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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Chrisopher tolkiens review of the hobbit?
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boldog
Rohan


Nov 23 2013, 12:07am

Post #1 of 66 (1656 views)
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Chrisopher tolkiens review of the hobbit? Can't Post

Has chris, had an interview or anything concerning the adaptation of the hobbit by Peter Jackson? I, will hate to know how much he is gonna be negative! Gee, he would have thrown his popcorn at the screen when he saw azog alive!

"And do you really think, Thorin Oakenshield, that Bolg will have the slightest symphony for you? After he watched you hack his fathers hand off, so ruthlessly in Moria. Azogs defeat has brought nothing to you, only refuelled hate of his kin, upon yours"


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Nov 23 2013, 12:10am

Post #2 of 66 (901 views)
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Well, about the Azog thing, could you blame him? [In reply to] Can't Post

lol

In Reply To
Has chris, had an interview or anything concerning the adaptation of the hobbit by Peter Jackson? I, will hate to know how much he is gonna be negative! Gee, he would have thrown his popcorn at the screen when he saw azog alive!


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Salmacis81
Tol Eressea


Nov 23 2013, 12:15am

Post #3 of 66 (833 views)
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Haha... [In reply to] Can't Post

I doubt he's even seen it, let alone reviewed it...


Arannir
Valinor


Nov 23 2013, 12:17am

Post #4 of 66 (828 views)
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I think it is nothing that will make anybody happy thinking about too much. [In reply to] Can't Post

Critics of the movie or certain aspects of it will claim that he is absolutely right with his condemnation of the movies because xy was horrible.

Others will underestimate his emotional connection to these works and downplay his opinion.


I guess we should all argue from our own point of view and not pretend to know what either Tolkien or his family would/could/should think.


By the way, I posted a link to a very interesting Tolkien Documentary from 1996 in the Reading Room... there is a whole section devoted to the critics' reaction to LotR back in the 50s. It is funny how similar Sibley's reaction to the criticism of Tolkien's work and the reaction of some fans towards complaints about PJ's work are. And also how similar the points of some critics back then, and points of critics of the movies today. It's all a circle ;)


ďAll good stories deserve embellishment."

Praise is subjective. And so is criticism.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at."

(This post was edited by Arannir on Nov 23 2013, 12:19am)


Elizabeth
Half-elven


Nov 23 2013, 1:39am

Post #5 of 66 (785 views)
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We don't even know if Christopher saw LotR. [In reply to] Can't Post

His interview, which was widely published, reflected negative opinions about making an "action/adventure" picture out of the books, but he would know all that from reading a few reviews or hearing reports from friends and relatives. When Royd Tolkien was at the ORC convention in 2005 he was asked if Christopher had seen it, and he said he didn't know, but it was unlikely.








Blkcpt
Rivendell

Nov 23 2013, 1:51am

Post #6 of 66 (799 views)
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To Chris I believe..... [In reply to] Can't Post

Only money talks....if he wanted the LOTR movies to done the way his father intended he would have made them himself. Instead he took the fat paycheck and decided to be a critic of other peoples film adaptations. Toilken himself said that a movie of LOTR would be impossible which is way he sold the film rights for cheap. Sometimes books just cannot be made into movies and some people can understand that and some people cannot


RosieLass
Valinor


Nov 23 2013, 2:24am

Post #7 of 66 (736 views)
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That's not fair and it's not true. [In reply to] Can't Post

Christopher Tolkien has spent his lifetime helping his father get these books created and protecting his father's literary legacy.

He has every right to be as critical as he wants to be.

"BOTH [political] extremes are dangerous. But more dangerous are team fanboys who think all the extremists are on the OTHER side." (CNN reader comment)

It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


Elizabeth
Half-elven


Nov 23 2013, 2:27am

Post #8 of 66 (702 views)
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I believe that is a very mistaken assessment. [In reply to] Can't Post

We know a great deal about Christopher, from friends, relatives, and interviews in the past, as well as what issues the Tolkien Estate (legal entity which he controls) has pursued. Every indication is that he cares far less about money and far more about what he considers the integrity of his father's work. He is opposed to what he considers commercial exploitation of it. He has devoted most of his life to editing and publishing JRRT's written works, and it is his view that that is the medium in which they should be enjoyed.








