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dormouse
Half-elven
Nov 7 2013, 2:17pm
Post #26 of 69
(439 views)
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You think I should share the angst? ;-)
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No, I know you don't. Reading the 'Oh no, supposing they.... [insert your own nightmare]...' posts in here I'm always reminded of one of Joyce Grenfell's poems, which most people here are probably too young to remember and which, for all I know, never made it across the Atlantic anyway. In said poem a young girl has been glammed up for her first ball, but when the moment comes she refuses everyone who asks her to dance. Her mother is furious and wants to know why, and the girl says,
I thought, if we dance, he'll admire my new dress
Perhaps he'll propose and I'll have to say yes.
I thought of my marriage, and then where it led;
Estrangement, divorce, how I wish I were dead!
I thought of my children, and that's why I said,
"Oh no, I'm afraid I don't dance!"
(To get the full flavour you have to read it in tones of rising panic)
That's a very good point about Gandalf. I wonder if they'll include the sling.....
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor
Nov 7 2013, 2:24pm
Post #27 of 69
(420 views)
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If they do, some people might not have any hair left! ;-)
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I wonder if they'll include the sling.....
Imagine the hair-pulling if Gandalf is injured by a mere Orc?
I like that poem a lot. It definitely highlights the dangers of excessive "what-ifs?".
'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'
The Hall of Fire
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Darkstone
Immortal
Nov 7 2013, 2:49pm
Post #28 of 69
(419 views)
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I missed the "Gandalf as Steve Martin" bit from Moria.
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“The Bridge of Khazad-Dűm” with Scooter as Frodo and Steve Martin as Gandalf.
Arrows fell among them. One struck Frodo and sprang back. Another pierced Gandalf's hat and stuck there like a black feather.
-The Bridge of Khazad-dűm
******************************************
“Indeed if fish had fish-lore and Wise-fish it is probable that the business of anglers would be very little hindered.”
-JRR Tolkien
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Aitieuriskon
Lorien
Nov 7 2013, 3:31pm
Post #29 of 69
(408 views)
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A spoiler-heavy thread a few posts up has some images and text that might just alleviate these concerns of yours, at least for DoS
"After all, I believe that legends and myths are largely made of 'truth', and indeed present aspects of it that can only be received in this mode; and long ago certain truths and modes of this kind were discovered and must always reappear." Professor Tolkien, 1951
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Elessar
Valinor
Nov 7 2013, 3:35pm
Post #30 of 69
(392 views)
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I trust pj but I do have some worry that Gandalf will be bested by something that isn't quite on his level. I can roll with the Witch-king in the EE but any of the others not so much.
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Faleel
Rohan
Nov 7 2013, 4:01pm
Post #31 of 69
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you stick with one thread please?
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Imladris18
Lorien
Nov 7 2013, 5:02pm
Post #32 of 69
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No one views threads by activity, unfortunately.
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Since it falls of the "created by" front page, new threads of the same topic are allowed. 
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Bombadil
Half-elven
Nov 7 2013, 5:13pm
Post #33 of 69
(354 views)
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Over the Fate
of any Wizard...
Bomby likes
Movies & Books?
Bomby also likes
Short Posts
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RosieLass
Valinor
Nov 7 2013, 5:25pm
Post #34 of 69
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I don't think AO is claiming he needs to be invincible.
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Just that he doesn't need Galadriel galloping to his rescue every time he gets into a fix.
He is one of the Maiar. Galadriel is just an elf with a ring.
"BOTH [political] extremes are dangerous. But more dangerous are team fanboys who think all the extremists are on the OTHER side." (CNN reader comment)
It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)
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Faleel
Rohan
Nov 7 2013, 5:26pm
Post #35 of 69
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.....who "trained" with an Maiar ;)
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Arannir
Valinor
Nov 7 2013, 5:30pm
Post #36 of 69
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I have never come across a casual viewer who did not automatically assume that Gandalf was a enormous power.
Noone of those casual viewers even thought of any power order or that he might be inferior to Galadriel (whom to many is kind of an enigma when it comes to power status but simply not present enough to really care about).
So though I enjoy the enthusiasm for the mythology, I think much of this is a highly theoretical discussion among us lore fans.
“All good stories deserve embellishment."
Praise is subjective. And so is criticism.
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Imladris18
Lorien
Nov 7 2013, 5:52pm
Post #37 of 69
(326 views)
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The ones who are even going to think of the "power hierarchy" are generally the ones who either know the lore already, or are emerging fans who soon will find out due to digging deeper into Tolkien's works anyways. OR, they will remain casuals and not even think twice about it.
