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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
I see fire *Spoiler Alert*
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StoneHex104
Rivendell

Nov 22 2013, 11:07pm

Post #1 of 28 (1119 views)
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I see fire *Spoiler Alert* Can't Post

As many have already discussed here the song 'I see fire' talks about the dwarves, so what if it is the last line of the film? If the dwarves that stayed in Laketown (Fili & Kili) hear Smaug's roar after he leaves Erebor, one of them sees the Lonely Mountain and, clearly, a person from Laketown asks one dwarf about what do they see (Obviously Fili wouldn't ask Kili since both have the same sight skill), and one of them stays quiet for a moment, with a face of shock and horror, and finally says 'I see fire', cut to 'Directed by Peter Jackson'.


Arannir
Valinor


Nov 22 2013, 11:15pm

Post #2 of 28 (577 views)
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Yes... [In reply to] Can't Post

... if Smaug dies in TABA it could be either Fili or Kili (or Bard) saying a similar line.

If he dies in DoS I would like it to be said by Balin or Bilbo, with the horizon shining red in the distance.

Kind of reminds me of a German movie about the bombings of Dresden in 1945... when the navigator of the second wave of bombers wants to give the pilot the course, the pilot stops him and says "I don't think I will be needing this anymore." Then the film cuts to the perspective of the pilot and through the clouds one can see the burning city dozens of miles ahead.

A very haunting image that would fit the burning Laketown very much.


“All good stories deserve embellishment."

Praise is subjective. And so is criticism.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at."

(This post was edited by Arannir on Nov 22 2013, 11:16pm)


LordotRings93
Rohan


Nov 22 2013, 11:33pm

Post #3 of 28 (497 views)
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Hmm sounds like a good ending [In reply to] Can't Post

The "I See Fire" would fit really well, I think, and then cut to the song start playing. Although maybe have Bard say the line?

Lover of Medieval Fantasy
"I know what I must do. It's just... I'm afraid to do it."


Lieutenant of Dol Guldur
Gondor


Nov 22 2013, 11:34pm

Post #4 of 28 (565 views)
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But (spoiler) [In reply to] Can't Post

Don't Kili and Fili stay at Laketown? That would make the cliffhanger even worse if in the last shot we see Balin (who obviously hasn't got the best eyes anymore... remember the scene with Bilbo giving him the contract in AUJ?) asking "What do you see laddie?" and Thorin answers "Fire... I see fire". Well knowing that his nephews and the other half of his company is still in Laketown. Credits.

"There is only one Lord of the Ring, only one who can bend it to his will. And he does not share power."


StoneHex104
Rivendell

Nov 22 2013, 11:36pm

Post #5 of 28 (508 views)
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Indeed [In reply to] Can't Post

But, the song describes the mountain in flames, the skies filled with fire and smoke... so I can infer that it's either Bard, Fili or Kili... since Smaug's attack doesn't start until TABA..


Wordofmask
Lorien

Nov 23 2013, 7:32am

Post #6 of 28 (308 views)
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A bit confusing [In reply to] Can't Post

About point of view in this song

It sounded really like from point of view of fili and kili at first listening but the line "If this is to end in fire
Then we should all burn together" is from Thorin himself (Trailer 2).


patrickk
Rohan

Nov 23 2013, 7:41am

Post #7 of 28 (304 views)
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Are you so sure it is in TABA [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
But, the song describes the mountain in flames, the skies filled with fire and smoke... so I can infer that it's either Bard, Fili or Kili... since Smaug's attack doesn't start until TABA..

...do we know that?? not so sure: the climax of DOS may well be Laketown and Smaugs' demise; there is nothing to suggest it is not. The song is not a clue for anything (it can be restrospective as much as prospective).


dormouse
Half-elven


Nov 23 2013, 9:47am

Post #8 of 28 (282 views)
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Why are people so sure... [In reply to] Can't Post

...that Fili and Kili will stay in Laketown?


Arannir
Valinor


Nov 23 2013, 10:23am

Post #9 of 28 (263 views)
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I guess because it was mentioned in some magazine. [In reply to] Can't Post

But these articles have to be taken with a grain of salt, of course.

However, looking at all the Erebor footage, we cannot see Fili, Kili and Bofur (and Oin?) in any of it if I am not mistaken, just in the photoshoped scroll.


“All good stories deserve embellishment."

Praise is subjective. And so is criticism.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at."


