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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Some things I wish were different in aUJ
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Israfellius
The Shire

Nov 13 2013, 1:23am

Post #1 of 34 (1122 views)
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Some things I wish were different in aUJ Can't Post

Some things I would have changed if Wingnut hired me as script supervisor.

1. The three trolls. Specifically their voices. Typically the larger an animal is the deeper the voice and/or sounds it makes. The trolls should have had deeper resonating baritone voices, not "man sounding" voices. It would have made the scene work better on an unconscious level. Same thing about the troll king. Azog's voice was done well.

2. The "sleigh ride" on the broken walkway down to the bottom of the cave. This was just a bit too cheesy. I like humor and light-heartedness, but not cheesiness. In fact, there was just way too much wooden scaffolding all around. Why do they need it?

3 I wish the scene of Bilbo reaching for the ring when he first found it had been made to look like the same scene in FOTR: Bilbo in a prone position fumbling with his fat hand for a second while saying "What's this?" rather than the disinterested way of aUJ. That would have really tied the movies together in a concrete way at the most consequential scene in the film.

4. Those damn rabbits.

5. The pipe smoke blowing out the ears thing. It was just a tad too cheesy especially when combined with the insect-coming-out-of-the-mouth gag. I wish they had portrayed Radagast as really strange and eccentric rather than goofy.

7. Thorin should not have yelled "Help us!" to Thranduil. It's too simplistic. Help us do what? evacuate? He was too far away to even hear him, let alone over the commotion.The scene would have worked much better with Thorin doing exactly what he did, just not saying those two words.

8. Thranduil could not see any dragon from the ridge because he arrived on the ridge after Smaug was in the gold chamber. All Thranduil and his army saw was some fires and lots of people running out of Erebor. If Thranduil knew before coming to the ridge that a dragon was attacking, then it is likely he probably intended to help, and would have done so, as he wouldn't have come otherwise. If Thranduil didn't know about a dragon attacking, then he would likely have at least gone down the hill to see wtf the matter was. You'd think with Dale being destroyed, Thranduil would have been well aware of what's going on .

Unless the intent was that Thranduil knew about Smaug, was planning to help, but simply changes his mind about helping when he looks down on Erebor.

9. The salacious crumb orc.


Bladerunner
Gondor


Nov 13 2013, 1:52am

Post #2 of 34 (665 views)
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With all of the overt references to the LoTR films that were included in AUJ... [In reply to] Can't Post

you would think that Jackson would've gotten the easiest and most obvious connection right.
Perhaps it wasn't clever enough for him...


In Reply To


3 I wish the scene of Bilbo reaching for the ring when he first found it had been made to look like the same scene in FOTR: Bilbo in a prone position fumbling with his fat hand for a second while saying "What's this?" rather than the disinterested way of aUJ. That would have really tied the movies together in a concrete way at the most consequential scene in the film.




Ziggy Stardust
Gondor


Nov 13 2013, 2:20am

Post #3 of 34 (612 views)
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Radagast [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
I wish they had portrayed Radagast as really strange and eccentric rather than goofy.

I wished this too. Radagast was supposed to be strange and eccentric. I always got that impression with the little we saw of in in the Fellowship of the Ring novel. The bug coming out of his mouth was silly and unbecoming. The bird-dung in his hair was gross.


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Nov 13 2013, 7:32am

Post #4 of 34 (482 views)
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But like u said he's eccentric! [In reply to] Can't Post

That's why he has bird poo on his hair and bugs crawling out of his mouth! He's the ultimate hippie wizard Wink


take me down to the woodland realm where the trees are green and the elf women are pretty....Oh will you please take me home!!


Elskidor
Rohan

Nov 13 2013, 9:17am

Post #5 of 34 (439 views)
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765r [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Some things I would have changed if Wingnut hired me as script supervisor.

1. The three trolls. Specifically their voices. Typically the larger an animal is the deeper the voice and/or sounds it makes. The trolls should have had deeper resonating baritone voices, not "man sounding" voices. It would have made the scene work better on an unconscious level. Same thing about the troll king. Azog's voice was done well.

2. The "sleigh ride" on the broken walkway down to the bottom of the cave. This was just a bit too cheesy. I like humor and light-heartedness, but not cheesiness. In fact, there was just way too much wooden scaffolding all around. Why do they need it?

3 I wish the scene of Bilbo reaching for the ring when he first found it had been made to look like the same scene in FOTR: Bilbo in a prone position fumbling with his fat hand for a second while saying "What's this?" rather than the disinterested way of aUJ. That would have really tied the movies together in a concrete way at the most consequential scene in the film.

