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boldog
Rohan
Nov 23 2013, 12:07am
Post #1 of 66
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Chrisopher tolkiens review of the hobbit?
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Has chris, had an interview or anything concerning the adaptation of the hobbit by Peter Jackson? I, will hate to know how much he is gonna be negative! Gee, he would have thrown his popcorn at the screen when he saw azog alive!
"And do you really think, Thorin Oakenshield, that Bolg will have the slightest symphony for you? After he watched you hack his fathers hand off, so ruthlessly in Moria. Azogs defeat has brought nothing to you, only refuelled hate of his kin, upon yours"
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AinurOlorin
Half-elven
Nov 23 2013, 12:10am
Post #2 of 66
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Well, about the Azog thing, could you blame him?
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lol Has chris, had an interview or anything concerning the adaptation of the hobbit by Peter Jackson? I, will hate to know how much he is gonna be negative! Gee, he would have thrown his popcorn at the screen when he saw azog alive! "Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!" "Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
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Salmacis81
Tol Eressea
Nov 23 2013, 12:15am
Post #3 of 66
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I doubt he's even seen it, let alone reviewed it...
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Arannir
Valinor
Nov 23 2013, 12:17am
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I think it is nothing that will make anybody happy thinking about too much.
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Critics of the movie or certain aspects of it will claim that he is absolutely right with his condemnation of the movies because xy was horrible. Others will underestimate his emotional connection to these works and downplay his opinion. I guess we should all argue from our own point of view and not pretend to know what either Tolkien or his family would/could/should think. By the way, I posted a link to a very interesting Tolkien Documentary from 1996 in the Reading Room... there is a whole section devoted to the critics' reaction to LotR back in the 50s. It is funny how similar Sibley's reaction to the criticism of Tolkien's work and the reaction of some fans towards complaints about PJ's work are. And also how similar the points of some critics back then, and points of critics of the movies today. It's all a circle ;)
“All good stories deserve embellishment." Praise is subjective. And so is criticism. "I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at."
(This post was edited by Arannir on Nov 23 2013, 12:19am)
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Elizabeth
Half-elven
Nov 23 2013, 1:39am
Post #5 of 66
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We don't even know if Christopher saw LotR.
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His interview, which was widely published, reflected negative opinions about making an "action/adventure" picture out of the books, but he would know all that from reading a few reviews or hearing reports from friends and relatives. When Royd Tolkien was at the ORC convention in 2005 he was asked if Christopher had seen it, and he said he didn't know, but it was unlikely.
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Blkcpt
Rivendell
Nov 23 2013, 1:51am
Post #6 of 66
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Only money talks....if he wanted the LOTR movies to done the way his father intended he would have made them himself. Instead he took the fat paycheck and decided to be a critic of other peoples film adaptations. Toilken himself said that a movie of LOTR would be impossible which is way he sold the film rights for cheap. Sometimes books just cannot be made into movies and some people can understand that and some people cannot
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RosieLass
Valinor
Nov 23 2013, 2:24am
Post #7 of 66
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That's not fair and it's not true.
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Christopher Tolkien has spent his lifetime helping his father get these books created and protecting his father's literary legacy. He has every right to be as critical as he wants to be.
"BOTH [political] extremes are dangerous. But more dangerous are team fanboys who think all the extremists are on the OTHER side." (CNN reader comment) It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)
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Elizabeth
Half-elven
Nov 23 2013, 2:27am
Post #8 of 66
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I believe that is a very mistaken assessment.
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We know a great deal about Christopher, from friends, relatives, and interviews in the past, as well as what issues the Tolkien Estate (legal entity which he controls) has pursued. Every indication is that he cares far less about money and far more about what he considers the integrity of his father's work. He is opposed to what he considers commercial exploitation of it. He has devoted most of his life to editing and publishing JRRT's written works, and it is his view that that is the medium in which they should be enjoyed.
(This post was edited by Elizabeth on Nov 23 2013, 2:27am)
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hutch
Rohan
Nov 23 2013, 2:52am
Post #9 of 66
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Christopher Tolkien is the only thing keeping integrity within the estate and from keeping it from being Disney-fied. Nay-sayers of CT are generally people who want to milk Tolkien's work into pop culture fluff.
Save the Texas Prairie Chicken.
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Elskidor
Rohan
Nov 23 2013, 3:11am
Post #10 of 66
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CT most likely has never seen it
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If LoTR had become one crammed together short cruddy film he would have complaint even more. The fact that LoTR got such an excellent director that made 3 extremely long and universally well loved billion dollar films, and still complained, tells me he wouldn't have watched the Hobbit. The fact he called them simple action films tells me he's a little out of touch in the movie genre, and nothing would satisfy him except his fathers books being left just as books, and no further adaption was ever done. The books will always be wonderful. Movies will always be different than books, but these movies have received by far more, much much more, love than loathing. They are in the spirit of his father, and have increased sales of his father's books by a ton. I really don't understand his complaints, and find his outlook of film adaptions highly annoying. The director LoTR could have got may very well have made a movie as memorable as Dungeons and Dragons. IF anyone remembers that.
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macfalk
Valinor
Nov 23 2013, 3:23am
Post #11 of 66
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How does Christopher Tolkien take the right to bash a series of films he has not even watched?
The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.
