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The Silmarillion movie

RangerLady23
Lorien

Nov 8 2013, 6:14pm

Post #1 of 11 (277 views)
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The Silmarillion movie Can't Post

I know it has been discussed on the forums before but I just wanted to say this about PJ doing the Silmarillion at some point.
I think that Peter and his team are doing a fantastic job with the Hobbit and it has not been too big a disappointment to me, but I really think he and his team hit their stride with LotR and in that frame of mind, I don't think the Silmarillion should be filmed.
It is a great piece of writing and I think it is sacred and should be left alone if it can't be done justice and right now I don't know if it would be.
The Hobbit is great and not the let-down that many fans were afraid of, but look at it's reception and awards record and box office compared to the trilogy. Not quite the same is it?
Nor is it received by fans in the same way either.
I think the Lord of the Rings was Peter Jackson's crown jewel and after finishing the Hobbit, he should go on filming other movies of his choice and leave J.R.R Tolkien alone.
Even as much as I want to continue going to Middle-earth in theaters, I just don't feel it's right.


malickfan
Gondor


Nov 8 2013, 8:44pm

Post #2 of 11 (157 views)
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Agreed for far too many reasons for me to list [In reply to] Can't Post

The Silmarillion is probably my favorite book, but I have approximately zero interest in seeing it ever adapted for TV or Film, it would have to change, invent or rewrite so much of the books themes scale and tone it would scarcely be Tolkien's Silmarillion, and frankly after reading the HOME and Letters, it's really something I don't think is necessary or appropriate-in any case I like having my own images, I don't want to see some loosely inspired fan fiction warping the story for the masses.

Jackson and co, their skills as filmmakers non withstanding, to me personally have neither the knowledge or desire to make a Silmarillion film-Jackson will have spent over a decade and a half involved in Midddle Earth by the time TABA comes around, so I'd rather see him move on to something new, he admitted in an interview he only read LOTR once before getting the film-rights, and Phillpa Boyens the biggest fan of the screenwriting trio hasn't read The Silmarillion in 25 years-to me that says something about their credentials as Tolkien fans (admittedly not all necessary to make a good film-the Zimmerman script was written by a self confessed fan...).

In anycase I highly Doubt the Tolkien estate would want the stress or responsibilities that go with filming, even if they were open to selling the rights (the ongoging lawsuits don't help matters)

Just my (very biased ill informed) thoughts

I don't have much to say.



Ziggy Stardust
Gondor


Nov 9 2013, 1:34am

Post #3 of 11 (119 views)
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Well said [In reply to] Can't Post

And I agree. LOTR was done very well. It was Jackson's crown jewel. As much as I enjoyed AUJ, I wish PJ & Co. had given it the same care and attention as they did LOTR. That being said, while I enjoyed AUJ, there were things that should've been done differently, and other things which shouldn't have been done at all. But I still liked it. But, after what he's done with that, (and what they might do with DoS and TABA) I don't want them touching The Silmarillion.


Quote
The Hobbit is great and not the let-down that many fans were afraid of, but look at it's reception and awards record and box office compared to the trilogy. Not quite the same is it?


I'm really hoping DoS will be great, but sadly I'm afraid it can end up a big letdown.


Mikah
Lorien

Nov 9 2013, 3:19pm

Post #4 of 11 (102 views)
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I do agree with you here... [In reply to] Can't Post

I have a friend who are very much Tolkien purist. There are some changes that were made to both the Lord of the Rings Trilogy and The Hobbit that he did not much care for. Honestly, the changes did not bother me so much. I still loved the movies. However, my friend made his point when he said "I wonder how you would feel if these liberties were taken if The Silmarillion were to be filmed." At that point I was more empathetic to his point of view. The Silmarillion is my favorite book and I believe that it is perfect the way it is. I do not believe that a piece of literature so beautifully written can be done justice, by PJ or anyone that I am familiar with. This is not a knock to PJ, I love his movies. But as Malickfan pointed out, I would not want to see it torn apart for mass consumption.


nandorin elf
Bree

Nov 9 2013, 11:04pm

Post #5 of 11 (81 views)
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I agree [In reply to] Can't Post

I completely agree with you.

The LOTR movies are my favorite movies, but there are still times when I wish they were closer to the books. I am not as attached to The Hobbit, but there are still parts that I think deviate too far from the book. As much as I admire the work PJ and the rest have done, I don't want them adapting the Sil because I fear they would try to make it more accessible, and in doing so, they would lose what makes it so beautiful and unique.