(This post was edited by Imladris18 on Nov 7 2013, 5:57pm)
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dormouse
Half-elven
Nov 7 2013, 5:58pm
Post #38 of 69
(326 views)
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But he never mentioned Galadriel...
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So I don't see how she comes into it this time.
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Dame Ioreth
Tol Eressea
Nov 7 2013, 7:34pm
Post #39 of 69
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There are cannons at Dol Guldur?
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And SPJ is going to mess with them? How? Will he spike the cannons so they blow up when Sauron (shhhh you mean the Necromancer! Sorry, Precious...) tries to use them? Take about an unexpected party... no wait, that was the first movie...
So SPJ messes with the cannons, spikes them and they blow up and that causes Smaug's desolation. I'd be desolated too!
Oh my gracious! I can see why there is all this worry!
And here I thought gun powder started with that berserker orc in TT...
 
Where there's life there's hope, and need of vittles.
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings
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imin
Valinor
Nov 7 2013, 7:48pm
Post #40 of 69
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They have changed loads of things in the story and back history of M-e, adding lots of non canon stuff. And yet you still liked the film, which to me, means even though you may not agree with the changes made, you can still enjoy the film regardless which is probably what will happen this time as well i bet 
'What's the matter with you?' - J.R.R. Tolkien
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RosieLass
Valinor
Nov 7 2013, 8:46pm
Post #41 of 69
(258 views)
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He does say:
If they aren't careful they will make him look like he cannot get out of any supernatural fix on his own,
And it's Galadriel that the scriptwriters have put forward as the "most powerful" being in Middle-earth.
Anyway, that was just an example. Gandalf shouldn't repeatedly need rescuing. By anybody.
"BOTH [political] extremes are dangerous. But more dangerous are team fanboys who think all the extremists are on the OTHER side." (CNN reader comment)
It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)
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Bernhardina
Rohan
Nov 7 2013, 9:21pm
Post #42 of 69
(252 views)
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I cannot even imagine that PJ would Think that letting Gandalf wait out a battle in a cell is a good idea. Don't worry, I am sure he will stick to the lore and stay true to the character
Boromir: ONE DOES NOT SIMPLY WALK INTO MORDOR...
Gandalf: FLY, YOU FOOLS!
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AinurOlorin
Half-elven
Nov 7 2013, 9:45pm
Post #43 of 69
(237 views)
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That would make sense and would be perfectly fine (so long as he still escapes to warn the Council, rather
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than them just showing up, Radagast tipped or no, to rescue him. What makes it such an amazing feat is that he manages to get out at all without having to be rescued by the cavalry. The text is clear: he discovered Sauron's identity and escaped, though with great difficulty, and warned the Council of their peril, NOT: he discovered Sauron, was trapped, and thank Eru the Council made a surprise appearance when they did.  
However, to your Sauron comment, I have been cool with and hoping for exactly that all along. That they are shown to hold their own against The Nazgul, but when Sauron himself enters, the tables are turned over on them, and they have to beat a swift retreat.
I just cringe at the false notion of Gandalf being whipped out and having his backside tanned by the Nazgul alone, or of him failing to escape by the end of Desolation and NOT being the one who alerts the Council. I would hate for Gandalf's rescue to be played like him rescuing the Dwarves or Dumbldore rescuing the badly overmatched Harry Potter in Order of THe Pheonix.   ...
I might also add that I could see that his imprisonment (if it happens) might happen because of his and Radagast's surprise that it is not just the Nazgul (which they should know after the High Fells) but also Sauron. They were maybe prepared to take on the Witchking, but when the powers of the Nine are joined and enhanced via the presence of their Master that would be a whole different matter they simply did not expect.
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"
"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
(This post was edited by AinurOlorin on Nov 7 2013, 9:48pm)
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AinurOlorin
Half-elven
Nov 7 2013, 9:56pm
Post #44 of 69
(228 views)
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I hear what you are saying, though I submit that the fall in Moria, and the swats and batterings
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he took from the Balrog would have killed just about any mortal in an instant. I've always lamented that we didn't see a touch more of The Balrog's sorcerous power as well. Quiet as its kept, the demon was a master of terrible magical abilities, just from what we see in Marzabul. Gandalf makes short work of the goblin king, which would put his physical power at least as good as many mortal warriors.
But a dragon is beyond him, and the strongest orc heroes can match him.
