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The One Ring Forums: Off Topic: The Pollantir:
I think it did what it was supposed to do and I loved it
 
Poll: Anger hug: yay or nay?
I loved it/liked it
Didn't like it/Hated it
It was OK:
View Results (59 votes)
 

Dame Ioreth
Gondor


Nov 14 2013, 3:00pm


Views: 246
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I think it did what it was supposed to do and I loved it [In reply to] Can't Post

Thorin is a dwarf, not a man or an elf and his character is that of a grumpy dwarf, not happy, not sleepy not dopey. He reacts in anger more often that not. So the anger we see at the beginning of this interaction is what I would expect.

He doesnít hate Bilbo, he sees Bilbo as a waste of his time, one more thing standing in the way of his goal and there are so many things in the way already. Bilbo becomes the ride-along manifestation of Thorinís frustration with all these challenges. The go-to guy to whinge about when things go wrong, which they do.

Thorinís realization of what Bilbo accomplished goes through phases, like Brethil pointed out.

Anger - Itís his default setting with Bilbo
More anger - Itís his default setting period
Frustration - see above
Realization - this oneís important. I think he not only realizes that Bilbo saved him and the quest, I think the fact that the hobbit far exceeded his expectations stoked the tin little flame of hope in him that they might actually succeed. This quest is not a given in Thorinís mind. Heís driven to embark on it, but he knows the odds of gaining Erebor are slim.
Thanks - Thorin was not always a grumpy dwarf. This ability to give thanks I see as another facet of a young dwarf who was made to grow up too quickly and in circumstances where things for which to give thanks were few. This crack in the surliness I think shows the Thorin that might have been if he had grown up in peace and prosperity. It actually made me sad for Thorin. So much could have been different for him. I understood more of what was driving him because of this.

So, the change of heart that we see, which I personally donít see as trope, is Thorin allowing himself to hope that they will make it and allowing something that had been lost in him to show for a brief moment.

BUT, where once he pinned nothing on Bilbo, now he pins everything on Bilbo - the success of the mission, reclaiming the treasure, *reclaiming the Arkenstone which I think is his real push because it is tied to his right to rule in his mind. So going forward, Bilbo now has very high expectations from Thorin that he must meet. He will not meet all of them and that will send their relationship back to where is was before.

Thorin succumbing to the dragon sickness will make the swing back even more so in my opinion. Bilbo will have to rescue them, find the Arkenstone, figure out what the dragonís weakness it, and make julienne fries too for that matter. The bar will be set very high for Bilbo and any setback will be blamed on him. Itís Thorinís default mode.

It's just an opinion, but I think the ability to enjoy scenes like this is to come to the film with an open mind. If one starts out the scene already peeved that Azog was back (and thus had changed the "canon") one will not like this scene. If one comes to it looking for certain elements of one's own head-canon (saying this or that should be there and be there this way) then you will not like this scene. If one wants a movie devoid of the heroic stuff of legends kinds of scenes then one will probably call "trope" every time something like this is filmed. Shakespeare used this stuff and it was old back then. "Trope" and "canon" are, in my opinion, the biggest "tropes" of the online fan world.

What this scene did for me was set up a number of emotional touchstones. Bilbo showed he could show mercy in the scene before and not kill and then in the very next scene showed he was very ready to kill if needed. Thorin showed that he was able to change his mind about someone. Bilbo showed his worth, something I think was needed early on otherwise why keep dragging him along? And Thorin gave us clues as to his inner struggle against despair.

I loved this scene and I'll even quote RA: "Nailed it."

Subject User Time
Anger hug: yay or nay? macfalk Send a private message to macfalk Nov 13 2013, 11:25pm
    I have no clue what you're talking about Magpie Send a private message to Magpie Nov 13 2013, 11:36pm
        Translation... arithmancer Send a private message to arithmancer Nov 14 2013, 2:14am
        Sorry for not making it clearer macfalk Send a private message to macfalk Nov 14 2013, 11:12am
    I loved it Kim Send a private message to Kim Nov 14 2013, 12:52am
        Same here Kim - I love it too Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Nov 14 2013, 1:32am
            Very nicely put Brethil! Kim Send a private message to Kim Nov 14 2013, 3:36am
                Thanks back Kim! It felt that way to me too. // Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Nov 14 2013, 9:57pm
                    I agree and like your analysis Brethil elaen32 Send a private message to elaen32 Nov 14 2013, 10:09pm
                        Yup - your illustration is the perfect one Elaen Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Nov 14 2013, 10:18pm
                        Yes Na Vedui Send a private message to Na Vedui Nov 15 2013, 12:25am
    My only problem with the scene... RosieLass Send a private message to RosieLass Nov 14 2013, 3:04am
        Exactly. Elizabeth Send a private message to Elizabeth Nov 14 2013, 7:42am
    Hated it ArdamŪrŽ Send a private message to ArdamŪrŽ Nov 14 2013, 7:58am
        *is looking for the 'like' button* // mj Send a private message to mj Nov 26 2013, 7:05pm
    I think it did what it was supposed to do and I loved it Dame Ioreth Send a private message to Dame Ioreth Nov 14 2013, 3:00pm
    Loved it! Werde Spinner Send a private message to Werde Spinner Nov 14 2013, 6:30pm
    While I didn't hate it, I didn't like it. dik-dik Send a private message to dik-dik Nov 14 2013, 7:26pm
    IMO Elskidor Send a private message to Elskidor Nov 15 2013, 1:19am
    Cringed imin Send a private message to imin Nov 15 2013, 11:25pm
    I absolutely loathed this scene malickfan Send a private message to malickfan Nov 19 2013, 6:58pm
        What's funny is... RosieLass Send a private message to RosieLass Nov 19 2013, 8:16pm
            Well I (partially) agree with you there malickfan Send a private message to malickfan Nov 19 2013, 9:51pm
    It doesn't ruin anything for me, sauget.diblosio Send a private message to sauget.diblosio Nov 30 2013, 11:26am

 
 
 

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