I love the Silmarillion for the very reasons that make it nearly impossible to film. It's written in an archaic style which I love, but there is not much dialogue or description of everyday life. It covers thousands of years and tons of characters with similar names and minimal characterizations. Reading it is like looking at a nebula through a telescope: it's beautiful but distant. Take for example, the confrontation between Finrod and Sauron which is one of my favorite scenes. The magic duel works in the poetry, but I fear it would look silly on screen. The Sil creates emotions through the language that I think would be very, very hard to recreate visually.
Understand, I don't know how it could be filmed, so I'm not trashing PJ, Boyens, and Walsh. I just don't want it filmed in its entirety by anyone. The fan film that is in the works called Storm Over Gondolin looks like it has potential since it is only trying to tell one part of the Sil.

Well, that was longer than I thought it would be. I hope my rambling makes some sense.


FaramirFan
The Shire

Nov 11 2013, 4:52pm

Post #6 of 11 (64 views)
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Think Silmarillion might be better movie materiel. [In reply to] Can't Post

You know, I think the Silmarillion might be better movie source materiel. I actually signed on to this forum to disagree here. Smile

I'm somewhat disappointed with Jackson's treatment of The Hobbit. For many reasons, shared it seems by some of the posters in these forums. (There's one review here written by a gentleman named Demosthenes that's about 80% aligned w/my own views, others have voiced the remainder of my reservations, felt no need to do a "me too" validation.)

To summarize Hobbit reservations quickly in my own words, though, I'm a purist. I don't mind *additional* material - elaboration of Radagast's role etc. is outside canonical scope, hence fair game. Mis-characterizations of beloved figures, not so much.

The advantage of the Silmarillion, however, is that it's not as detailed. Necessarily so, as it spans hundreds of years. It's more or less an outline as-is, more akin to the appendices really. If a filmmaker were to flesh-out one or two of the stories, it would qualify as "additional material" to me.

Plus - if you're going to go about "darkening" a children's story, heck, start with material that's already "dark". For the Hobbit I'd have been perfectly happy with extended party scenes, pastoral wandering and inane dialogue with nary a swordfight to be seen. If you have to go that way to sell tickets, welp, Silmarillion's your huckleberry.


FaramirFan
The Shire

Nov 11 2013, 5:21pm

Post #7 of 11 (53 views)
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can't edit? oh... [In reply to] Can't Post

Oh, goodness, can't edit my posts here!! Sorry, noob. will figure things out. add:

I'm also afraid that if they dont' do a Silmarillion movie (or Lost Tales or related HoME), that'll be the end of Tolkien movies. Which I'm just not ready for. Unsure

edit: oh, you can edit, but only for a little while ?? okay


(This post was edited by FaramirFan on Nov 11 2013, 5:22pm)


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Nov 11 2013, 8:09pm

Post #8 of 11 (52 views)
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The issue of filmrights aside... [In reply to] Can't Post

I think that a direct film adaptation of The Silmarillion would be nigh impossible. The narrative is too fragmented over too much time. One would have to pick-out individual stories from within The Sil (such as "Of Beren and Luthien") and adapt them that way. All of the Akallabeth could probably be turned into a movie, but it would requre a lot of dramatic license since the story and characters are presented in such broad strokes.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


malickfan
Gondor


Nov 11 2013, 8:15pm

Post #9 of 11 (41 views)
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Hi FaramirFan welcome to TORn [In reply to] Can't Post

Smile

Always Glad to see new faces, in answer to your query about editing, there is a 10 minute (rougly) editing window for editing you post, although you can ask a forum Moderator for assistance by going to TheOneRing.Net sub forum then 'Feedback' (don't worry they don't bite!).

As I made clear earlier I'm going to have to disagree, I personally am quite ready for the end of Middle Earth (or New Zealand and CGI adverts depending on your point of view) films for the time being, and I don't think some loosely based fan fiction action films for the masses would do justice or be appropriate for what Tolkien sepnt his life doing with the Silmarillion (I do partially agree with you about The Hobbit films but that's another story).

My views of this subject have been made clear numerous times before, but this more or less sums up my concerns:

http://nerdalicious.com.au/books/why-peter-jackson-will-never-film-the-silmarillion/

http://www.containsmoderateperil.com/the-silmarillion-movie-no-thank-you/

This also stuck with me from an interview I was reading earlier today:

You mentioned the rights issues with adapting The Silmarillion as a series of films. If the Tolkien estate were amenable to such an endeavor, do you think its numerous stories would translate well to film? Are there any stories from The Silmarillion that you’d personally like to see adapted?