4. Those damn rabbits.

5. The pipe smoke blowing out the ears thing. It was just a tad too cheesy especially when combined with the insect-coming-out-of-the-mouth gag. I wish they had portrayed Radagast as really strange and eccentric rather than goofy.

7. Thorin should not have yelled "Help us!" to Thranduil. It's too simplistic. Help us do what? evacuate? He was too far away to even hear him, let alone over the commotion.The scene would have worked much better with Thorin doing exactly what he did, just not saying those two words.

8. Thranduil could not see any dragon from the ridge because he arrived on the ridge after Smaug was in the gold chamber. All Thranduil and his army saw was some fires and lots of people running out of Erebor. If Thranduil knew before coming to the ridge that a dragon was attacking, then it is likely he probably intended to help, and would have done so, as he wouldn't have come otherwise. If Thranduil didn't know about a dragon attacking, then he would likely have at least gone down the hill to see wtf the matter was. You'd think with Dale being destroyed, Thranduil would have been well aware of what's going on .

Unless the intent was that Thranduil knew about Smaug, was planning to help, but simply changes his mind about helping when he looks down on Erebor.

9. The salacious crumb orc.


I don't think any of these things bothered me at all. I loved the bunnies. I do think the ring connection to FoTR shoulda been there though..that would have been nice.


Boromir Stark
Rivendell

Nov 13 2013, 11:03am

Post #6 of 34 (411 views)
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Regarding the finding of the Ring... [In reply to] Can't Post

I thought it was ret-conned pretty well when, at the start of the movie when Bilbo is writing the Red Book, he explains that he may not have been entirely truthful in his original telling of the events of the Quest.

That is, the scene in the Fellowship showing Bilbo fumbling around looking for the Ring, is probably what Bilbo originally told people had happened.

But by the time it comes to him writing the Red Book (as shown in AUJ), Bilbo feels the need to 'fess up and tell Frodo the truth: that he actually came across the Ring during his confrontation with Gollum.

I guess that would be pretty easy to miss, but that's the interpretation I took from it. The reason for the retcon, I think, is obviously that PJ didn't exactly have time to show the events of Riddles in the Dark in the prologue of FoTR, and probably felt that he didn't need to because he likely wasn't thinking about making The Hobbit at all at that point.


(This post was edited by Boromir Stark on Nov 13 2013, 11:09am)


Boromir Stark
Rivendell

Nov 13 2013, 11:07am

Post #7 of 34 (390 views)
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To build on this... [In reply to] Can't Post

The events with FreemanBilbo are flashbacks, remember - that is, they are Bilbo's re-telling of events that he has likely already told (and heavily imbellished - as hinted at by Gandalf at Bag End) people before.

By the time the opening scene comes around and HolmBilbo is writing the Red Book, he is ready to leave for Rivendell - it is because of this that he probably feels the need to tell the truth of what actually happened, and thus this re-telling begins in flashback.


Arannir
Valinor


Nov 13 2013, 11:13am

Post #8 of 34 (396 views)
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My list [In reply to] Can't Post

I really think AUJ is a good movie that mainly suffered from expectations that were never realistic and that would have not been met to an even higher degree hadn't the filmmakers decided to go for an expanded Hobbit.

But there are still some things I would like to change which would make the movie better instantly imho. It comes down to two, really.


1. Leave the Frodo prologue for the EE. It would have given us a great new take at the opening of the movie for the EE as with FotR - but the theatrical wouldn't have suffered from an even slower start and more LotR references. Instead of Frodo walking out of the pandry, let it be young Bilbo, going outside for a smoke.

2. Leave the Stone Giants (who look impressive and I like them even more since I have seen the terrific artwork and thought that went into them) as shadows battleing each other in the mist, without the company being involved.


“All good stories deserve embellishment."

Praise is subjective. And so is criticism.


Boromir Stark
Rivendell

Nov 13 2013, 11:45am

Post #9 of 34 (390 views)
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My List (Possible Spoilers??) [In reply to] Can't Post

1 - The Radagast stuff - Especially the bunny sled. Not to say he shouldn't have been included, because I'm glad that he is, but most of his scenes are ridiculous.

2 - Azog - Now, I have since grown to like Azog. Very much, actually. But I will concede that his inclusion in this film just was not required. As has been pointed out many, many times already, his role could have been filled by Bolg, without harming the history. It could just as easily have been Bolg that Thorin fought at Azanulbizar, and if it were it would set up their showdown in the Battle of Five Armies very nicely.

