewhere? [In reply to] Can't Post

Perhaps the team just thought it didn't sit right in that part of the film. Maybe during pick-ups they re-filmed this scene to slot in elsewhere. It would work nicely around a fire in Beorn's Hall. If Thorin believes all hope is lost, perhaps he even opens up to Bilbo while they try and plan their escape from Thranduil's Halls?

If that's the case, however, I'd have expected Armitage to have said so. We'll see!



Yva
Rivendell


Nov 25 2013, 10:22pm

Post #17 of 34 (374 views)
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I also think the silent look works better [In reply to] Can't Post

but on the other hand, the scene does look as if something else was going on there that we didn't see. Bilbo's frowned, disapproving expression surprised me, even though it's appropriate given what he just heard. To me, the scene feels very slightly "pasted in" (which makes sense, given it's just a small part of a longer passage). But it doesn't bother me too much, I guess that's what someties happens in EEs.

The whole scene emanates an intriguing tension beause both of them, Bilbo and Thorin, felt left out, not belonging, although for very different reasons. While the rest of the Company is terribly busy somewhere else doing all kinds of silly things, Bilbo and Thorin wander around alone. At one point, they meet, both realizing the other one is also feeling out of place. That could indeed be a brilliant character moment and a great opportunity for the actors to show what they can do with silence. I would be absolutely thrilled to see it.

Would that realization - that they share this feeling of being out of place, the surprise of the moment when they suddenly meet on some random stairs while "running away" from the crazy dwarves, be what would make Thorin open up a bit? I still don't think so and I still picture him too proud for that, but for sure I'd like to see more of this scene. The motif with Bilbo acknowleding he understands how does it feel to not belong also comes later.


The Grey Elf
Gondor


Nov 25 2013, 11:07pm

Post #18 of 34 (335 views)
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Very much in agreement! [In reply to] Can't Post

I love that SPJ shares so much in the build up to the actual release of the movie. It feels like such a perk! He makes film-making fascinating and the bits of info he shares on what's coming our way really stokes everyone's anticipation. How much would our discussions lose without that.

Welcome more children to Middle Earth. Support The S.H.I.R.E. Project!


Glorfindela
Valinor


Nov 25 2013, 11:09pm

Post #19 of 34 (355 views)
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That would be good, DanielB [In reply to] Can't Post

I think it would be such a shame if that scene were lost. It would perhaps make Bilbo and Thorin seem less 'detached' providing all the more impact in the final film.


In Reply To
Perhaps the team just thought it didn't sit right in that part of the film. Maybe during pick-ups they re-filmed this scene to slot in elsewhere. It would work nicely around a fire in Beorn's Hall. If Thorin believes all hope is lost, perhaps he even opens up to Bilbo while they try and plan their escape from Thranduil's Halls?

If that's the case, however, I'd have expected Armitage to have said so. We'll see!



(This post was edited by Glorfindela on Nov 25 2013, 11:11pm)


Yva
Rivendell


Nov 25 2013, 11:36pm

Post #20 of 34 (313 views)
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Good idea! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


daemoon
Rivendell


Nov 26 2013, 12:30am

Post #21 of 34 (301 views)
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Ds [In reply to] Can't Post

I really wanted to see Kili and Fili's mother. I think she deserved a cameo in the Thror's throne scene in the prologue. Frown


Kim
Valinor


Nov 26 2013, 1:19am

Post #22 of 34 (270 views)
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I was going to say the same thing [In reply to] Can't Post

and also thought it might sound a bit odd. Tongue More happening, both for the actors to have one final chance to work together on these films, and for us to discuss, sounds good to me!


Kim
Valinor


Nov 26 2013, 1:23am

Post #23 of 34 (293 views)
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The same thought occurred to me after my initial response [In reply to] Can't Post

and I think it would fit nicely into a scene prior to the escape from Thranduil's. It seems like at that point in the movie, there would be enough trust and relationship built up between Bilbo and Thorin for it to work better.

Here's hoping we might see it someday! Smile


Avandel
Valinor

Nov 26 2013, 2:01am

Post #24 of 34 (262 views)
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Think it depends how it was done [In reply to] Can't Post

Could see a scene KIND OF like GOT's Tywin "confiding" in Arya - or any scene where a "great man/woman"
is asked a question and has a pensive moment, and starts talking, almost to themselves really, in that the
one listening is no threat, and possibly usually beneath notice. Thorin doesn't seem to pay any attention to
the fact that Bilbo has also overheard about his families' issues. "Fireflies on the roof?" - sounds beautiful...
Thorin talking about that would have been beautiful....and highlighted the loss of all of it to the dragon.

Really intriguing that Thorin was "playing with Bilbo?" Because Thorin is so burdened, and angry, I love seeing
his "quiet" moments when things lift from his shoulders for a while. Think then we get to see what he might have been
like, what he could be like, if things weren't so harsh. And since I love all the dwarves sometimes
I think about all the stuff we'll never see, like what day-to-day life in "camp" was like for Bilbo, what they all were
eating, what did they all do around the fire at night - every time I see them all hiking in AUJ think their feet must have
been killing them (or maybe not, since they are sturdy dwarves.....)

Would have loved to have seen this - any way TORN could, yah, know, hint to PJ? I should not whine tho, looks like
we might (hope to) get to see Thorin and Gandalf meet in Bree, and I haven't analyzed for me why that is so important,
but think it so very, very cool - excited! And hope that all this other tantalizing footage (including the AUJ trailer scene
of all on ponies near a cliff that didn't make the cut, and Thorin/Fili in the grasslands, etc. will one day be on a super-deluxe
collector release.). And hear, hear for more pickups, too!


Avandel
Valinor

Nov 26 2013, 2:16am

Post #25 of 34 (259 views)
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Totally agree [In reply to] Can't Post

"The whole scene emanates an intriguing tension beause both of them, Bilbo and Thorin, felt left out, not belonging, although for very different reasons. While the rest of the Company is terribly busy somewhere else doing all kinds of silly things, Bilbo and Thorin wander around alone. At one point, they meet, both realizing the other one is also feeling out of place."

Just wanted to say I concur, however this scene was done - think it's poignant that the two are alone at Rivendell for different reasons - as MF has said, yo-yoing to and from each other......

DOS for me will be fascinating as the relationship between these two forms, as I've heard different things from the actors - that the relationship is very good, but MF has said that Thorin is also still hard on Bilbo - don't know what that means, in that dwarves are tough and "being hard on Bilbo" may mean he's just being treated like an accepted dwarf of sorts, or does he mean what we've all seen in the trailer, that Thorin is fully capable of putting a sword to Bilbo and/or sacrificing the burglar? But will the movie show Thorin being conflicted, no matter how driven he is, in that Bilbo saved his life?

Aaaagh, can't wait DOS!!!!! Am very grateful depicting these complex dynamics are in the hands of superb actors like RA and MF.

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