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cartermoulton
Bree
Nov 12 2013, 5:46pm
Post #1 of 34
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Cheesy Dialogue in AUJ, DOS
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After having viewed the new DOS scene on the front page and following the discussion, it seems that many people are upset with cheesy lines like "You like death? Then let me give it to you!" (reminiscent of "You like pain? Try wearing a corset!" from Pirates of the Caribbean), and "It is not our fight," and so forth.
Wondering, have you seen a significant decline in The Hobbit's screenplay(s) (from AUJ and what we've seen of DOS) when compared to LOTR?
I'm nervous we're going to hear the phrase "reclaim their homeland" 5 more times in DOS. Hopefully nothing falls lower than the finale of AUJ when Thorin awkwardly fakes being angry at Bilbo only to prank him and say "I have never been so wrong in my life."
Just wanting to hear some thoughts!
"the road goes ever on and on..."
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Subaruman
Bree
Nov 12 2013, 5:58pm
Post #2 of 34
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Sure, there's been a few cheesy lines, but...
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it's completely on par with what was in the LoTR movies.
"Here is a book very unsuitable for dramatic or semi-dramatic representation. If that is attempted, it needs more space, a lot of space."
- J.R.R. Tolkien, 1956
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Eruvandi
Tol Eressea
Nov 12 2013, 6:02pm
Post #3 of 34
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There was cheesy dialogue in the books too. Both LotR and the Hobbit.
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There are certain things that sound better in writing than they sound when you say them out loud. I actually don't mind the occasional cheesy dialog in the films because it was in the books too. Things like Legolas' many "obvious-man" statements like "A diversion!", or "A red sun rises. Blood has been spilled this night." or "They're taking the hobbits to Isenguard! or things like "What do your elf-eyes see?" from Aragorn etc. in LotR were just as cheesy as anything we've heard in the Hobbit. I'm not too worried about it as DOS and TABA will become increasingly darker and that will leave less room (theoretically) for cheesiness. Even if it doesn't, it really doesn't bother me much.
Was Tauriel's "You like death?" line cheesy? Yes. Did cheesy lines ruin LotR? No. Will they ruin the Hobbit? No. That's my opinion anyway
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LoremIpsum
Lorien
Nov 12 2013, 6:07pm
Post #4 of 34
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Hopefully nothing falls lower than the finale of AUJ when Thorin awkwardly fakes being angry at Bilbo only to prank him and say "I have never been so wrong in my life."
... you see I thought that was the best scene in the whole movie. Kind of reminded me of "I bow to no one' from ROTK
Also the dialogue in the interrogation scene was pretty simplistic I agree, but bear in mind they were interrogating an orc, it's not like they were going to spew poetry on him.
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Thranderz
Rohan
Nov 12 2013, 6:13pm
Post #5 of 34
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They are fantasy films after all? 
I simply walked into Mordor.
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Bernhardina
Rohan
Nov 12 2013, 6:14pm
Post #6 of 34
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In the new DoS clip in particular, but I'm okay with the lines in AUJ, except for Azogs boring ones and the hideous "That'll do it" from the Goblin King. But actually now that you mention it: yes, I do find the LOTR to be more realistic in the way people speak (not all perfect but still way more than AUJ and what we have seen from DoS so far).
But honestly, it doesn't bother me that much. As long as it s kept to a minimum I can stand the sillyness of the Hobbit.
Boromir: One does not simply walk into Mordor...
Gandalf: FLY, YOU FOOLS!
(This post was edited by Bernhardina on Nov 12 2013, 6:17pm)
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Eruvandi
Tol Eressea
Nov 12 2013, 6:16pm
Post #7 of 34
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Hopefully nothing falls lower than the finale of AUJ when Thorin awkwardly fakes being angry at Bilbo only to prank him and say "I have never been so wrong in my life." Also the dialogue in the interrogation scene was pretty simplistic I agree, but bear in mind they were interrogating an orc, it's not like they were going to spew poetry on him.
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Bernhardina
Rohan
Nov 12 2013, 6:17pm
Post #8 of 34
(720 views)
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Boromir: One does not simply walk into Mordor...
Gandalf: FLY, YOU FOOLS!
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Arannir
Valinor
Nov 12 2013, 6:17pm
Post #9 of 34
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The same can be said about the books imho.
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I haven't seen anything that is particularly worse in the movies, nor better.
Certainly have no issues with the Tauriel quote since the delivery is good.
