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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The courtesy of our hall is somewhat lessened of late. (Admin Announcement, ALL PLEASE READ)
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Tol Eressea

Jun 30 2013, 4:46pm

Post #76 of 91 (5703 views)
Well those posters [In reply to] Can't Post

should search other forums, because the mood and general preference from many on torn is to be very sympathetic towards jackson and his films. Unlike other places, which are much more critical. Even now, with mre criticism than say, last year, the philosophy is still the same.

I am not proclaiming it should change, torn has had connections with the films, that naturally, create a more intimate relationship that can lead to a less critical stance.

Despite recent criticisms, torn is still very friendly.

Obviously no one is going to lose their jobs or get hurt, lol, but people can get pushed away.

I make mine Geordies words, as she makes mine, hers.

As for humour, sometimes yes, if you are in the mood.

But sometimes i feel as if the humour is used as a sort of attempt to keep "positivity" on.Thats fine for some, but not for others.

Who knows, how these matters will evolve ...


Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


Jun 30 2013, 5:37pm

Post #77 of 91 (5680 views)
well this forum is certainly the politest [In reply to] Can't Post

I have ever seen.
It makes me feel like I am Lurtz gatecrashing a Ladies cake and tea party, it makes me feel like I have just grabbed one of the ladies pet pooches, put it between two pieces of delicately cut bread, and devoured it. While one of the ladymods thwacks me on my shins with a lace parasol. Sometimes I feel like an Oik Orc of the first degree.



Jun 30 2013, 7:13pm

Post #78 of 91 (5637 views)
psst.... [In reply to] Can't Post

...geordie's a 'he'.

Forum Admin / Moderator

Jul 1 2013, 5:59am

Post #79 of 91 (5726 views)
Well, what I'm hearing lately (general response) [In reply to] Can't Post

is a remarkably equal number of complaints from both sides. The people who didn't like the movie feel they're being shouted down by those who did. Those who liked the movie feel that those who didn't are determined not to let anyone else enjoy it either. Both sides complain that they can't say how they feel without being told how wrong they are. Everyone thinks the Hobbit board is toxic because of everyone else, and nobody seems to think that they themselves are contributing to this atmosphere. We have lots of pots and kettles milling around right now.

What we need is a little more allowance on both sides for people to hold differing opinions. You do not have to balance out anyone else or their opinions. Agree to disagree and move on. If you try to make things "even", all that happens is that both sides jump on each other at every opportunity, until it becomes a feud of retaliation. People who didn't like the movie can never say so without someone who did telling them why they are wrong, and people who liked the movie never get to just enjoy it without having all of its "flaws" pointed out to them. If you don't think someone should get to just state the opposite opinion and have it stand without being "corrected" or "balanced", then you are part of the problem because you are making them feel jumped on, persecuted, etc, and they're likely to turn around and do the same to you. How do you feel when someone cannot let your opinion stand without "correction"? If you see something that you disagree with and just have to respond, ask yourself why. Are you wanting a conversation exploring/explaining your differences, or are you trying to "fix" the the other person? Conversation is fine, fixing is not. Nobody likes being "fixed" (especially on a matter of opinion about a work of fiction) and those who try to fix others, even with the best of motives, invariably come across as arrogant and aggressive.

Try treating people as individuals, which they are, instead of part of some monolithic "side". There are no fan unions here, just individuals sitting behind different computer screens scattered all over the world. Each one agrees with some people on some points and disagrees with some people on some points. It's a spectrum of opinions without a hard dividing line, and nobody should be held "responsible" for an opinion expressed by someone else. I've seen a lot of that lately, people assigning "sides" and feeling that talking to one person on that side is the equivalent of talking to all of them. It's not, especially on these boards where a large number of people read threaded. Each post is a direct response to a single person, not a group response to the whole thread. If you mean to respond generally, you'd better make that clear, because otherwise the person your post is listed as replying to is going to take everything you said as directed at them personally. If you respond to someone with a different opinion, expect disagreement. Debate is fine, as long as it's civil and respectful. Show respect for the person even if you don't respect their opinion. A lot of the bad feeling lately is the result of people feeling that they or someone they like (including the filmmakers) is being personally disrespected, as opposed to simply disagreeing with a thing they've done or said.