Olorin2607
Lorien


Nov 23 2013, 10:26am

Post #10 of 28 (261 views)
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Well because... [In reply to] Can't Post

what Arannir said. Wink


SPOILERALERT

Kili is going to be wounded in that chase with the orcs and elves and then has to remain in LT. Fili will probably stay there because of Kili.


(This post was edited by Nagini6 on Nov 23 2013, 10:26am)


DanielLB
Immortal


Nov 23 2013, 10:34am

Post #11 of 28 (273 views)
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EMPIRE is usually a rather accurate source of information. [In reply to] Can't Post

I can't think of anything they've mis-reported (in terms of The Hobbit anyway). If they say some of the Dwarves stay in Laketown, then I'm inclined to believe it.

Smile



Arannir
Valinor


Nov 23 2013, 10:53am

Post #12 of 28 (244 views)
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Ah, thanks. [In reply to] Can't Post

Forgot it was Empire :)


“All good stories deserve embellishment."

Praise is subjective. And so is criticism.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at."


dormouse
Half-elven


Nov 23 2013, 11:25am

Post #13 of 28 (241 views)
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OK, thanks for that [In reply to] Can't Post

If Empire is the only source for this, then it must be from something Richard Armitage is quoted as saying:

"The dwarves break into two halves after Lake-town. . . . Kili gets injured and has to remain behind so the dwarves break."

Which is slightly confusing, isn't it? "Kili has to remain behind so the dwarves break" - so, it's just Kili? But "The dwarves break into two halves..." That could be as many as six of them staying behind. Or seven.

So all we actually know is that Kili (and possibly more dwarves) stay behind in Laketown at first. But for how long? There's no clue to that at all. And he isn't likely to stay in Laketown forever, is he (or they)? At some point he (or they) surely has to join the other dwarves, and who's to say that won't already have happened before Smaug leaves the mountain? I can't count the dwarves in the scenes where they shelter from Smaug's fire but there are a lot of them there. And the tapestry banner clearly shows all thirteen climbing the statue.

I still reckon there's a lot more left open here than people seem to think......


Arannir
Valinor


Nov 23 2013, 11:31am

Post #14 of 28 (233 views)
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Well of course. [In reply to] Can't Post

We all just read the signs we see in different ways.

But the tapestry seems to be just for the sake of having all of them there.

In none of the moving footage can you see Fili and Kili (and I think Bofur and Oin) anywhere close to Erebor. Also not while climbing the statue.

But of course all things are open until we see the final product.


“All good stories deserve embellishment."

Praise is subjective. And so is criticism.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at."


DanielLB
Immortal


Nov 23 2013, 2:33pm

Post #15 of 28 (226 views)
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DOS climax ... [In reply to] Can't Post

I think climax of DOS will probably be the invented showdown between the Dwarves and Smaug. Smaug ends up thinking he has killed the Dwarves, and thus heads off to Laketown to get revenge on them for helping. However, the Dwarves actually survive the clash but have to look on, knowing that Smaug is off to destroy Laketown, with half of the Company still there. That way, the Dwarves in Laketown think Thorin et al. are dead, while Kili et al. think Thorin and co. are dead. Terribly confusing, but it does add twice as much danger to the Company this way round.

Kili and co. then leave Laketown to try and find the others. (And/or because they know Thranduil and Bard want their fair share of the gold, so want to take the Mountain for themselves. That would make Fili King under the Mountain --> might be a good plot point.).

As for the poster with them all walking up the statue - it's awfully photoshopped. And they needed to show all 13 (silhouettes) somehow.

Time and time again we have seen the same Dwarves at Erebor ... here, here, and here. Balin, Thorin, Ori, Dwalin, Bombur, Bifur and Oin (plus Bilbo).

I think the Dwarves will reunite at the beginning of TABA, with Kili and co. bringing the news that war is upon them.



(This post was edited by DanielLB on Nov 23 2013, 2:35pm)


dormouse
Half-elven


Nov 23 2013, 3:06pm

Post #16 of 28 (197 views)
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Well, yes, everything you say.... [In reply to] Can't Post

But I still can't see DOS ending that way. It's a cliff-hanger; that would be a break with the pattern followed in all the other films - and frustrating to the audience who then have to wait a year to find out what happens next.