“All good stories deserve embellishment."
Praise is subjective. And so is criticism.
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Bernhardina
Rohan
Nov 12 2013, 6:20pm
Post #10 of 34
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Delivery is Everything! It has to do with how you say these lines IMO. I Think PJ and the actors are very aware of some of these lines and how they should and shouldn't sound. So I am not worried, these movies are known for brilliant casting so we expect brilliant acting and that is what we always get!
Boromir: One does not simply walk into Mordor...
Gandalf: FLY, YOU FOOLS!
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Avandel
Half-elven
Nov 12 2013, 6:29pm
Post #11 of 34
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I'm one of the ones who really complained about the boring "it's not our fight" line which drove me crazy. But that also stems from absolutely loving the AUJ script -
the "talking" scenes and speeches are wonderful IMO. So when a really dull, overused line creeps in I'm shocked. Anyway, looks like the "fight" line was redone
and since PJ & co. like to work until the last minute, so who knows how the final film will end up. I'm still waiting to see scenes that were in the AUJ trailers - we all
saw them - and guess I will keep waiting!
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Glorfindela
Valinor
Nov 12 2013, 6:36pm
Post #12 of 34
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'I have never been so wrong in my life' is a great line in the context
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I think it is absolutely wonderful, and accompanied by a brilliant scenario – one of the best in the film, for me.
I do agree, however, that there were some very cringe-worthy lines spoken in LOTR, particularly by Legolas.
Hopefully nothing falls lower than the finale of AUJ when Thorin awkwardly fakes being angry at Bilbo only to prank him and say "I have never been so wrong in my life." ... you see I thought that was the best scene in the whole movie. Kind of reminded me of "I bow to no one' from ROTK Also the dialogue in the interrogation scene was pretty simplistic I agree, but bear in mind they were interrogating an orc, it's not like they were going to spew poetry on him. |
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Lost Hobbit
Rivendell
Nov 12 2013, 6:42pm
Post #13 of 34
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... there's a bit sounding very cheesy. Even when Thorin is convinced by Gandalf to show his map, Balin says "Thorin, no." - what does that mean? To me it doesn't sound convincing, since by that time Balin already knows Thorin made his decision (and he's the only one to decide).
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dave_lf
Gondor
Nov 12 2013, 6:47pm
Post #14 of 34
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Corny dialog is most likely when they go off-text,
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and making 3 movies out of one book requires them to go off-text far more often than making 3 movies from 3 books. Ergo...
(This post was edited by dave_lf on Nov 12 2013, 6:47pm)
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Annatar598
Rohan
Nov 12 2013, 6:47pm
Post #15 of 34
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There's nothing cheesier than anything in the book. The Hobbir book is cheesy. Adapting most lines from the book to movie format would work out terribly on screen. I can't imagine RA doing book Thorins reaction to Rivendell word for word. I think the character literally says "thank you" a million times to the elves. Felt a bit squeamish.
And please do keep in mind cheesy isn't bad. Star Wars is the cheesiest thing ever but still a classic.
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jtarkey
Rohan
Nov 12 2013, 6:54pm
Post #16 of 34
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The whole "reclaim our homeland" line, and variations of it are pretty over done.
I don't have a lot of problems with the dialogue in general though.
I can say that I pretty much hate everything Ori and Azog say though...
"You're love of the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your mind"
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Loresilme
Valinor
Nov 12 2013, 7:06pm
Post #17 of 34
(628 views)
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Also the dialogue in the interrogation scene was pretty simplistic I agree, but bear in mind they were interrogating an orc, it's not like they were going to spew poetry on him.
You make a good point there.
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Dame Ioreth
Tol Eressea
Nov 12 2013, 7:15pm
Post #18 of 34
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These books are written in homage to classic heroic tales. It would be cheesy in the context of a movie set in modern times using modern themes, but that is not what this is or was ever meant to be. They don't sound like modern language and they shouldn't.
Where there's life there's hope, and need of vittles.
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings
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Darkstone
Immortal
Nov 12 2013, 7:16pm
Post #19 of 34
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Can't be cheesier than the original two-film LOTR screenplay.
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ARAGORN (to Arwen): Your people raised me as one of their own. I cannot repay them by taking away their brightest jewel...their Evenstar.
ARWEN: Did you come here to fill me with despair? It is the mortal trait I least admire.
ARAGORN: I came here to try to make you understand...Arwen, you must return across the sea and dwell with your people in Valinor. It is the way it must be.
