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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The *spoilers* ...Film 2? Or Film 3?
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macfalk
Valinor


Nov 23 2013, 7:08pm

Post #51 of 74 (310 views)
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As long as they figure out a way to *spoilers* [In reply to] Can't Post

 
stall Smaug's death for a while in TABA

Main villain dying 10 minutes into the movie won't work very well, I think. Maybe they should focus a lot on Gandalf & co at this time. .



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.

(This post was edited by entmaiden on Nov 23 2013, 9:57pm)


Rheged
Bree


Nov 23 2013, 7:11pm

Post #52 of 74 (317 views)
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Further evidence that *spoilers* [In reply to] Can't Post

he'll die in film 3 comes from the soundtrack snippets. "My armour is iron" seems to be the theme of the film's climax and at one part, you can clearly hear the theme associated with Erebor and the dwarves infused with the theme.

Now, if the climax was Smaug attacking Laketown rather than battling the dwarves, surely one would expect the theme either to contain one of the Laketown themes (either Bard's theme or Thrice Welcome) and/or to not contain music that is associated with the dwarves?


In Reply To
Main villain dying 10 minutes into the movie won't work very well, I think. Maybe they should focus a lot on Gandalf & co at this time.


He doesn't need to die immediately: the film could first focus on introducing Dain, showing how Thorin and co settle into the newly empty Erebor and building up his attack on Laketown. Also, I wonder if Smaug will converse at all with the Laketowners rather than attack them straight away. Maybe on his death bed he could utter a chilling prediction to the people of Laketown that even with him dead, the people are doomed due to the inevitable attention that his death will attract from foreign powers (such as the orcs massing at Gundabad).


(This post was edited by entmaiden on Nov 23 2013, 9:58pm)


Pousette
Rivendell


Nov 23 2013, 7:22pm

Post #53 of 74 (293 views)
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On the contrary... [In reply to] Can't Post

I think they should start up the whole thing with a big, dark scene of the destruction of Laketown and ultimately his death. They should be able to fill the rest of the thing with things leading up to Bo5A, the battle itself, partings and "Back Again". In any case, it seems like Azog (maybe with The Necromancer lurking in the background) is the main villain of these movies, rather than the dragon.


Joe20
Lorien


Nov 23 2013, 7:51pm

Post #54 of 74 (271 views)
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Agree. [In reply to] Can't Post

I have no problem with Smaug dying early on in TABA. In fact, it would fit with how the death is presented in the book. It is a catalyst. It is the trigger that sets off a heap of different things and as such having it early on would keep with that purpose and allow for non book readers to experience the same surprise that we felt when reading for the first time (well I did at least.).


Thranderz
Rohan


Nov 23 2013, 9:00pm

Post #55 of 74 (247 views)
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I think [In reply to] Can't Post

we all felt that surprise! I remember before reading it 'How are these dwarves gonna take down a dragon?' I originally had imagery of them battling on top of the mountain for some reason. When it happened in the book in the way that it happened, it was a great shock! Tongue

I simply walked into Mordor.


Wordofmask
Lorien

Nov 23 2013, 9:09pm

Post #56 of 74 (253 views)
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At first [In reply to] Can't Post

I want him to die in TABA but now I think putting Smaug's death Dol guldur battle and BOFA would be too much in 1 film. Killing Smaug at early of TABA is risky reminding an audience of Count Dooku. Hardwork for PJ and co to not make it like that. I hope they wouldn't use the ultimate solution "Smaug in BOFA".


patrickk
Rohan

Nov 23 2013, 9:42pm

Post #57 of 74 (240 views)
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Issue of Pacing [In reply to] Can't Post

Note that PJ likes some classic pacing slow build up etc. In DOS we will have 15 or so mins of a lighter session at Beorn's place. More vegetarian food jokes etc. Then a build up in action. If doesn't Smaug doesn't get it in DOS then in TABA we lose the slow buill up. We will have a big battle with Smaug; a slow bit of grieving (rest of dwarves getting back to Erebor, Arekenstone story) and build up of anger then another big battle (Dol Guldur is scattered throughout). It may work but will be tricky to pace (no place for levity in TABA except at the end when Bilbo gets home).


IdrilofGondolin
Rohan

Nov 23 2013, 9:54pm

Post #58 of 74 (235 views)
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Here is the Reference You and I are using [In reply to] Can't Post

The German magazine is Cinema and this is what they said:

"And when the White Council (Gandalf, Radagast, Galadriel, Saruman, Elrond) wields their staffs longer than the book suggests against the Necromancer alias Sauron, dwarf fans will be just as delighted as when they first encounter the fire breathing Smaug. However just as the battle of the five kingdoms [sic!] we will see the death of the dragon in the final film in 2014."

Does this mean that Smaug will in fact die in TABA and not DOS? Only time will tell.


hutch
Rohan


Nov 23 2013, 10:15pm

Post #59 of 74 (234 views)
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Right. [In reply to] Can't Post

and wouldn't they complain of another multiple ending syndrome? I'm still not sure what could be in TABA aside from BoFA if they're not doing the Hunt for Gollum.

Save the Texas Prairie Chicken.


hutch
Rohan


Nov 23 2013, 10:20pm

Post #60 of 74 (216 views)
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Gollum will def show again in TABA [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't know in what way-especially since the filmmakers pretend that the Hunt for Gollum can't be done (although a team of indies with 2,000 ponds made it happen), but Gollum will def be back. They're not hiding that fact very well.