Or are you including Smaug's attack on Laketown in DOS? If you are then yes, maybe that's how it will go. But I'm sure Smaug and Laketown will be the real climax of DOS. It's such a huge scene - I just can't see them throwing it away at the beginning of TABA. And it's there, implied in Bard's dialogue with Thorin and in his prophecy. You just don't write lines like that into a film unless you're actually going to make them happen.

Well, we'll see before too long! It's incredibly clever of them, I think, that at this stage in a story we all know inside out, upside down and backwards, none of us really knows where this is going.


Olorin2607
Lorien


Nov 23 2013, 3:16pm

Post #17 of 28 (192 views)
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Unless theres a third film in which it will resolve. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

And it's there, implied in Bard's dialogue with Thorin and in his prophecy. You just don't write lines like that into a film unless you're actually going to make them happen.



(This post was edited by Nagini6 on Nov 23 2013, 3:17pm)


dormouse
Half-elven


Nov 23 2013, 3:20pm

Post #18 of 28 (187 views)
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Sorry, I didn't qualify the statement because the qualification seemed obvious [In reply to] Can't Post

Unless you're actually going to make them happen while the audience still remembers hearing them! Wink


Olorin2607
Lorien


Nov 23 2013, 3:22pm

Post #19 of 28 (186 views)
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It's sad.. [In reply to] Can't Post

..knowing you will be frustrated/disappointed with DOS when what you wish will happen does not.


dormouse
Half-elven


Nov 23 2013, 3:54pm

Post #20 of 28 (184 views)
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Some of you people are funny... [In reply to] Can't Post

Why on earth should I be frustrated or disappointed if the film doesn't play out the way I expect it to? Will you be?

For goodness sake, I'll be sitting in a cinema watching a film I've waited years to see and completely lost in whatever is happening in front of me. Because whatever it is it will be beautiful, breathtaking, more spectacular than anything I can imagine right now, and all set to Howard Shore's music. What is there to be disappointed about in that?

Look, if you're so wedded to your own ideas that you can't accept anything different, let me explain how it works:

For sure, right now I'm reading all the hints and clues, setting them into the context of what I already know about the book and the previous films and predicting how I think it will go, same as you and everyone else here. But when I go to watch the film I set all that aside. I don't go to see my ideas play out onscreen. I don't go to see which of us was right. I go to let Peter Jackson & co tell me the story, in whatever way they've chosen. I won't be analysing, I'll be watching.

The only thing that could frustrate or disappoint me is if the projector breaks down.

So do please save your sympathy, I'll be OK (and it looks as if you might be needing it yourself! Tongue )


Elskidor
Rohan


Nov 23 2013, 4:18pm

Post #21 of 28 (182 views)
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well [In reply to] Can't Post

If Azog doesn't redeem himself, and decide to help Thorin destroy Smaug, the Orc army and Bolg then I will give it a bad review. I want brokeback Hobbit and Thorin and Azog to develop a deeper respect, understand and even love for one another.


DanielLB
Immortal


Nov 23 2013, 4:44pm

Post #22 of 28 (160 views)
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I must stress ... [In reply to] Can't Post

That I actually agree with you. What I said above is how I think it will turn out. I'd rather Smaug's death was handled in DOS.

It would be quite interesting to see two versions of DOS with and without his death. Without seeing how both turn out, it's difficult to say which version would be "better". They both have their advantages and disadvantages. (As an aside, I think the general audience would be disappointed if Smaug died in DOS. To the Joe Bloggs, that is the culmination of the storyline. As fans, we know there's more to it, so some may prefer having the death earlier on).

I can't wait until it comes out. Cool Since the ending as been kept under wraps, PJ may well surprise us all! We know virtually nothing about Smaug!



dormouse
Half-elven


Nov 23 2013, 5:08pm

Post #23 of 28 (149 views)
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The excitement's really building now, isn't it... [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm going to stay out of here after the première, or try to, because the one thing I don't want to see is a review, good or bad, before I've seen the film. No a review that reveals the ending, anyway.

As for surprising us all, he'll do that for sure!


flameofudun
Lorien

Nov 23 2013, 5:28pm

Post #24 of 28 (146 views)
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Do you have to troll [In reply to] Can't Post

All the topics you post in.... Seriously.

''We are very dangerous over short distances''

-Gimli


flameofudun
Lorien

Nov 23 2013, 5:29pm

Post #25 of 28 (144 views)
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I completely agree dormouse [In reply to] Can't Post

Good perspective.

''We are very dangerous over short distances''

-Gimli

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