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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Northern Mine Barrage :
Continuity error in Rivendell? (AUJ EE)

burgahobbit
Rigger


Nov 12 2013, 7:24pm

Post #1 of 15 (1106 views)
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Continuity error in Rivendell? (AUJ EE) Can't Post

"I have been waiting for this very chance to tell you." This line from Gandalf in the extended edition seems odd to me. He is talking to Elrond about the Quest for Erebor and Elrond seems to be wondering why he had waited to tell him about the quest. What I don't understand is this. In the extended edition, the company stays over two nights in Rivindell, so while in the theatrical edition it appears that Gandalf and Elrond step aside to talk just after the moonrunes scene, this scene actually takes place a whole day later; the following night. Which means that Elrond had already figured out that "This is your purpose, to enter the mountain" a whole day before accusing Gandalf of keeping this a secret, and it means that Gandalf had a whole day to talk to Elrond about the quest, so why had he been waiting for "this chance"? To me it seems that "this chance" meant the reading of the moon runes, and that these scenes were filmed as if it was the same night in Rivendell, and later they decided to edit it differently for the EE, causing a slight continuity error.

"I've found it is the small things, everyday deeds of ordinary folk, that keeps the darkness at bay. Simple acts of kindness and love. Why Bilbo Baggins? Perhaps it is because Im afraid, and he gives me courage. - Gandalf the Grey.

"Do not be afraid Mithrandir, if ever you should need my help, I will come." - Lady Galadriel.

(This post was edited by burgahobbit on Nov 12 2013, 7:25pm)


Ffnir
Rigger


Nov 12 2013, 7:30pm

Post #2 of 15 (538 views)
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They're both immortal, maybe it just could wait one day ? [In reply to] Can't Post

 


book Gandalf
Rigger


Nov 12 2013, 7:37pm

Post #3 of 15 (571 views)
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really? [In reply to] Can't Post

I WANT MY MONEY BACK

This is a serious journey, not a hobbit walking-party.


DanielLB
Captain


Nov 12 2013, 8:11pm

Post #4 of 15 (495 views)
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I think ... [In reply to] Can't Post

They've moved around the Rivendell scenes a bit, so, as you say, this scene doesn't quite sit right (chronologically).

It seems like "you are not the only Guardian to watch over Middle-earth" is supposed to be followed by the scene you mention and the White Council. However, in the EE, we cut to Weathetop (nighttime), followed by Bilbo exploring Rivendell. I expect these day scenes are actually supposed to be before/after the Rivendell dinner scene. They've just re-jigged the scenes a bit. It doesn't stick out like a sore thumb.

The largest continuity problem I have with Rivendell is its shifting buildings. Plus the food-covered stone bird next to Lindir before anyone actually throws anything at it. Angelic



(This post was edited by DanielLB on Nov 12 2013, 8:15pm)


burgahobbit
Rigger


Nov 12 2013, 8:35pm

Post #5 of 15 (429 views)
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YEAH ME TOO! [In reply to] Can't Post

But seriously I'm not trying to complain, I just thought I'd point it out and see what others thought about it.

@DanielLB, Yeah you're right. It could be that the scenes where Bilbo is exploring Rivendell is actually sort of a flashback to the first day in Rivendell. I hadn't actually even noticed that the buildings shift and that the statue has food on it too early. Nice observations. Wink

(This post was edited by burgahobbit on Nov 12 2013, 8:36pm)


Remus
Able Seaman

Nov 12 2013, 9:03pm

Post #6 of 15 (397 views)
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I dont quite get it [In reply to] Can't Post

Maybe i am too tired or something but i dont really understand what you mean. Maybe i will try to read this later. Smile

But i really wanna see that, i wanna see that scene where we see Sauron walking the steps INSIDE of Bara-Dûr and taking his seat upon his dark throne and summoning the eye, looking into the camera and then BAM! THE END.


-My thoughts on the best ending scene/post credit scene on TABA.


Aragorn the Elfstone
Boatswain


Nov 12 2013, 11:37pm

Post #7 of 15 (294 views)
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I'm not so sure... [In reply to] Can't Post

...that it's an error. Elrond is dressed in different clothes in the bridge scene than in the moon runes scene - so I think it is supposed to be a different day. My guess is that Elrond waited to grill Gandalf on the dwarves' quest until he knew he had some back-up (Saruman and Galadriel).

"All men dream; but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds awake to find that it was vanity; But the dreamers of day are dangerous men. That they may act their dreams with open eyes to make it possible."
- T.E. Lawrence


burgahobbit
Rigger


Nov 13 2013, 2:23am

Post #8 of 15 (249 views)
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I'm sorry [In reply to] Can't Post

My above post was not written well so I apologize. Let me try again...


Elrond figures out what the dwarves' quest is during the moon-runes scene. In the extended edition, it then skips over to Azog and then back to Rivendell, but now it is day time again as Bilbo wanders around (so presumably this is Rivendell: day 2). A few night scenes follow and Gandalf is making excuses for waiting so long to tell Elrond about the quest. "I was going to tell you, I was waiting for this very chance." The question is, what is "this very chance"? It sounds like it is happening in the present time, so it couldn't be the moonrunes scene (the night before), but we know that the moonrunes scene is when Elrond figured out that the dwarves wanted to reclaim Erebor. After that (the moonrunes), it would have been the perfect moment for Gandalf to step aside with Elrond and explain his motives, but he waits an entire night and a day until he finds the exact right "chance" to reveal the 'secret'. It doesn't quite add up.


