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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Why is it that the thought of Arwen battling it out at Helm's Deep....
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ecthelionsbeard
Lorien

Oct 31 2013, 3:09am

Post #1 of 27 (1193 views)
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Why is it that the thought of Arwen battling it out at Helm's Deep.... Can't Post

makes me want to throw up in my mouth, only after recovering from a cringe induced coma. Yet, the thought of Galadriel showing up at Dol Guldor, all decked out in battle armor, gives me fan-gasms?


(This post was edited by ecthelionsbeard on Oct 31 2013, 3:10am)


Mooseboy018
Gondor


Oct 31 2013, 3:53am

Post #2 of 27 (659 views)
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Because Galadriel is cooler than Arwen. [In reply to] Can't Post

Wink

Actually I don't know... But I sort of feel the same way to be honest. Maybe it feels less forced. Not necessarily the best idea (depending on execution), but still... not nearly as forced as Arwen at Helm's Deep.


MatthewJer18
Rohan

Oct 31 2013, 4:06am

Post #3 of 27 (670 views)
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Maybe because Galadriel actually was at Dol Guldur? [In reply to] Can't Post

 


ecthelionsbeard
Lorien

Oct 31 2013, 4:08am

Post #4 of 27 (669 views)
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Canon aside... [In reply to] Can't Post

I still feel this way. And I don't know why.


HiddenSpring
Lorien

Oct 31 2013, 4:38am

Post #5 of 27 (623 views)
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Because, with apologies to Arwen, Galadriel is a badass [In reply to] Can't Post

Giving the finger to the Valar and Fëanor simultaneously; fighting in Alqualondë to protect her mother's kin; crossing the goddamn Helcaraxë without so much as a complaint; messing with Annatar's head in the Second Age; making Sauron afraid like a little boy in the Third Age; shaping the most beautiful realm in Middle-earth, and governing it with none of the pomp and circumstance of the Noldor but among the trees, Silvan style; being Gandalf's obvious favorite; being the thorn in Saruman's side; creeping the hell out of Frodo with her naked ambition; passing the test, diminishing and going to the West, all the while remaining Galadriel; and last but not least, bringing Dol Guldur to the ground with only her native powers at her disposition.

Just a few of the reasons why Galadriel in Dol Guldur should be a magnificent sight.


Lieutenant of Dol Guldur
Gondor


Oct 31 2013, 9:19am

Post #6 of 27 (506 views)
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Hopefully she's not too overpowering [In reply to] Can't Post

I think it's almost official that we'll see her in action BUT hopefully she's not that powerful that she can fight hundreds of enemies on her own. After all she is not Sauron. Her forces are mainly to protect her people and not to attack or destroy enemy fortresses. So hopefully she won't create thunders, tornados or earthquakes. She's an Elf but not an Istari. I could imagine that she'll use some kind of water because Nenya is the "Ring of Water".

I can go with her saving Gandalfs life but even if Tolkien wrote that she did destroy Dol Guldur almost single handed I can't imagine Peter Jackson to show us a allmighty Galadriel...

"There is only one Lord of the Ring, only one who can bend it to his will. And he does not share power."


TheHutt
Gondor


Oct 31 2013, 9:50am

Post #7 of 27 (506 views)
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Because Arwen is basically a crybaby... [In reply to] Can't Post

Apart from the ride with Frodo in FOTR, she does nothing but cry in the whole rest of the trilogy.

Russian LOTR & Hobbit Site: Henneth-Annun.ru


Glorfindela
Valinor


Oct 31 2013, 11:57am

Post #8 of 27 (428 views)
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Perhaps [In reply to] Can't Post

It may be partly because Liv Tyler is just not a good actress? Cate Blanchett is a better actress and could probably pull off the Dol Guldor scenario you are suggesting.


In Reply To
makes me want to throw up in my mouth, only after recovering from a cringe induced coma. Yet, the thought of Galadriel showing up at Dol Guldor, all decked out in battle armor, gives me fan-gasms?