ARWEN (frustrated): My life is with you, or I have no life!
ARAGORN SHAKES HIS HEAD
ARAGORN (quietly): No...
ARWEN (frustrated): Oh, you stubborn....Man!
****
GIMLI (to Nazgul): Pick on somebody yer own size, ye overstuffed buzzard!
THROWS AXE WHICH STICKS IN NAZGUL'S HEAD
****
GANDALF (being assisted downhill by Legolas): Blast! Why did the Valar send me here in this old man´s body? How did they think I could serve Middle-earth in this decrepit carcass?
(BTW, the last was rumored to be included in the FOTR-EE in the days before its release, so apparently it's a candidate for the EEE.)
Anyway, a lot depends on context. People thought Gandalf's "They are coming." line in Moria was cheesy from just the FOTR trailer, and Celeborn's rather cheesy sounding "Tell me where is Gandalf for I much desire to speak with him" line in the theatrical FOTR sounds much better in the EE.
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“Indeed if fish had fish-lore and Wise-fish it is probable that the business of anglers would be very little hindered.”
-JRR Tolkien
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FaramirAndEowynMorningStar
Rohan
Nov 12 2013, 7:24pm
Post #20 of 34
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No offence, but in my opinion they aren't cheesy lines at all.
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Firstly, "You like death? Well let me give it to you!" I found made me gasp - it shows us that she'll kill Orcs when she has/wants to.
Secondly, on the matter of Elizabeth in POTC, she said "Try wearing a corset," was quite humorous (not cheesy) because at the start of POTC she has to wear a corset and she faints because she cannot breathe - a little funny reminder of that incident.
Thirdly, I found "I've never been so wrong in all my life," quite a touching moment - it shows that for the first time ever he had been wrong about something/someone, and his 'soft side' emerges [right before the dangerous part of the journey - and, if I might add, will probably be the last time he smiles until he gets his home back] and sets a light mood for the end of the film. I don't think he was actually pranking when he said that, I think he really meant it, because he was angry that Bilbo had intervened but was glad he had.
I am not saying that this is the 'right' idea about it, but this is my opinion.
 ..The Lord of Silver Fountains
.....The King of Carven Stone
..The King Under the Mountain
.......Shall come into his own
..And the bells will ring in gladness
......At the Mountain King's return
..But all shall fail in sadness
....And the lake will shine and burn
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Endor Dweller
Bree
Nov 12 2013, 8:54pm
Post #21 of 34
(536 views)
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The line "Answer the question, filth."
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bothers me more. It doesn't sound elvish to me.
- Good morning.
- What do you mean? Do you mean to wish me a good morning, or do you mean that it is a good morning whether I want it or not? Or perhaps you mean to say that you feel good on this particular morning...or are you simply stating that this is a morning to be good on?
- Good evening.
- Yes, yes it is. Though I think it might rain later.
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tarasaurus
Rohan
Nov 12 2013, 9:23pm
Post #22 of 34
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with Thorin and Bilbo. Makes me tear up when I watch it.
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Glorfindela
Valinor
Nov 12 2013, 11:10pm
Post #23 of 34
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I think whether or not wording sounds cringeworthy depends a lot on the actor, as well – on the delivery of the words and the talent of an actor, in other words. I don't recall ever thinking this about anything said by Gandalf, Balin, Thorin, or old or young Bilbo (including in LOTR for the actors that appeared in those films). On the other hand, when it comes to LOTR I can think of a number of cringeworthy, badly expressed lines from Legolas, Gimli, Merry and Pippin, for example – ones that I felt embarrassed even listening to.
with Thorin and Bilbo. Makes me tear up when I watch it.
(This post was edited by Glorfindela on Nov 12 2013, 11:14pm)
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tarasaurus
Rohan
Nov 12 2013, 11:15pm
Post #24 of 34
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I hate to say it, but I think Legolas is the worst. Bless Orlando's soul, but he is just such a corny actor, possibly without intending to be. He is a squinty-eye actor, I think he acts more with his eyes squinted than much else.
One of my favorite lines of the trilogy (if not my very favorite line) is Sam's Two Towers speech about the good in the world to Frodo. Relaying what you said, I think it depends on the actor's ability to get the emotion across without forcing it.
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Barrow-Wight
Rohan
Nov 12 2013, 11:15pm
Post #25 of 34
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are those transcripts real if so where did you find them?
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