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What was said at the Council of Elrond

Hamfast Gamgee
Grey Havens

Nov 22 2013, 12:25am

Post #1 of 7 (256 views)
What was said at the Council of Elrond Can't Post

At the Council of Elrond it was said that the One Ring could not have stayed there as Sauron would have discovered the location and put all of his strength upon Rivendell and destroyed it. All very well, but how would this have worked in practice? Even a Sauron determined to destroy Rivendell would have had to march through Gondor and Rohan surely? And did Sauron even know the location of the Elven-dwelling? And if he did what they would he have done? Marched armies of Orcs in a Blitzkrieg across Middle-Earth to capture Rivendell and the ring?


Nov 22 2013, 2:47am

Post #2 of 7 (176 views)
Not so hard. [In reply to] Can't Post

In the first place, Sauron knew exactly where Rivendell was, having laid siege to it for three years in the Second Age. And getting there, with an army of any size, would also be no problem, as the entire east bank of the Anduin was accessible with many allies and few defenders, all the way up to the Old Forest Road and High Pass. And he would pick up support from whatever forces he kept at Dol Guldur as well as the orcs of the Old Forest, Moria, etc.

Rivendell was very vulnerable.

Tol Eressea

Nov 22 2013, 2:27pm

Post #3 of 7 (132 views)
Also [In reply to] Can't Post

We are dealing with immortal elves & Maiar here. They have to think not in terms of years, but centuries and ages. Could Sauron get there next summer? Maybe, maybe not. But could he get there sometime in the next 1000 years? Sure!


Happiness: money matters, but less than we think and not in the way that we think. Family is important and so are friends, while envy is toxic -- and so is excessive thinking. Beaches are optional. Trust is not. Neither is gratitude. - The Geography of Bliss by Eric Weiner as summarized by Lily Fairbairn. And a bit of the Hobbit reading thrown in never hurts. - NottaSackville


Nov 22 2013, 8:45pm

Post #4 of 7 (114 views)
Don't forget Saruman [In reply to] Can't Post

At the Council of Elrond the treachery of Saruman was revealed to all. If the Ring had remained in Rivendell, Saruman would have probably aided Sauron in attempting to recover it. Saruman's knowledge of Imladris would have been invaluable.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Nov 22 2013, 8:46pm)

Hamfast Gamgee
Grey Havens

Nov 23 2013, 12:08am

Post #5 of 7 (102 views)
In hundreds or thousands of years maybe! [In reply to] Can't Post

But in the meantime, Frodo and Bilbo could get comfortable. Even explore the pine-woods!


Nov 23 2013, 1:35am

Post #6 of 7 (92 views)
I think Sauron would move promptly [In reply to] Can't Post

...once he knew where it was. Of course, Elrond would attempt to keep it secret, and maybe he could for a time. But would Elrond expose Rivendell to that threat just to buy Bilbo and Frodo a comfortable old age?

(This post was edited by Elizabeth on Nov 23 2013, 1:36am)


Nov 23 2013, 2:48am

Post #7 of 7 (124 views)
The danger is immediate and real - Sauron knows where to go and how to get there [In reply to] Can't Post

"Only the waning might of Gondor stands now between him and a march in power along the coasts into the North" is how Elrond's counselor Galdor puts it at the Council. Boromir begs to differ: "But Gondor stands, and even the end of its strength is still very strong."
Galdor parries, "other roads he may find that Gondor does not guard."

Tolkien is letting us know that the Wise have some time, but not much, to decide what to do with the Ring - perhaps a year or a dozen years.

In the LotR Appendices the idea of Sauron attacking the Northlands is fleshed out. In the annals of the Second Age he did exactly what Galdor remembers. His "march in power" to the North and the first siege of Rivendell was only thwarted in the end by Numenor. (Unfinished Tales has a far more detailed account of how Sauron ravaged Eriador.) In the annals of the War of the Ring in the Third Age we learn about the attacks on Erebor and Rohan that took place while the Fellowship was struggling in the South.

There is even Gandalf's odd reminiscence about the 'Hobbit' adventure, where he states (in Tolkien's place, clearly) that Sauron as he rebuilt his power had originally plotted to attack the North first, not the South, from his base in Dol Guldur. Thinking of how all this was averted in the year of 'The Hobbit', his epitaph is, "Think of what might have been. Dragon-fire and savage swords in Eriador, night in Rivendell."

Throughout the book is the clear theme that Rivendell, though far from Mordor, is by no means a safe haven from Sauron.

squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Footeramas: The 3rd (and NOW the 4th too!) TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion; and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary

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