I think adapting any portion of The Silmarillion would be substantially more complicated–and controversial–than adapting The Hobbit was. The Biblical tone of much of the work is likely untranslatable to film, as is the sense of narrative remove and the vast swaths of time involved. I think an adaptation of The Silmarillion that is true to the superlative creative core of that specific text, while also in keeping with Tolkien’s broader vision of Middle Earth, would probably look something like Terrence Malick’s The Tree of Life (2011)–in other words, it would require experimental shooting and narrative techniques and would be panned by most of those inclined to enjoy Hollywood’s present, big-budget take on the epic. So much of what seems dry and factual on the page would need to be presented as ethereal and impressionistic on the silver screen, and I don’t think Tolkien fans would have the patience for it.

To the extent the stories of The Silmarillion are, in situ, a mythological haze that hangs invisibly over Middle Earth–reified in song and statue, yes, but never touched, in their essence, except in the waking and sleeping visions of individual dwarves, elves, goblins, orcs, wizards, and men–you wouldn’t want to falsely crystallize them into what could easily look like a Middle Earth documentary. Shall we tell the story of the Founding of the World as though it were the Battle of the Pelennor Fields? Reimagine Valinor using a simply more sumptuous version of the existing Rivendell set? Can we speak of the beings in The Silmarillion, let alone portray them in film, as just grander versions of the Heroes of the Fellowship? No; if you’re going to cast a film almost entirely with gods, godlike creatures, and legendary personae, you have to employ a visual style that establishes these entities and the events they produce and move through as being somehow beyond our immediate understanding. Jackson would likely not be the appropriate director for such a work, as too many expectations incongruous with such an adaptation already attach, even now, to his projects. We would need, instead, a director, and a screenwriter, with whom our expectations would run much closer to what we’d call an “art house film.”

So I guess I’d say that, failing those prerequisites being met, I don’t think I’d want to see The Silmarillion adapted at all. And so I can’t predict which stories from the book I’d most want to see adapted, as the style of adaptation I’d consider most appropriate would constitute an artistic vision well beyond (at least in cinematic terms) my present understanding or my ability to anticipate.

Sorry for rambling as you can tell this is something I get fired up about.

In anycase welcome to TORn!.

I don't have much to say.



FaramirFan
The Shire

Nov 11 2013, 10:05pm

Post #10 of 11 (34 views)
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No stress [In reply to] Can't Post

No stress, if that's getting worked up I'm going to have to watch my step. Blush Dude, this is all totally beer chat, there is no "right" or "wrong".

Filming "The Silmarillion" is clearly impossible. It'd have to be a selection, and it would take creative effort - unlike LotR or the Hobbit, where the story's already there and all you need is an adaptation. The most germane objection I see is the "wouldn't want to falsely crystallize" problem, but then that didn't stop them from turning Orcs into supersoldiers or my namesake from one who says, "I would not take this thing, if it lay by the highway" to someone who kidnaps the Ringbearer and hauls him halfway to Minas Tirith, argh! The problem's there, a filmmaker is going to exercise creative control, and mostly for the worse - if only because Tolkien's a very, very difficult act to follow.

But the problem isn't one of "...cast a film almost entirely of gods, godlike creatures, and legendary personae" unless you choose to make it so. One chapter of the Silmarillion is as many films as you'd care to make, you don't need to tell the story of the world. You do, however, need to find someone, definitely not Jackson, true to Tolkien's mythology to flesh out the story. (Guy Gavriel Kay leaps to mind.)

I believe any treatment up to Clash of Titans scale is eminently do-able and will become more so. The story, though? That's the issue to me. But perhaps we're agreeing, in that Jackson as director/creator, not so sure if we don't see it the same way partially. (I need to read your links.)


RangerLady23
Lorien

Nov 12 2013, 6:49pm

Post #11 of 11 (33 views)
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Good feedback [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for all your opinions and I'm glad my writing style made sense. Sometimes I get in too big of a hurry, go back and read it and it makes no sense and I have to edit, edit, edit!
I love PJ's work, especially his work with LotR, so I am NOT knocking him or his team. {God Forbid} I just got to thinking the other day that the time didn't feel right after seeing his first installment of the Hobbit and it may never feel right.
Thanks for your input!

 
 

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