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"
"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
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AinurOlorin
Half-elven
Nov 7 2013, 10:14pm
Post #45 of 69
(228 views)
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*Kisses Shagrat's face, feet and hands*, I don't care if you are an orc. lol. Yes, it could be a misleading pic,
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and it isn't absolute proof that we are out of the mirk drowned wood, but it DOES give me hope, especially with the lego set also taken into consideration. This points more to a scenario where Gandalf enters alone (we see Radagast turn back before the gate in one of the trailers, and there were old reports of Gandalf telling him to wait behind and come in alongside, or something like that), discovers Sauron, puts up a hell of a fight (hopefully), but is eventually bested and captured (Dear God Eru DON'T let it be by just orcs and Nazgul!!!!!!!!!!), at some point Radagast (I would love it if, as with Aragorn and Frodo in the Fellowship cannon, he sees the flaring manifestations of Gandalf locked in combat from afar), Radagast returns and they fight their way out together.
That I am actually pretty good with IF it works out something like that. It isn't perfect, but there is something more agreeable and less innappropriate for the humble seeming Radagast to get to show forth something of his power and the pair of them putting forth sufficient strength to escape Dol Guldur, than for Gandalf to be left languishing, seemingly helpless, until Saruman or Galadriel shows up with "superior" power and commences to do all the heavy lifting he couldn't relegating him to being analagous to Bilbo and the Dwarves when he shows up and does things which are beyond their power.
WHERE DID YOU GET THESE, by the way?! The guides are out and I don't have em!!!??? THAT shall soon be remedied! lol The image and caption on this scan would suggest that Gandalf does indeed escape Dol Guldur with Radagast:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/86158434@N02/10723924153/
It remains to be seen if it does happen, but it's something at least.
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"
"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
(This post was edited by AinurOlorin on Nov 7 2013, 10:20pm)
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Silverlode
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Nov 7 2013, 11:06pm
Post #46 of 69
(210 views)
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when we actually force convince people to post everything on one topic in one big thread, we then get a rash of people finding excuses to post new threads for fear their Very Important Point will get lost in the big thread. If you've already said your piece on a subject then feel free to pass subsequent repeat conversations by. They'll be new to somebody.
Silverlode
"Dark is the water of Kheled-zâram, and cold are the springs of Kibil-nâla, and fair were the many-pillared halls of Khazad-dűm in Elder Days before the fall of mighty kings beneath the stone."
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AinurOlorin
Half-elven
Nov 7 2013, 11:23pm
Post #47 of 69
(207 views)
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Agreed. The Gandalf as despreate prisoner thing has already been done in Fellowship, they really
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don't need to duplicate EVERYTHING from the other trilogy (wrong movie to put it in anyway if we are going for a film to film synchronization), if it is going to be done to the detriment of characters and in direct contradiction to the cannon. Even setting the power issue aside, Gandalf as a prison-cliffhanger just does not work.
We know for sure he will make it, even the most ignorant moviegoer will know.
They will already have to pull the reveal of Sauron off as nicely as possible, so it will be a great cinematic moment despite the fact that most people will have realized long ago.
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"
"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
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AinurOlorin
Half-elven
Nov 7 2013, 11:38pm
Post #48 of 69
(201 views)
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I hope the hopeful news proves true. Thanks for the share. *hugs Aitieuriskon, hisses at Voronwe* lol
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A spoiler-heavy thread a few posts up has some images and text that might just alleviate these concerns of yours, at least for DoS
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"
"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
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AinurOlorin
Half-elven
Nov 7 2013, 11:42pm
Post #49 of 69
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Ha. Good poem. Reminds me of Shel Silverstein's about the nighttime Whatifs. However...
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If you hold out your hand to dance and the partner tells you, "such lovely hands... to bad they are going to be ruined by callouses once I make you mine and put you on full time cleaning duty... I can't stand a dusty house!!!", and there is no glint of jest in the eyes... you might want to consider things carefully. lol
There is a record that shows Peter sometimes beats his Wizards, so, I am leery. lol
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"
"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
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AinurOlorin
Half-elven
Nov 8 2013, 12:43am
Post #50 of 69
(195 views)
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Agreed. And I want to be careful here, because... well for one thing the comparative
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power of the two isn't the main point of the thread, though it does relate. And I don't want to lambast or hate on Galadriel. I love Galadriel, she is awesome and should be portrayed as powerful. But she should not be eclipsing the Wizards. I would have a serious problem with seeing her portrayed almost as Varda, to whom even other, less mighty Ainur must give account, or as Melain in the fullness of her power in Arda, as compared to the Wizards who are limited by the forms they have taken. Absolutely he should not be made to come across as the most impotent of the supernatural Powers. Just that he doesn't need Galadriel galloping to his rescue every time he gets into a fix.
He is one of the Maiar. Galadriel is just an elf with a ring.
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"
"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
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Bomby does not lose Sleep
[