Save the Texas Prairie Chicken.


hutch
Rohan


Nov 23 2013, 10:21pm

Post #61 of 74 (232 views)
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if it's film 2 [In reply to] Can't Post

'The Desolation of Smaug' will hold a double meaning in the same movie.

Save the Texas Prairie Chicken.


haldad
Bree


Nov 23 2013, 10:21pm

Post #62 of 74 (218 views)
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Why [In reply to] Can't Post

Why would they complain of multiple ending syndrome? Putting Smaugs death at the end of the second movie takes away an ending from the third movie.

As it stands now, the third movie will: wrap up the smaug storyline, introduce and wrap up and battle of 5 armies storyline, wrap up the Dol Goldur storyline, and wrap up Bilbo's story (with him returning to Hobbiton). That's way too much...with absolutely nothing being wrapped up in the second movie.


The Mitch King
Rohan


Nov 23 2013, 10:21pm

Post #63 of 74 (206 views)
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I thought... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

As much as some here hope that it will be in DOS for climactic reasons..well why would PJ invent that scene Dwarves vs Smaug if not for some sort of climax?


PJ added that scene because he felt that the dwarves and Smaug never had a proper confrontation in the book, not because they were missing climax opportunities.


hutch
Rohan


Nov 23 2013, 10:25pm

Post #64 of 74 (210 views)
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the filmmakers are always concerned with a lack of dying characters in each film [In reply to] Can't Post

Apparently that's the only drama they know, I guess. But even so, not killing Smaug in DoS would present them with the same problem they complained about of AJ no resolution, no major deaths. Another entire film of build up might cheese people of this time around.

Save the Texas Prairie Chicken.


hutch
Rohan


Nov 23 2013, 10:25pm

Post #65 of 74 (211 views)
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That's what I meant [In reply to] Can't Post

if they left Smaug in film 3

Save the Texas Prairie Chicken.


hutch
Rohan


Nov 23 2013, 10:28pm

Post #66 of 74 (201 views)
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Ha ha. What's the use of using the soundtrack as reference? [In reply to] Can't Post

Who's to say any of those songs will even make it to the film let alone guide the narrative? Pshaw.

Save the Texas Prairie Chicken.


hutch
Rohan


Nov 23 2013, 10:31pm

Post #67 of 74 (214 views)
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The Dwarves would appear to be so lame [In reply to] Can't Post

getting beat at the end of EVERY film. Angelic

Save the Texas Prairie Chicken.


hutch
Rohan


Nov 23 2013, 10:33pm

Post #68 of 74 (196 views)
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Maybe Samug should be the main villian [In reply to] Can't Post

but in the films its apparently Azog and the Necromancer.

Save the Texas Prairie Chicken.


Rheged
Bree


Nov 24 2013, 12:22am

Post #69 of 74 (168 views)
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I disagree. [In reply to] Can't Post

If the dwarves were to succeed in surviving Smaug and in driving him out of the Lonely Mountain, I would consider that a dwarven victory.


Cirashala
Tol Eressea


Nov 24 2013, 2:13am

Post #70 of 74 (148 views)
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well [In reply to] Can't Post

There has been mention of Tauriel healing one of Bard's kids...

Maybe we (and Bard) won't know if she'll make it or not at the end of DOS....so it doesn't have to be an actual death, but a massively close call.

As a parent myself, it would be akin to my child being in ICU after a drunk driver leaves their emergency brake off and the car hits mine after they get out. Even if she somehow miraculously gets healed, would I still be overwhelmingly PISSED at that drunk driver, and that's putting it EXTREMELY lightly purely due to TORn's "family friendly" rules....Mad

That, in my opinion, would be MORE than enough reason for Bard to have a personal vendetta with Thorin and co....

Race is meaningless. We all bleed red-no matter who or what we are. What matters is the heart. For each race has those with good hearts and those with bad hearts. You have a good heart. You do not deserve to die.


Pousette
Rivendell


Nov 24 2013, 5:03am

Post #71 of 74 (136 views)
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True! [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, we can't be certain yet. Although, I'm hoping more and more on said scenario. As long as they stick with the story from the book, where the dwarves doesn't know if Smaug is alive or not, or even if he really is gone.

It's not very likely, though. From the EEs of LotR we learned that PJ was kind of clear on his "people will want to know this/people will want to see that" policy, at least when deciding where to split the films. I think the idea of letting go of Bard and other tall people for an hour or so, is very far from what PJ will end up doing. None the less, I will continue to hope!


Pousette
Rivendell


Nov 24 2013, 5:09am

Post #72 of 74 (134 views)
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Excactly [In reply to] Can't Post

Good summary. It would be wonderful if they would manage to level with the surprise of the reader. There is still going to be a fair amount of storytelling and explanation to be done. For example, in the book the dwarves doesn't even know of his death until the arrival of Bard and Thrandy!


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea


Nov 24 2013, 7:50pm

Post #73 of 74 (100 views)
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I have a feeling it'll be film 3. [In reply to] Can't Post

Just seems to make more sense to me, regardless of the evidence (which i haven't really kept up with i admit).


Nira
Lorien


Nov 26 2013, 5:24am

Post #74 of 74 (61 views)
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At first I thought film 2, but it all makes more sense to happen film 3. Mind changed.// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

"Why, to think of it, we're in the same tale still! It's going on. Don't the great tales never end?" -Samwise

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