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macfalk
Valinor
Nov 23 2013, 3:26am
Post #12 of 66
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Not "just action films", but movies for "15-25-year-olds"
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Belittling fans like that was poor class - ardent purism at it's worst.
The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.
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Blkcpt
Rivendell
Nov 23 2013, 4:15am
Post #13 of 66
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That the supposed reason for del toro leaving was because C.T. Was holding out too long for more money? Chris is not his father even though he tried to be....if he couldn't be the great writer his father was the only thing he had left to do was to negotiate a price for his fathers work. Like I said...if Chris is so creative, he would have made the films himself
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StoneHex104
Rivendell
Nov 23 2013, 4:24am
Post #14 of 66
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He saw it... and indeed he didn't like it
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He thinks that PJ turned his father's work into some cheap action movie. Source: http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/nailbiter111/news/?a=72375
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Elizabeth
Half-elven
Nov 23 2013, 4:27am
Post #15 of 66
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There were many delays that added up to GDT deciding he had to move on. One of them was a suit by CT against New Line for breaching its contract. He is as entitled to expect companies to honor their contracts as any of us, that is not greed. Most of the money that flows into the Tolkien Estate actually goes to a charitable foundation. And I think your last sentence is not really relevant here. One is entitled to dislike something without thinking they can do better: another very good reason is thinking it shouldn't be done at all, which seems to be the case here.
(This post was edited by Elizabeth on Nov 23 2013, 4:28am)
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Brethil
Half-elven
Nov 23 2013, 4:28am
Post #16 of 66
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I agree, I don't think that is quite where CT comes from
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We know a great deal about Christopher, from friends, relatives, and interviews in the past, as well as what issues the Tolkien Estate (legal entity which he controls) has pursued. Every indication is that he cares far less about money and far more about what he considers the integrity of his father's work. He is opposed to what he considers commercial exploitation of it. He has devoted most of his life to editing and publishing JRRT's written works, and it is his view that that is the medium in which they should be enjoyed. Quite right, I do believe his thoughts for the integrity of JRRT's legacy has been a prime concern. I don't see him motivated by money and he is in the unique position of being the literary caretaker to such a complex and beloved author. There is plenty of room for disagreement about the use of his father's works without anyone being 'wrong' per se. Tastes don't have to be the same, and the personal connection CT has with the writing may simply never allow for him to embrace the films. And I think that is perfectly within his right. And I almost think being a steward of works which are so personally valued by him must be a heavier weight than if the author himself was alive to tend the literary estate for himself.
The second TORn Amateur Symposium is running right now, in the Reading Room. Come have a look and maybe stay to chat!
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Blkcpt
Rivendell
Nov 23 2013, 4:31am
Post #18 of 66
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Didn't want it to be turned into something "cheap" then maybe he should consider that it was written about wizards...dragons...magic...hobbits...etc. Sorry that it's not "shindlers list"
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Elizabeth
Half-elven
Nov 23 2013, 4:33am
Post #19 of 66
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It is not at all certain that he saw it.
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I have read the whole article that is excerpted at your link. He never said he had seen it (or had not). We don't know. As I noted above, there are many ways he could have gotten information about the pictures on which he is basing his opinion. I know, for example, that I do not want to see any of Quentin Tarantino's very violent films without ever having had to suffer through one.
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jtarkey
Rohan
Nov 23 2013, 4:35am
Post #20 of 66
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I enjoyed AUJ, but do I feel a different interpretation could have done the source material better justice? Absolutely. IMO, The Hobbit thus far is filled with unnecessary action and silliness. Though I liked a lot of things about it, I totally understand being disappointed. CT has even more reason. This is his fathers legacy. He's biased, but how could he not be?
"You're love of the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your mind" ^^^ That unnecessary apostrophe and "e" is due to the leaf itself. And this part of the signature was documented quite some time after the effect had worn off.
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Elizabeth
Half-elven
Nov 23 2013, 4:37am
Post #21 of 66
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There is cheap fantasy and superb literary fantasy.
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The treatment is what matters, not the subject matter.
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Blkcpt
Rivendell
Nov 23 2013, 4:44am
Post #22 of 66
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There's no doubt that the LOTR has been the best and most successful fairy tail/ fantasy film adaptation in history. For CT to say it's a cheap action movie is beyond a person that's firmly planted in the real world.
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Elskidor
Rohan
Nov 23 2013, 5:04am
Post #23 of 66
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There's no doubt that the LOTR has been the best and most successful fairy tail/ fantasy film adaptation in history. For CT to say it's a cheap action movie is beyond a person that's firmly planted in the real world. The movies should be seen as a tribute. A homage, not an insult. It's really quite mind boggling.
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AinurOlorin
Half-elven
Nov 23 2013, 5:47am
Post #24 of 66
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Really? I had been ignoring some of the more belligerent posts, but if you are going to say that the very material
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upon which some of the great early epics of human history that laid the foundations for literature and story telling as we know it are "cheap" because their content isn't "real" enough, I am going to have to take serious issue with your line of thought. Didn't want it to be turned into something "cheap" then maybe he should consider that it was written about wizards...dragons...magic...hobbits...etc. Sorry that it's not "shindlers list" "Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!" "Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
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ElendilTheShort
Gondor
Nov 23 2013, 6:00am
Post #25 of 66
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where is Pippin with his barrow blade, we gots a particularly dim witted troll that needs a slaying.
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