3 - Necromancer Sub-Plot - Not disputing that the Necromancer be included in the movie - he absolutely should - but I do not like where they are going by tying his storyline to the Dwarves' by making Azog work for him. Azog has his own motivation for pursuing Thorin at this point, he should not need to be doing it at the behest of the Necromancer, which, if the clip of the orc in Thranduil's hall is anything to go by, is the direction they are heading: "My Master serves the One..."

4 - OTT Set-Pieces - I am here referring to the scaffold-surfing scene following the Goblin King's death. So the Dwarves are sturdy folk, we get it, we saw as much when they first fell into Goblin Town. This scene was pointless and ridiculous.


shaundobson
Rivendell

Nov 13 2013, 12:10pm

Post #10 of 34 (348 views)
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Agree with the stone giants [In reply to] Can't Post

It would have been much better to see them battling in the distance, it still would have had the same effect, as to them being part of it which was way to far fetched.

What were the stone giants anyways ? were they not just big trolls in the mountain ?


Glorfindela
Valinor


Nov 13 2013, 12:27pm

Post #11 of 34 (342 views)
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I agree about leaving out Frodo [In reply to] Can't Post

Although I wasn't too bothered about his appearance because it was quite brief.

I really like the Stone Giants, though – a great concept and visuals as far as I'm concerned.

The only things I would have changed are Radagast's make-up and a couple of PJ's gross moments. Otherwise I wouldn't have changed anything.

As for any creative work, there are things that different people will like or dislike – it's all about personal opinion.


arithmancer
Grey Havens


Nov 13 2013, 1:22pm

Post #12 of 34 (327 views)
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Thorin [In reply to] Can't Post

If Thorin had fought Bolg, yes, Bolg would have a motivation to pursue Thorin. But what reason would Thorin have to feel strongly about Bolg, as he does about Azog in AUJ? Thorin's feelings are absolutely relevant to the story of AUJ. Azog, on the other hand, slew his grandfather.

Unless you are proposing, also, that Bolg should have slain Thror. That, of course, would also mess with the history.


Boromir Stark
Rivendell

Nov 13 2013, 2:21pm

Post #13 of 34 (292 views)
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Thror could still have been killed by Azog. [In reply to] Can't Post

Perhaps Bolg could have killed Thorin's brother (as I'm sure it is mentioned somewhere in Tolkien's writings that he died at Azanulbizar), or captured his father, Thrain? It seems like they are heading in that direction anyway.

Both would be more than enough reason for Thorin to hate him.


Runk Snusgrop
Rivendell


Nov 13 2013, 2:29pm

Post #14 of 34 (300 views)
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Re: [In reply to] Can't Post

I had no problems with any point brought up in this thread.

The only thing I can think of that I really disliked was the blue & orange color correcting, which has become something of a plague in movies: http://theabyssgazes.blogspot.se/...ood-please-stop.html

I'm disappointed that PJ decided to follow this horrendous trend.



Elskidor
Rohan

Nov 13 2013, 3:09pm

Post #15 of 34 (278 views)
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I'm so confused [In reply to] Can't Post

I've never heard of this issue before just now. Blue and orange?


Runk Snusgrop
Rivendell


Nov 13 2013, 3:11pm

Post #16 of 34 (271 views)
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Re: [In reply to] Can't Post

Click the link and you'll see.

Everyone's doing it, including Peter Jackson now. Everything is tinted either blue or orange and it looks awful.

Here's another great link:


(This post was edited by Runk Snusgrop on Nov 13 2013, 3:13pm)


Fleuz
Lorien


Nov 13 2013, 3:17pm

Post #17 of 34 (263 views)
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That's your opinion [In reply to] Can't Post

Nothing more. The orange-peal (I call it Mojo) is nowadays in nearly every blockbuster.
But in the Hobbit it was often used just a little. Often the colors look normal.
And the Mojo-Effect is just kind of an overdoing of real light sceneries.


Runk Snusgrop
Rivendell


Nov 13 2013, 3:19pm

Post #18 of 34 (257 views)
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Re: [In reply to] Can't Post

It was used more than just a little. In my opinion.

Here's a set of pictures comparing the trailer to the finished release:
Looked way better before they tinkered with it. IN MY OPINION.