However, its really a trivial matter (and there have been many worse mistakes) and DanielLB and AragorntheElfstone have some interesting input. Smile

"I've found it is the small things, everyday deeds of ordinary folk, that keeps the darkness at bay. Simple acts of kindness and love. Why Bilbo Baggins? Perhaps it is because Im afraid, and he gives me courage. - Gandalf the Grey.

"Do not be afraid Mithrandir, if ever you should need my help, I will come." - Lady Galadriel.


DanielLB
Captain


Nov 13 2013, 8:05am

Post #9 of 15 (196 views)
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You're right ... [In reply to] Can't Post

Which means the scenes haven't been moved about. I imagine there are a lot of other (filler) deleted scenes that take place between them.

Smile



Endor Dweller
Powder Monkey


Nov 13 2013, 8:10am

Post #10 of 15 (197 views)
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I believe "this very chance" [In reply to] Can't Post

refers to Gandalf's arriving in Rivendell rather than a specific moment of their stay there. (sorry for my English)

- Good morning.
- What do you mean? Do you mean to wish me a good morning, or do you mean that it is a good morning whether I want it or not? Or perhaps you mean to say that you feel good on this particular morning...or are you simply stating that this is a morning to be good on?

- Good evening.
- Yes, yes it is. Though I think it might rain later.


FoFo64
Cabin Boy

Nov 13 2013, 3:14pm

Post #11 of 15 (148 views)
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I think it still works.. [In reply to] Can't Post

I think Gandalf is referring more specifically to the overall situation. The idea that he was waiting until he and the dwarves arrived at Rivendell to discuss at any great length the Quest for Erebor. Not specifically the moment in which Elrond found out about the Moonrunes. I think it's fair to believe that Elrond may have still been bitter the entire day about it. And maybe this is the moment he decides to bring it up again, considering that he is leading Gandalf to the White Council, where he will have others to back him up.

On a side note, has anyone noticed how ridiculously quick it turned into the darkest of nights after Bilbo and the Dwarves exit the Goblin Tunnels? They leave and it's daytime, and then as soon as Azog shows up it turns into midnight. What happened there!?


(This post was edited by FoFo64 on Nov 13 2013, 3:16pm)


FaramirAndEowynMorningStar
Rigger


Nov 13 2013, 4:31pm

Post #12 of 15 (137 views)
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Speaking of Elrond's clothes [In reply to] Can't Post

When I saw AUJ at the cinema and noticed how he changed his outfit I was like "Hey, are Elves that hygienic that they change their clothes, like, twice in one day?"
And my sister was all annoyed because she was expecting some longer scenes in Rivendell, and I said to her "I bet there's going to be an Extended Edition again!"

I have read Peter's mind. Twice. Wink

..The Lord of Silver Fountains
.....The King of Carven Stone
..The King Under the Mountain
.......Shall come into his own

..And the bells will ring in gladness
......At the Mountain King's return
..But all shall fail in sadness
....And the lake will shine and burn


burgahobbit
Rigger


Nov 13 2013, 7:32pm

Post #13 of 15 (117 views)
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Technicalities [In reply to] Can't Post

I think you two got it. "this very chance" means their stay in Rivendell, and it is the second night after all since Elrond is wearing new clothing. Nice job.


Perhaps the quick darkness is a way of showing that a lot more time actually passes as the company is running from the wargs then we see. Philippa Boyens said she likes to pretend that some things from the book that were cut out are still there only that we don't see them. So perhaps the whole sliding down rocks scene actually happened before the wargs caught up with the company. Wink Or maybe they just ran for a much longer time so the sun just kind of sinks with the time we missed.


I never noticed the shifting buildings or the food on the statue too early or things that others pick up on so easily. There were many things like that in Lord of the Rings too, actually (just look up Lord of the Rings mistakes on youtube and you'll see what I mean). But while were at it with this whole movie mistakes thing I might as well add, the worst thing imo is the sun switching places in the Carrock scene. I'll excuse them for not knowing the exact layout of Rivendell, I'll excuse them for getting their props mixed up between various takes, but the position of the sun is just so easy to get right! Hint: the sun should stay in one place of the sky for the entire scene. Laugh here, here and here.

(This post was edited by burgahobbit on Nov 13 2013, 7:36pm)


arithmancer
Boatswain


Nov 13 2013, 7:41pm

Post #14 of 15 (110 views)
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Is that really a mistake? [In reply to] Can't Post

To me the screencap of Gandalf with the sun behind him and to his left looks like a moment when he has just hopped off his eagle and goes to check on Thorin. (He has a worried look).

The one showing the sun to the right of the whole group is at the very end, when they look off towards Erebor. Thorin started out facing that way - but Gandalf approached him from that direction, and would have had his back to Erebor in the first screencap. Or am I confused?


FoFo64
Cabin Boy

Nov 13 2013, 9:14pm

Post #15 of 15 (105 views)
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I agree! [In reply to] Can't Post

Glad to see I could help clear things up! And with regards to the Warg scene I think you're right! I also excused the sun setting so quickly as maybe meaning that some time passed from the moment they're spotted to the moment they're climbing the trees. It's entirely possible, since there is a slight scene change/edit there. And wow, I had never noticed the sun moving positions in the Carrock scene, lol, now I'm not going to be able to unsee it hahaha.


In Reply To
Perhaps the quick darkness is a way of showing that a lot more time actually passes as the company is running from the wargs then we see. Philippa Boyens said she likes to pretend that some things from the book that were cut out are still there only that we don't see them. So perhaps the whole sliding down rocks scene actually happened before the wargs caught up with the company. Wink Or maybe they just ran for a much longer time so the sun just kind of sinks with the time we missed.



(This post was edited by FoFo64 on Nov 13 2013, 9:15pm)

 
 

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