The mods are not interested in taking sides (we have many differing views on the movie among ourselves) but we are available to everyone and absolutely interested in making these boards a place where everyone can converse without hostility.

Repeat after me: Live and let live. It's only a movie.


"Dark is the water of Kheled-zram, and cold are the springs of Kibil-nla, and fair were the many-pillared halls of Khazad-dm in Elder Days before the fall of mighty kings beneath the stone."

Superuser / Moderator

Jul 1 2013, 11:54am

Post #80 of 91 (5588 views)
Ditto [In reply to] Can't Post

I was going to add similar comments. But, you beat me too it and said it much better than I could, as usual. Smile

From the comments in this sub-thread, and other recent ones on Hobbit and Feedback, it seems the Hobbit board is pretty well-balanced, and I think that's a good and healthy place for it to be: a place where both sides can enjoy discussions not only with people with whom they agree (that can get monotonous pretty quickly), but with those who have differing opinions. The only thing I'd add to what you said is that the last thing people should do is let themselves get annoyed or angry, of all things, at someone else because their opinion differs from theirs. To coin a phrase, no one can make you feel annoyed or angered by their personal opinion without your permission. People should give themselves permission to enjoy the diversity of opinions on the Hobbit board right now, not feel frustrated or annoyed by them (unless, of course, someone is violating the Terms of Service, in which case PM your friendly Admin). Smile

Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.

"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase

(This post was edited by Altaira on Jul 1 2013, 11:56am)


Jul 1 2013, 5:01pm

Post #81 of 91 (5601 views)
What I take issue with... [In reply to] Can't Post

Is that the professional complainers re-complain the same points because those threads sink out of sight, and new ones take their place, affording them the gleeful opportunity to re-complain.

Eowyn of Penns Woods

Jul 1 2013, 5:53pm

Post #82 of 91 (5570 views)
*sigh* So many opportunities [In reply to] Can't Post

for deploying this golden oldie these days, but I must behave because NuTORn isn't the old boards. =)


Not a TORns*b!
Certified Curmudgeon
Knitting Knerd
NARF: NWtS Chapter Member since June 17,2011

Forum Admin / Moderator

Jul 1 2013, 7:24pm

Post #83 of 91 (6416 views)
I love that. [In reply to] Can't Post

It never gets old because it's always true. I think it could stand an occasional appearance. Wink


"Dark is the water of Kheled-zram, and cold are the springs of Kibil-nla, and fair were the many-pillared halls of Khazad-dm in Elder Days before the fall of mighty kings beneath the stone."


Oct 29 2013, 7:46pm

Post #84 of 91 (5478 views)
I wanted to repeat myself here. [In reply to] Can't Post

Because this thread still has some relevance, as still there seem to be some who think the boards are biased in a positive way and others who think too much complaining is going on.

I commented on it in one thread as I found myself on both sides over the last months and weeks and wanted to contribute that in this thread that sticks for a while, while other threads may sink down swiftly :)

It always saddens me when posts and threads get unneccessarily confrontational (although I am sure sometimes to blame myself).

Can't we all discuss the pros and cons of those books and movies without having to tell others they either did not "get Tolkien" or did not "get filmmaking" (whatever both of them mean or whoever thinks he or she can be a judge of that, anyways)? Or even go down the path of calling others "haters" or "fanboys"?

It is funny that on one board I am active on I was sometimes "attacked" for being too critical towards the movies (especially LotR) and should try to think more as a filmmaker, while on TORN I even got messages asking me how on earth I could perceive myself as someone who respects Tolkien if I defend choices made in both LotR and TH. Well, because I do not view either one as sacred... and do not dismiss the fact that Tolkien himself and his works should and could be open to criticism as well, just as PJ's work.

A dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of mens imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold. J.R.R. Tolkien

Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.


Nov 6 2013, 1:47pm

Post #85 of 91 (5335 views)
I've noticed... [In reply to] Can't Post

....that people have been especially mean to Tauriel and Azog, and they aren't even around to defend themselves.

Smeagol Bagginsess

Nov 7 2013, 5:57am

Post #86 of 91 (5286 views)
I dont understand what you mean by [In reply to] Can't Post

Being mean to Tauriel or Azog. If people dislike them, I believe it is their right to voice their concerns as much as they want.

And 2 locked threads in a day. Wow, things have gone heated.


Nov 7 2013, 9:35am

Post #87 of 91 (5392 views)
Don't mind me [In reply to] Can't Post

It was just sarcasm.

Registered User

Dec 6 2013, 10:11pm

Post #88 of 91 (5208 views)
Courtesy in all things [In reply to] Can't Post

I am VERY new to this particular forum, so cannot comment about any untoward behaviors here. BUT I have noted on other sites (not Tolkien-related) that there is tendency toward unseemly behavior -- at times, there have even been what I can only call crude and rude comments (crass also comes to mind) -- for no reason. People can be very wed to their opinions about things or other people -- and while I wore a USN uniform for many years and took an oath to protect and defend the constitution (and hence the freedom of speech etc.) -- we all need to be courteous and respectful in our dealings with others. Some of the things I have seen on other sites left me aghast -- not only at what was written -- but that it was written on so public a forum to begin with.

So -- from a newbie -- courtesy and respect should be bywords for all.


Clarella Hardbottom

Tol Eressea

Dec 6 2013, 10:52pm

Post #89 of 91 (5579 views)
Welcome, Clarella! [In reply to] Can't Post

You will find TORn in general a safe and courteous place to hang out. This thread was a reminder to all of us what standard of interaction is expected here, and the Terms of Service and these guidelines ensure that discussion usually remains civil compared to some other websites, largely thanks to the Moderators who keep us honest. We do not always agree, and discussion and emotion can be intense, but name calling, foul language and trolling are watched carefully by the ever-vigilant team of admins. If such things appear, they are removed, and if someone continues after warnings, he or she is asked to leave. Some posters object to that level of oversight, but it is what makes this forum much more pleasant than the average, IMHO.

If you ever have a question about a particular post, you can send a private message to one of the moderators if you check "Who's Online" above, or a quicker way is to mention it on the Feedback forum where a moderator will look into it very quickly, indeed. I learned a lot from Silverlode's essay on TORnetiquette and try to keep Item 13 in mind at all times, though I sometimes fail and need a reminder like yours today to go back and read it again. (Thanks again, Silverlode.)

I'd say that there is very little shocking behaviour on TORn - unless it is that not everybody agrees with me on everything!Laugh

See you around the boards!


(This post was edited by Lissuin on Dec 6 2013, 10:55pm)


Feb 14 2014, 12:31am

Post #90 of 91 (5147 views)
Is it possible [In reply to] Can't Post

...to get some sort of a reminder post on The Hobbit forums about being respectful, etc? The level of courtesy seems to be degrading rapidly, particularly in threads of certain topics Unsure

keep smiling Smile

Forum Admin / Moderator

Feb 18 2014, 5:50pm

Post #91 of 91 (9397 views)
Thanks - sorry for the belated reply [In reply to] Can't Post

We do post reminders and try to monitor the message boards to determine when a new reminder is timely. We usually aim for expected periods of high traffic - the Blu Ray/DVD release, new trailers, movie openings, etc.

In addition, we watch the threads and put in courtesy reminders when we think the conversation is becoming too heated. Of course we don't see everything, but with admins scattered literally across the world, we get pretty good coverage.

Of course, if you see a particular thread that is turning nasty, don't feel bad about contacting an Admin. We're always glad for the help! You can do it via PM if you would prefer.

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