Glorfindela
Valinor


Nov 13 2013, 3:43pm

Post #19 of 34 (251 views)
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Must say, it's not something I noticed at all… [In reply to] Can't Post

 


sycorax82
Rohan

Nov 13 2013, 4:38pm

Post #20 of 34 (254 views)
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It's funny what Philippa Boyens says in the commentary... [In reply to] Can't Post

That they all pleaded Peter to take out the stick insect moment (which he wrote! :D) but he refused to!


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea


Nov 13 2013, 4:45pm

Post #21 of 34 (238 views)
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I always find it funnier to hear PJ talk about, [In reply to] Can't Post

or rationalize, why he includes these sorts of things than watching the actual scenes. He really does love that weird/gross stuff, and can't help himself, no matter what we might think of it. To me, it gets a bit too silly, but if bird poop and stick insects and snot in your soup were all we had to worry about in AUJ (and, to a lesser extent i hope, DoS and TaBA), i'd be fine with that. There are much larger concerns with this new trilogy, i find.


Kilidoescartwheels
Rohan

Nov 13 2013, 6:00pm

Post #22 of 34 (209 views)
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Bilbo and the ring [In reply to] Can't Post

Although I agree with you, I think the reason PJ changed the scene is because he wanted to preserve Ian Holm's scene. He said there was some pressure to insert Martin Freeman's scene in future re-issues of the Fellowship, and he said he doesn't want to do that because he respects Ian Holm too much. That's just a guess, though.


Faleel
Rohan

Nov 13 2013, 6:08pm

Post #23 of 34 (195 views)
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Well [In reply to] Can't Post

he said in the AUJ EE that he might do it, but he would want the original to still be available.


Kilidoescartwheels
Rohan

Nov 13 2013, 6:18pm

Post #24 of 34 (207 views)
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Thranduil [In reply to] Can't Post

7. Thorin should not have yelled "Help us!" to Thranduil. It's too simplistic. Help us do what? evacuate? He was too far away to even hear him, let alone over the commotion.The scene would have worked much better with Thorin doing exactly what he did, just not saying those two words.

8. Thranduil could not see any dragon from the ridge because he arrived on the ridge after Smaug was in the gold chamber. All Thranduil and his army saw was some fires and lots of people running out of Erebor. If Thranduil knew before coming to the ridge that a dragon was attacking, then it is likely he probably intended to help, and would have done so, as he wouldn't have come otherwise. If Thranduil didn't know about a dragon attacking, then he would likely have at least gone down the hill to see wtf the matter was. You'd think with Dale being destroyed, Thranduil would have been well aware of what's going on .

Unless the intent was that Thranduil knew about Smaug, was planning to help, but simply changes his mind about helping when he looks down on Erebor.


Sorry, I don't really know how to do the "Quote" thing. Well now that you put it that way, it's a good question. I always assumed he was coming to the aid of Dale, because of the horns blowing, but when he got there it was too late and all the damage had been done. Perhaps he realized a dragon had attacked BECAUSE of the damage to Dale, the fires, the front door to Erebor being ripped apart, yet no bodies of an enemy army laying around (which there would have been, don't you think?). Or maybe he heard fleeing people screaming "Dragon!"

As for Thorin, I can't imagine what else he could have said, he was trying to save his people. From Bilbo's description, it sounds like Thorin did want the Elves to help him fight the dragon, which Thranduil wasn't willing to do, and that makes sense (I mean, what's in it for Thranduil, white diamonds?). The book said there were dwarves trapped in the mountain, who were eaten by Smaug, so yeah, maybe Thorin meant evacuate and/or fight the dragon to save his people. Just a thought.


Bernhardina
Rohan


Nov 13 2013, 8:05pm

Post #25 of 34 (165 views)
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Bashing AUJ? Oh well... [In reply to] Can't Post

I loooove AUJ! It is an amazing movie! But it can't be all perfect, obviously. Here's what I think could have been left out or changed to make it better:


1. Frodo in prolouge
2. Too much stuff happening in Bag End before company leaving
3. Too little character development and interesting relationships
4. Stone giants (cool but has nothing to do with the story)
5. Goblin Town action scene waaay too long and "That'll do it" worst line since "Tell me where is Gandalf, for I much desire to speak with him"
6. Azog not being Epic enough while fighting Thorin in the end of the Movie
7. Oh I almost forgot! Snot in the soup. Ew.


Oh and the rest of the Movie is Amazing. That's why we are complaining right? Because Everything else was Close to perfect Wink

Boromir: One does not simply walk into Mordor...

Gandalf: FLY, YOU FOOLS!


(This post was edited by Bernhardina on Nov 13 2013, 8:09pm)

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