|
Do you enjoy the 100% volunteer, not for profit services of TheOneRing.net? Consider a donation!
|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
OhioHobbit
Gondor
Jan 11 2008, 10:42am
Views: 845
Shortcut
|
|
Movie Technical Discussion 1 - Book to Script
|
Can't Post
|
|
My qualifications for leading this discussion are -
1. I have seen some movies, (not very many).
2. I have watched the extras on the LOTR extended DVDs.
3. I watched the King Kong Production Diaries.
So, I am doing this as a complete layman. I don’t think that I will be making any movies any time soon, but I would like to know a little about how all of this works and hope that you would too. And I hope that we can have some fun finding out. So, here we go.
First you need a script!
A whole lot has been said about how the books were turned into movies, about how things that work in a book do not work in a movie, about pacing, building tension, character arc and so on. But don’t let that stop anyone, everything is open for discussion.
However, if you didn’t like how something was done in The Lord of the Rings here is your chance. How would you turn The Hobbit into a movie or do a particular scene from The Hobbit? Any particular favorite moments that you have visions of how you would do it?
Someone who had a great deal in influence on Peter Jackson’s writing early on was Robert McKee. According to Peter Jackson’s biography, Robert McKee is "Hollywood’s guru of gurus" for learning how to write a movie script. In 1983, he started presenting seminars on "Story." In 1988, he gave a talk in Wellington. Peter Jackson and Fran Walsh went to the seminar and both were enthusiastic about what McKee had to say. McKee’s thesis on story structure rests on two hypotheses:
"Story is Supreme – Characters are what they do. Story events impact the characters and characters impact events. Actions and reactions create revelation and insight, opening the door to a meaningful emotional experience for the audience.
"Structure is Character – Story is what elevates a movie, transforming a good film into a great one. Movie-making is a collaborative endeavour . . . but the screenwriter is the only original artist on a film. Everyone else – the actors, directors, cameramen, production designers, editors, special effects wizards, and so on – are interpretive artists, trying to bring alive the world, the events and the characters that the screenwriter has invented and created." (1.)
According to Peter Jackson, "McKee taught us that a film story is made up of different ‘acts’, like the acts in a stage play, each of which has certain things to achieve. He talked about establishing the turning-points in a screenplay; how the set-up should be handled and what he calls ‘the inciting incident’, which is the moment, about ten or fifteen minutes into the film, when you suddenly realise what the film is about and the viewer says, ‘Right! So this is the story . . . ’
"In The Fellowship of the Ring it is the moment where the Ring passes to Frodo. At that moment our story defines itself – it’s the tale of Frodo Baggins and the powerful ring he possesses.
"The Lord of the Rings was not just written, but also edited, with McKee’s principles of story structure in mind. When as we did, you begin editing the film during the course of shooting and then spend time shooting pick-ups, the structure can easily get a bit loose. So, what we did on Rings was to take a look at our first cut, where you actually have everything you’ve shot in the movie; you then reappraise it again, using McKee’s theories." (2.)
In the Fan Club magazine, Philippa Boyens said, "I don’t think a lot of people realize that the dialogue is pretty much the least of our worries. Your biggest job as a writer is the structure, the storytelling, and the way in which you are going to use this medium of film to tell that story." (3.)
According to the Appendices of the three The Lord of the Rings movies, Fran and Peter took the three books of LOTR and wrote a 90-page treatment. Philippa Boyens read this treatment in 1997. The script was being written and rewritten for the whole filming. Philippa said that The Two Towers was the hardest to write. And because they couldn’t have the two great climaxes of Helm’s Deep and Shelob in The Two Towers, Faramir had to become an obstruction since Frodo wouldn’t have any obstructions in a rewritten story line without Shelob. They had to give Faramir a character arc since he didn’t have one in the book. (4.)
Peter said, in the extras DVD, "You don’t stop making the movie and we really were just always rewriting scenes and writing new scenes and shooting stuff and tweaking the films and stuff, and constantly, constantly challenging ourselves, really, to try to think of last minute improvements . . . At the very beginning of this process, we’d identified the spine of our movies being Frodo taking the ring to Mordor; which means that the climax of our movies is Frodo destroying the ring . . . You never just say this is perfect. You know, you’re always fighting and grappling with yourself to try to push it further and further and take every opportunity you can." (5.)
Here is a list of websites about writing screen plays:
http://mckeestory.com/
http://www.fathom.com/course/21701762/session3.html
http://www.cod.edu/people/faculty/pruter/film/threeact.htm
http://www.writersstore.com/article.php?articles_id=555
http://www.writerswrite.com/screenwriting/lecture4.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screenwriting
http://story.exis.net/masterlink/fictmedi.htm
Can you think of any book to movie adaptations, other than LOTR, that you thought were really good?
Can you think of any book to movie adaptations, other than LOTR, that you thought were really bad?