Wayward
The Shire


Oct 31 2013, 2:08pm

Post #9 of 27 (362 views)
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On an unrealistic note... [In reply to] Can't Post

I would certainly be more intimidated if Cate Blanchett demanded my wallet in a dark alley than if Liv Tyler did the same thing.


Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Oct 31 2013, 3:18pm

Post #10 of 27 (332 views)
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Because Galadriel was actually supposed to be there [In reply to] Can't Post

Here's a link to the page of a LotR Wiki that describes what happened http://lotr.wikia.com/...Battle_of_Dol_Guldur

I really hope the movie portrays this well because it sounds totally epic!HeartSmileHeart

My favorite speech from the entire LOTR series: Sam:“It’s like in the great stories Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger they were, and sometimes you didn’t want to know the end, because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was after so much bad had happened? But in the end, it’s only a passing thing, this shadow. Even darkness must pass. A new day will come and when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer. Those are the stories that stayed with you, that meant something, even if you were too small to understand why. But I think, Mr. Frodo, I do understand, I know now. Folk in those stories had lots of chances at turning back, only they didn’t. They kept going because they were holding on to something.” Frodo: “What are we holding on to, Sam?” Sam: “That there’s some good in this world, Mr. Frodo, and it’s worth fighting for!”


sycorax82
Rohan

Oct 31 2013, 3:18pm

Post #11 of 27 (356 views)
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In hindsight I wish she HAD fought at Helm's Deep [In reply to] Can't Post

I would much rather had that than the whole 'Arwen is dying' rubbish, which really drags the storyline down. Some of the worst things about TTT and ROTK are connected to that story, e.g. Aragorn going over the cliff.


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea


Oct 31 2013, 3:28pm

Post #12 of 27 (319 views)
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I wouldn't say that... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
It may be partly because Liv Tyler is just not a good actress? Cate Blanchett is a better actress and could probably pull off the Dol Guldor scenario you are suggesting.


Cate Blanchett may have more range, and be more capable of playing "powerful" more easily, but that doesn't mean that Liv Tyler is "bad" per se. I like Liv Tyler, and think she's always believable in what she does. And she does have a sort of power in LotR, and plays an elf quite well-- i'm especially thinking of when she first arrives in FotR. I was quite skeptical of her casting initially, but she instantly won me over, and was quite powerful in those scenes in Fellowship. It's a shame she was relegated to "girlfriend" status for the rest of the series, but such is the character i suppose (and i guess she has Glorfindle to thank for the scenes she did get).

But yes, i am looking forward to seeing Galadriel display her power at Dol Guldur.


DanielLB
Immortal


Oct 31 2013, 4:47pm

Post #13 of 27 (292 views)
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(Apart from the canon issue...) [In reply to] Can't Post

In your opinion, would "Arwen battling it out at Helm's Deep" removed the issue of her being a "crybaby"?

I've never looked at her like that before. Unimpressed



dormouse
Half-elven


Oct 31 2013, 5:14pm

Post #14 of 27 (282 views)
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Crybaby? Come off it! [In reply to] Can't Post

She cries once that I can think of, at a time when the odd tear has always seemed pretty reasonable to me. Otherwise Arwen is strong - strong enough to make her own decisions and accept the consequences of them, and that takes a lot more strength than haring off with a sword.


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Oct 31 2013, 5:21pm

Post #15 of 27 (274 views)
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Because joining a fight is out of character for Arwen [In reply to] Can't Post

who's just a fair, noble maiden, but in character for Galadriel who's an adventurer, pioneer and general all-around badass.

But every word you say today
Gets twisted 'round some other way
And they'll hurt you if they think you've lied


Darkstone
Immortal


Oct 31 2013, 5:53pm

Post #16 of 27 (245 views)
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Gastroparesis [In reply to] Can't Post

There is no cure. Please show courtesy to others by using mouthwash frequently and by not sitting behind other people during trilogy showings.

As for Galadriel, there's a reason Eärwen named her daughter Nerwen.

******************************************
That hobbit has a pleasant face,
His private life is a disgrace.
I really could not tell to you,
The awful things that hobbits do.
Things that your paper never prints
They only speak of them in hints.
They have such lost, degraded souls,
No wonder they inhabit holes;
When such depravity is found,
It only can live underground.
I really dare not name to you,
The awful things that hobbits do.