(This post was edited by Elizabeth on Nov 23 2013, 2:27am)


hutch
Rohan


Nov 23 2013, 2:52am

Post #9 of 66 (664 views)
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Agreed! [In reply to] Can't Post

Christopher Tolkien is the only thing keeping integrity within the estate and from keeping it from being Disney-fied. Nay-sayers of CT are generally people who want to milk Tolkien's work into pop culture fluff.

Save the Texas Prairie Chicken.


Elskidor
Rohan


Nov 23 2013, 3:11am

Post #10 of 66 (650 views)
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CT most likely has never seen it [In reply to] Can't Post

If LoTR had become one crammed together short cruddy film he would have complaint even more. The fact that LoTR got such an excellent director that made 3 extremely long and universally well loved billion dollar films, and still complained, tells me he wouldn't have watched the Hobbit. The fact he called them simple action films tells me he's a little out of touch in the movie genre, and nothing would satisfy him except his fathers books being left just as books, and no further adaption was ever done.

The books will always be wonderful. Movies will always be different than books, but these movies have received by far more, much much more, love than loathing.

They are in the spirit of his father, and have increased sales of his father's books by a ton. I really don't understand his complaints, and find his outlook of film adaptions highly annoying. The director LoTR could have got may very well have made a movie as memorable as Dungeons and Dragons. IF anyone remembers that.


macfalk
Valinor


Nov 23 2013, 3:23am

Post #11 of 66 (653 views)
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Tell me [In reply to] Can't Post

How does Christopher Tolkien take the right to bash a series of films he has not even watched?



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


macfalk
Valinor


Nov 23 2013, 3:26am

Post #12 of 66 (647 views)
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Not "just action films", but movies for "15-25-year-olds" [In reply to] Can't Post

Belittling fans like that was poor class - ardent purism at it's worst.



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


Blkcpt
Rivendell

Nov 23 2013, 4:15am

Post #13 of 66 (637 views)
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Are you forgetting... [In reply to] Can't Post

That the supposed reason for del toro leaving was because C.T. Was holding out too long for more money? Chris is not his father even though he tried to be....if he couldn't be the great writer his father was the only thing he had left to do was to negotiate a price for his fathers work. Like I said...if Chris is so creative, he would have made the films himself


StoneHex104
Rivendell

Nov 23 2013, 4:24am

Post #14 of 66 (657 views)
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He saw it... and indeed he didn't like it [In reply to] Can't Post

He thinks that PJ turned his father's work into some cheap action movie.

Source: http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/nailbiter111/news/?a=72375


Elizabeth
Half-elven


Nov 23 2013, 4:27am

Post #15 of 66 (617 views)
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That in not accurate. [In reply to] Can't Post

There were many delays that added up to GDT deciding he had to move on. One of them was a suit by CT against New Line for breaching its contract. He is as entitled to expect companies to honor their contracts as any of us, that is not greed.

Most of the money that flows into the Tolkien Estate actually goes to a charitable foundation.

And I think your last sentence is not really relevant here. One is entitled to dislike something without thinking they can do better: another very good reason is thinking it shouldn't be done at all, which seems to be the case here.








(This post was edited by Elizabeth on Nov 23 2013, 4:28am)


Brethil
Half-elven


Nov 23 2013, 4:28am

Post #16 of 66 (582 views)
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I agree, I don't think that is quite where CT comes from [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
We know a great deal about Christopher, from friends, relatives, and interviews in the past, as well as what issues the Tolkien Estate (legal entity which he controls) has pursued. Every indication is that he cares far less about money and far more about what he considers the integrity of his father's work. He is opposed to what he considers commercial exploitation of it. He has devoted most of his life to editing and publishing JRRT's written works, and it is his view that that is the medium in which they should be enjoyed.

