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boldog
Rohan
Nov 11 2013, 5:45am
Post #1 of 15
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language understanding between races
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I was just watching Thor2 today, and what got my attention was the fact that malekith speaks his own language to his people, but when communicating with other races he speaks English. This made me realise something. Why doesn't azog do this to thorin when he speaks to him in the out of the frying pan scene.? Surely thorin didn't understand a word azog was saying. Wouldn't azog rather have thorin understand what he is saying? We know clearly that the elves will speak english to the other races but why not azog??? This is something that frustrates me. If he wants to intimidate his enemies by words, why speak in a language that isn't understood by them, so that they don't really know what he is saying. This is something I hope Jackson fixes up in the next two films. I want azog and thorin to exchange words that they both understand before they duel it out....
Thoughts????
"And do you really think, Thorin Oakenshield, that Bolg will have the slightest symphony for you? After he watched you hack his fathers hand off, so ruthlessly in Moria. Azogs defeat has brought nothing to you, only refuelled hate of his kin, upon yours"
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marcuspaine
Bree
Nov 11 2013, 5:58am
Post #2 of 15
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Maybe Azog is only fluent in Orkish?
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I enjoy that he, along with the other orcs in his group, speak Orkish exclusively. It differentiates them from the more modern orcs we see in the Lord of the Rings trilogy.
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patrickk
Rohan
Nov 11 2013, 6:04am
Post #3 of 15
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...which we hear as English; and I thought Azong did speak it.
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Fredeghar Wayfarer
Lorien
Nov 11 2013, 9:08am
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We never hear him use the Common Speech
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It's possible he doesn't know it, only Orkish or the Black Speech. Maybe Jackson is trying to show that Azog and his kin are more isolated far in the north at Mount Gundabad.
As for Thorin not understanding him, he certainly would pick up on the mocking tone and facial expressions. Plus, Azog being alive at all is enough to antagonize him (a feeling many fans sympathize with. Zing! Sorry, couldn't resist  ).
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deskp
Lorien
Nov 11 2013, 10:47am
Post #5 of 15
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I hope Azog never speaks english.
and I kindof believe Azog is too proud an orc to not use his native language, Similar to how some old french people refuse to use english in interviews.
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Lieutenant of Dol Guldur
Gondor
Nov 11 2013, 10:50am
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I guess if an usual Orc like the one from that interrogation scene is able to speak the common tongue... why should'nt Azog be able to use it too?
"There is only one Lord of the Ring, only one who can bend it to his will. And he does not share power."
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MatthewJer18
Rohan
Nov 11 2013, 10:51am
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That's a good point about pride.
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It's possible that Azog is too proud to communicate in anything but his native tongue. He certainly strikes me as that type of character.
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Old Pilgrim
Rivendell
Nov 11 2013, 12:31pm
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and I believe he can talk in common tongue like most other Orcs can but he simply prefer to use his own language because he is so full of himself and hate anything unorchish. Perhaps we will yet hear him talking in commong tongue in his final battle with Thorin because if they will only fighting that wouldn't have so much effect as if they are also talking to each other and trying to hurt one another using words.
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Glorfindela
Valinor
Nov 11 2013, 12:38pm
Post #9 of 15
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I do love Azog's deep voice and the way he speaks Orkish – wouldn't particularly like him to speak English.
I enjoy that he, along with the other orcs in his group, speak Orkish exclusively. It differentiates them from the more modern orcs we see in the Lord of the Rings trilogy.
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Dame Ioreth
Tol Eressea
Nov 11 2013, 2:15pm
Post #10 of 15
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I personally think it's more intimidating
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to hear him speak in orcish. It shows a disdain for the person to whom he is speaking.
Besides, I don't think he's trying to intimidate Thorin with his words. He doesn't need to. His presence alone is enough to put Thorin back on his heels for a moment. That is plain to see in Thorin's reaction. The speech he makes about fear, etc I think is really for the benefit of his followers, playing to the audience, so to speak. It may appear that he is talking only to Thorin, but he really making a point to his followers about his own prowess. 'I remember when I killed this guy's grandfather. He was a coward. etc etc' He's ramping up his followers for the kill.
Where there's life there's hope, and need of vittles.
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings
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FoFo64
Rivendell
Nov 11 2013, 5:27pm
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Pardon my ignorance, but is it certain that he speaks the Black Speech when he says that he smells the scent of fear on them? Was he not speaking Dwarvish in that one moment just to have Thorin understand? I get confused cause I feel like Dwarvish and the Black Speech sound kinda similar to the ear. Which may be on purpose considering both races histories are so intricately tied. (ie. Aule having created the Dwarves, Sauron having been a student of Aule etc.)
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Dame Ioreth
Tol Eressea
Nov 11 2013, 5:58pm
Post #12 of 15
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I assumed it was black speech because I can't tell the difference even if I really listen. That does change things, doesn't it!
This would have been a better question to ask the original poster.
Where there's life there's hope, and need of vittles.
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings
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Kim
Valinor
Nov 11 2013, 6:43pm
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That was mentioned in the EE. There weren't any comments on whether or not Thorin could actually understand it though.
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FoFo64
Rivendell
Nov 11 2013, 6:56pm
Post #14 of 15
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Being a destined King among Dwarves and a presumably learned Dwarf, we could speculate that Thorin can understand the Black Speech. However, Thorin's reaction in that scene is also ambiguous enough that it is entirely possible that he may not have understood it. So I think both possibilities are possible, with the little information we have to go by.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Nov 11 2013, 8:33pm
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I enjoy that he, along with the other orcs in his group, speak Orkish exclusively. It differentiates them from the more modern orcs we see in the Lord of the Rings trilogy.
If I recall rightly, Azog and his followers generally use the Black Speech rather than Orkish. Not that that would be much help to Thorin, who should not know the Black Speech. If Azog actually used Orkish, Thorin might understand him.
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
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