Darkstone
Immortal


Oct 31 2013, 5:58pm

Post #17 of 27 (242 views)
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All Elves are crybabies. [In reply to] Can't Post

Elves are not Vulcans! They're manic-depressives who swear blood oaths to slay their kin one moment, then die of a broken heart the next!

******************************************
That hobbit has a pleasant face,
His private life is a disgrace.
I really could not tell to you,
The awful things that hobbits do.
Things that your paper never prints
They only speak of them in hints.
They have such lost, degraded souls,
No wonder they inhabit holes;
When such depravity is found,
It only can live underground.
I really dare not name to you,
The awful things that hobbits do.


Starling
Half-elven


Oct 31 2013, 6:00pm

Post #18 of 27 (245 views)
Shortcut
Which brings to mind this quote: [In reply to] Can't Post

"You don't have to put a sword in her hand to make her strong."
I remember Liv Tyler saying it in the EE extras somewhere. Maybe it came from a conversation she had with Phillipa Boyens (I'm dredging through the memory banks here).

I think Arwen shows enormous strength.


Arannir
Valinor


Oct 31 2013, 6:08pm

Post #19 of 27 (229 views)
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She does. [In reply to] Can't Post

She really does. Her flashforward in TTT at Aragorn's grave remains one of my favourite scenes of the trilogy. Just beautiful.

LT pulled her off beautifully imho and she was written nicely.

Still glad though she did not show up at HD.

I loved Haldir and his Elves in HD, if only to hint to the War of the Ring in the Northern theatre.



“A dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of men’s imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold.” J.R.R. Tolkien

Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.


Darkstone
Immortal


Oct 31 2013, 7:55pm

Post #20 of 27 (213 views)
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People seem to object most... [In reply to] Can't Post

....when Arwen breaks down at the Bruinen over "an anonymous hobbit".

Personally, I've found more than a few injured anonymous creatures by the road or in the woods, and then tried my darndest to get them somewhere someone could help. Hard to imagine anyone who wouldn't be even a little bit misty-eyed when it became obvious the little thing wouldn't make it. Especially, say, a "noble lady".

******************************************
That hobbit has a pleasant face,
His private life is a disgrace.
I really could not tell to you,
The awful things that hobbits do.
Things that your paper never prints
They only speak of them in hints.
They have such lost, degraded souls,
No wonder they inhabit holes;
When such depravity is found,
It only can live underground.
I really dare not name to you,
The awful things that hobbits do.


dormouse
Half-elven


Oct 31 2013, 8:07pm

Post #21 of 27 (203 views)
Shortcut
Well, yes.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Never occurred to me that anyone would object to that. Presumably said people have never witnessed the death of something small and frail they'd done their level best to save...


dubulous
Rohan

Oct 31 2013, 10:05pm

Post #22 of 27 (173 views)
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Same [In reply to] Can't Post

But then we know that Galadriel a.) actually does kick ass even according to the books and, b.) let's face it, she would look fierce doing it.


TheHutt
Gondor


Oct 31 2013, 11:22pm

Post #23 of 27 (152 views)
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Yeah, because it's uncalled for... [In reply to] Can't Post

She just met the little guy, and the way Frodo looks at the time he's unlikely to cause any maternal instincts.

Russian LOTR & Hobbit Site: Henneth-Annun.ru


dormouse
Half-elven


Oct 31 2013, 11:34pm

Post #24 of 27 (142 views)
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How can it be uncalled for? [In reply to] Can't Post

She's just ridden miles through Black Riders to save him. Did you expect her to shrug her shoulders at that point, drop him and ride back home for supper?


Bladerunner
Gondor


Oct 31 2013, 11:34pm

Post #25 of 27 (136 views)
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And also include.... [In reply to] Can't Post

shrouding the lands near Dol Guldur in white mist to provide cover for Eorl's army when he came to the aid of Cirion of Gondor thus shaping the future histories of Gondor and Rohan.


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