I realize that you must follow the rules of good screen writing, but can you follow them too closely? Can you be too formula?
How do you decide how long a movie is going to be? That determines a lot about what stays in and what comes out and how the story will be structured. You only have so much time to tell the story. I know that one thing is just how much the average audience can take. When was the last time that a movie came out that had an intermission? 2001, A Space Odyssey had one. I also know that the studios don’t want a movie to be more than X minutes long so that they can get Y number of showings in a day.
So, questions, comments, suggestions, opinions?
Sources:
1. http://burakargin.blogspot.com/2007/05/robert-mckee-story-semineri.html
2. Peter Jackson: A Film-maker’s Journey, p. 158
3. The Lord of the Rings Fan Club Official Movie Magazine (#18, pp. 26-29)
4. The Fellowship of the Ring Extended Edition DVD, The Appendices, disk 3, "From Book to Script"
5. The Return of the King Extended Edition DVD, The Appendices, disk 5, "From Book to Script: Forging the Final Chapter"
|
|
|
|
Subject
|
User
|
Time
|
Movie Technical Discussion 1 - Book to Script
|
OhioHobbit
|
Jan 11 2008, 10:42am
|
It's all about telling a good story
|
Amon Amarth
|
Jan 11 2008, 4:25pm
|
|
adaptations
|
acheron
|
Jan 11 2008, 4:31pm
|
|
"The Hunt for Red October"...
|
N.E. Brigand
|
Jan 11 2008, 7:41pm
|
|
Sometimes linear isn't always linear
|
Amon Amarth
|
Jan 11 2008, 8:40pm
|
|
Why? //
|
N.E. Brigand
|
Jan 11 2008, 9:11pm
|
|
Formula and boring-ness
|
Tim
|
Jan 11 2008, 9:17pm
|
|
good argument...
|
weaver
|
Jan 11 2008, 9:34pm
|
|
Good points about formula
|
Amon Amarth
|
Jan 11 2008, 9:48pm
|
|
Insert Required Subject Line Here
|
Tim
|
Jan 11 2008, 10:13pm
|
|
Not sure about Tolkien.
|
N.E. Brigand
|
Jan 12 2008, 12:52am
|
|
I tend to agree with you
|
Lily Fairbairn
|
Jan 11 2008, 9:51pm
|
|
Subject Line is Required
|
Tim
|
Jan 11 2008, 10:51pm
|
|
Book vs Movie Aragorn
|
Ainu Laire
|
Jan 12 2008, 8:08am
|
|
I agree..
|
elostirion74
|
Jan 11 2008, 10:58pm
|
|
Great post, 5 by 5.
|
hobbitlove
|
Jan 12 2008, 9:23pm
|
|
Thanks
|
Tim
|
Jan 13 2008, 6:00am
|
|
Lots of good stuff!
|
OhioHobbit
|
Jan 12 2008, 1:00am
|
|
That's the bottom line
|
Amon Amarth
|
Jan 12 2008, 1:11am
|
|
Definitely
|
Ainu Laire
|
Jan 12 2008, 8:01am
|
|
Some comments:
|
Alcarcalime
|
Jan 12 2008, 1:16am
|
|
Ah....
|
Patty
|
Jan 11 2008, 7:01pm
|
|
The inciting incident,
|
OhioHobbit
|
Jan 12 2008, 1:04am
|
|
What is the inciting incident in the Hobbit?
|
weaver
|
Jan 12 2008, 5:05pm
|
|
"Then Mr. Baggins turned the handle and went in."
|
squire
|
Jan 12 2008, 6:03pm
|
|
better than my choice...
|
weaver
|
Jan 12 2008, 7:01pm
|
|
And the female lead in King Kong was...
|
Amon Amarth
|
Jan 12 2008, 7:55pm
|
|
Perfect! Do you write screenplays? Maybe you should.
|
hobbitlove
|
Jan 12 2008, 8:28pm
|
|
I'm thinking
|
grammaboodawg
|
Jan 12 2008, 10:28pm
|
|
In my haste...
|
OhioHobbit
|
Jan 12 2008, 12:56pm
|
|
I agree!
|
grammaboodawg
|
Jan 12 2008, 10:32pm
|
|
Readers and non-readers.
|
wolfranger
|
Jan 11 2008, 8:25pm
|
|
Books Fans
|
OhioHobbit
|
Jan 12 2008, 1:08am
|
|
Indeed.
|
wolfranger
|
Jan 12 2008, 1:41am
|
|
If the subject line is empty I can't post wwaaaahhhh!
|
Tim
|
Jan 12 2008, 1:42am
|
|
The reason for that...
|
N.E. Brigand
|
Jan 12 2008, 6:18am
|
|
Hmm,
|
Alcarcalime
|
Jan 12 2008, 1:17am
|
|
Nice intro!