Quite right, I do believe his thoughts for the integrity of JRRT's legacy has been a prime concern. I don't see him motivated by money and he is in the unique position of being the literary caretaker to such a complex and beloved author. There is plenty of room for disagreement about the use of his father's works without anyone being 'wrong' per se. Tastes don't have to be the same, and the personal connection CT has with the writing may simply never allow for him to embrace the films. And I think that is perfectly within his right.

And I almost think being a steward of works which are so personally valued by him must be a heavier weight than if the author himself was alive to tend the literary estate for himself.

The second TORn Amateur Symposium is running right now, in the Reading Room. Come have a look and maybe stay to chat!





sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea


Nov 23 2013, 4:30am

Post #17 of 66 (580 views)
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I think there is a troll in our midst...// [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Blkcpt
Rivendell

Nov 23 2013, 4:31am

Post #18 of 66 (609 views)
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If Chris... [In reply to] Can't Post

Didn't want it to be turned into something "cheap" then maybe he should consider that it was written about wizards...dragons...magic...hobbits...etc. Sorry that it's not "shindlers list"


Elizabeth
Half-elven


Nov 23 2013, 4:33am

Post #19 of 66 (589 views)
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It is not at all certain that he saw it. [In reply to] Can't Post

I have read the whole article that is excerpted at your link. He never said he had seen it (or had not). We don't know. As I noted above, there are many ways he could have gotten information about the pictures on which he is basing his opinion. I know, for example, that I do not want to see any of Quentin Tarantino's very violent films without ever having had to suffer through one.








jtarkey
Rohan


Nov 23 2013, 4:35am

Post #20 of 66 (591 views)
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I agree as well. [In reply to] Can't Post

I enjoyed AUJ, but do I feel a different interpretation could have done the source material better justice? Absolutely.

IMO, The Hobbit thus far is filled with unnecessary action and silliness. Though I liked a lot of things about it, I totally understand being disappointed. CT has even more reason. This is his fathers legacy. He's biased, but how could he not be?

"You're love of the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your mind"

^^^ That unnecessary apostrophe and "e" is due to the leaf itself. And this part of the signature was documented quite some time after the effect had worn off.


Elizabeth
Half-elven


Nov 23 2013, 4:37am

Post #21 of 66 (610 views)
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There is cheap fantasy and superb literary fantasy. [In reply to] Can't Post

The treatment is what matters, not the subject matter.








Blkcpt
Rivendell

Nov 23 2013, 4:44am

Post #22 of 66 (593 views)
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Come on... [In reply to] Can't Post

There's no doubt that the LOTR has been the best and most successful fairy tail/ fantasy film adaptation in history. For CT to say it's a cheap action movie is beyond a person that's firmly planted in the real world.


Elskidor
Rohan


Nov 23 2013, 5:04am

Post #23 of 66 (568 views)
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Which is what is really crazy [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
There's no doubt that the LOTR has been the best and most successful fairy tail/ fantasy film adaptation in history. For CT to say it's a cheap action movie is beyond a person that's firmly planted in the real world.


The movies should be seen as a tribute. A homage, not an insult. It's really quite mind boggling.


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Nov 23 2013, 5:47am

Post #24 of 66 (571 views)
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Really? I had been ignoring some of the more belligerent posts, but if you are going to say that the very material [In reply to] Can't Post

upon which some of the great early epics of human history that laid the foundations for literature and story telling as we know it are "cheap" because their content isn't "real" enough, I am going to have to take serious issue with your line of thought.

In Reply To
Didn't want it to be turned into something "cheap" then maybe he should consider that it was written about wizards...dragons...magic...hobbits...etc. Sorry that it's not "shindlers list"


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


ElendilTheShort
Gondor


Nov 23 2013, 6:00am

Post #25 of 66 (528 views)
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Yep AO [In reply to] Can't Post

where is Pippin with his barrow blade, we gots a particularly dim witted troll that needs a slaying.

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