|
weaver
|
Jan 11 2008, 9:01pm
|
|
Film novelizations
|
Amon Amarth
|
Jan 11 2008, 9:15pm
|
|
Thanks, Weaver,
|
OhioHobbit
|
Jan 12 2008, 12:47am
|
|
Is a movie just another branch of communications theory?
|
elostirion74
|
Jan 11 2008, 9:09pm
|
|
That's funny about Potter.
|
N.E. Brigand
|
Jan 11 2008, 9:16pm
|
|
a comment
|
elostirion74
|
Jan 11 2008, 11:06pm
|
|
Potter #3 (Cuaron) is the best, by far.
|
Elizabeth
|
Jan 12 2008, 3:46am
|
|
"I, Robot" didn't totally abandon its sources.
|
N.E. Brigand
|
Jan 12 2008, 6:27am
|
|
I guess I should have added..
|
elostirion74
|
Jan 11 2008, 10:43pm
|
|
May have followed McKee's formula.
|
OhioHobbit
|
Jan 12 2008, 12:48pm
|
|
Interesting list of other films using this formula...
|
weaver
|
Jan 12 2008, 5:21pm
|
|
I notice with those lists though ...
|
Elven
|
Jan 12 2008, 6:06pm
|
|
Watching a lot of movies helps
|
Amon Amarth
|
Jan 12 2008, 7:31pm
|
|
Thanks for your list.
|
elostirion74
|
Jan 14 2008, 5:18pm
|
|
Brilliant! Not surprising though...
|
hobbitlove
|
Jan 11 2008, 11:25pm
|
|
Answers and additional thoughts
|
Amon Amarth
|
Jan 12 2008, 12:36am
|
|
Questions
|
OhioHobbit
|
Jan 12 2008, 2:44am
|
|
As you say, answers are hard; I'm still learning to ask the questions. = )
|
hobbitlove
|
Jan 12 2008, 8:26pm
|
|
My response to that questions is...
|
OhioHobbit
|
Jan 13 2008, 1:36am
|
|
Traditional vs "modern" storytelling
|
Sunflower
|
Jan 13 2008, 5:17am
|
|
I have never written a story,
|
OhioHobbit
|
Jan 13 2008, 5:44pm
|
|
It's tricky, dating "The Silmarillion".
|
N.E. Brigand
|
Jan 14 2008, 3:57am
|
|
"the screenwriter is the only original artist on a film"
|
squire
|
Jan 12 2008, 4:08am
|
|
"The best films are primarily visual, rather than text-driven"
|
N.E. Brigand
|
Jan 12 2008, 6:23am
|
|
Written by a screenwriter.
|
OhioHobbit
|
Jan 12 2008, 1:01pm
|
|
Director as Main Author of Film aka "Auteur"
|
Amon Amarth
|
Jan 12 2008, 3:47pm
|
|
1950s, actually.
|
N.E. Brigand
|
Jan 12 2008, 4:54pm
|
|
Trying to understand the method and the maddness ... :D
|
Elven
|
Jan 12 2008, 4:26pm
|
|
Terrific post, Elven! Wow!
|
hobbitlove
|
Jan 12 2008, 8:34pm
|
|
*wild applause* Awesome post! *runs to reread* //
|
grammaboodawg
|
Jan 12 2008, 10:39pm
|
|
Like Hobbitlove said,
|
OhioHobbit
|
Jan 13 2008, 1:35am
|
|
I'm staggered. This is astounding!
|
grammaboodawg
|
Jan 12 2008, 9:22pm
|
|
Gee, Gramma,
|
OhioHobbit
|
Jan 13 2008, 1:31am
|
|
Adaptations - characters or story?
|
entmaiden
|
Jan 13 2008, 3:07pm
|
|
That's a really interesting aspect entmaiden ..
|
Elven
|
Jan 13 2008, 3:28pm
|
|
I think one of my greatest fears...
|
OhioHobbit
|
Jan 13 2008, 5:45pm
|
|
Wow
|
Peredhil lover
|
Jan 13 2008, 6:59pm
|
|
Disney Hobbits
|
Sunflower
|
Jan 13 2008, 8:22pm
|
|
Ahem :-)
|
Tim
|
Jan 13 2008, 8:50pm
|
|
PS
|
Sunflower
|
Jan 13 2008, 8:50pm
|
|
No problem
|
Tim
|
Jan 13 2008, 9:09pm
|
|
OMG
|
Peredhil lover
|
Jan 13 2008, 9:10pm
|
|
With apologies to OhioHobbit....
|
Sunflower
|
Jan 14 2008, 12:04am
|
|
New thread
|
Sunflower
|
Jan 14 2008, 12:32am
|
|
Um, Disney doesn't own MGM
|
entmaiden
|
Jan 14 2008, 2:08am
|
|
Oops.
|
Sunflower
|
Jan 14 2008, 3:44am
|
|
|
|
